Hotels General Discussion

[Zeock]

I thought it was Sir Algenon?

One for the Merlin Typos/Grammatical Errors Thread.

 

[AstroDan]

Are you suggesting that Alton should lower their prices or Phantasialand should raise theirs ?

I don't understand this discussion at all. It's like you're all just discovering how capitalism works. If you rub two sticks together, you'll get fire, btw.

I think you're totally missing the wider point.

There is a significant issue with regards to the price-performance ratio of the hotels.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

 

[Rick]

I think you're totally missing the wider point.

There is a significant issue with regards to the price-performance ratio of the hotels.

How is that reflected in the occupancy rate ? They're an absolute zoo every time I stay.

 

[jon81uk]

How is that reflected in the occupancy rate ? They're an absolute zoo every time I stay.

It's reflected in the Tripadvisor scores. I would also expect the amount of repeat visits is down.

 

[Rick]

It's reflected in the Tripadvisor scores. I would also expect the amount of repeat visits is down.

You might be right, but I don't see any evidence of that - either people are returning, or they aren't and there is a stack of other families waiting in the wings to come for the first time.

Or, more likely - a hybrid of the two.

 

[AstroDan]

You might be right, but I don't see any evidence of that - either people are returning, or they aren't and there is a stack of other families waiting in the wings to come for the first time.

Or, more likely - a hybrid of the two.

Are you saying that because they're busy, service vs price point is literally irrelevant?

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

 

[Alsty]

The term I'd use to describe quality vs. price is value for money.

For example, a stay at Europa-Park or Phantasialand has a high price but the quality on offer is also good. If you stay at a Premier Inn then the quality of experience is lower but so is the price, so it's perfectly acceptable. However when you stay at the Alton Towers Resort, you pay a high price but the quality of the accommodation, service, food and everything is poor which results in a poor value for money experience*.

Unfortunately it's not always possible to see if something is bad value for money until you've experienced it. Maybe that is why the place is busy with, presumably, first time visitors.

* I'd actually say the experience is signficantly poorer than staying at a Premier Inn

 

[GaryH]

I would say a lot of visits made to the hotels are done by :

A) the very wealthy who don’t really care how bad it is
B) those who know what it’s like but managed to get a cheaper rate either by sale or pass discount
C) those who have never stayed before and believe what the website tells them

I would say there are very few who know what it’s like and make repeat visits now. Unless the price is incredibly cheap. For example years ago I would stay in Splash Landings for £99 when the rate would appear knowing what the hotel was like.

Problem is now for me anyway it’s not just the quality of the actual hotel stay, but the restaurants and bar experience too. Quite frankly it’s embarrassing.

You have secret garden which is way overpriced and was very hit n miss what the food would be like at the best of times

Or Splash which I haven’t used for a few years, but where you pay beforehand and have whatever left overs are on the heated plates.

Or crooked spoon which has the ambiance of a canteen and you may or may not get served.

Then there’s the Dragon Bar with its 20 minute queue, or the same over in Splash.

If I’m paying that much to stay there I want at the very least :

1. Decent restaurants with good high quality food to justify the price I am paying

2. Table service at the bar areas so I don’t have to queue for ages

3. Good entertainment - especially in ATH and especially something for adults if you haven’t got the kids with you later in the evening.


Get these right and get the hotel rooms up to scratch and I don’t mind paying the £300 or so a night to stay there.

A stay in ATH in particular used to be a magical experience, unmatched anywhere else in the UK. The service was excellent, the food was excellent, the little perks you for staying there were appreciated and I used to really look forward to my stay there. I have more excitement now staying in a travelodge in Ashburton than on site.

 

[Zeock]

I would say a lot of visits made to the hotels are done by :

A) the very wealthy who don’t really care how bad it is

I would have thought that that demographic would be the most likely to complain about a bad hotel as they would be used to far better standards elsewhere.

 

[Rick]

I would have thought that that demographic would be the most likely to complain about a bad hotel as they would be used to far better standards elsewhere.

I think it depends on the demographics of the group. If you're having a coupley weekend I think you're probably more prone to kick off than if you've taken your kids who are blind to a lot of things outlined in this thread and have a great time - that rubs off on parents hugely.

It's nothing to be proud of, but we Brits have pretty low standards on many fronts. We accept lowest common denominator standards on so many fronts and it feels like that is getting worse.

I stay in hotels 2 - 3 nights a week for work, I've never considered the AT hotels to be particularly bad - they're not my favourite, but they're fine. Arguably they are priced in a way that means they should be far better than fine but if people weren't coming (and keep coming) I think that there would be more action.

My last visit was 2 days one night with a day on park and a day in the spa - I honestly didn't have a right lot to complain about, my co-visitor didn't enjoy the breakfast, I don't eat meat so I can't really comment other than to say the cereal was sufficient.

 

[AstroDan]

What would help is if there was a not insignificant number of beds within the immediate villages and walkable.

Sadly, unlike many major resorts - that's not the case in Alton.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

 

[Rob]

Indeed, and that is one of the prime reasons as to why the hotels are often busy/full. There is no practical alternative, especially for families with younger children. Of course you could just not stay over at all and do a day trip, but I'd imagine a fair number of the people who stay over are coming from slightly further afield and one day is not an appealing/viable option.

Staying at Alton Towers in the past 5 years or so has been more of a convenience than any sort of treat/luxury. Sometimes you want a day on park where you can have a few drinks and not worry about driving. With prices continuing to rise I am far less likely to be staying over at the hotels.

 

[Matt.GC]

When you have 3 kids, you can't just book last minute budget flights to wherever you want and public transport your way around everywhere for a few hundred quid. So it's usually an annual or bi-annual foreign holiday costing thousands with car hire and including parks where there are enough rides that kids of different heights can enjoy.

So we've usually been quite lucrative business for Towers. Sometimes staying up to 3 times per year. I'd imagine this is their market, families who want a short beano away with the kids and want the convenience of staying on site even if it costs a lot to do so as they can't just up sticks and go anywhere as an alternative.

But even though I can afford these prices, I hate chucking good money away on crap. I only stayed once last year and for the first time we didn't bother eating on site other than the "delicious" breakfast and went off site for food. The bars were awful, so I managed 1 pint and then just cracked open a 10 pack I'd bought from Tesco and sat on the porch outside our EV room.

Oh and kids aren't stupid by the way. Although they don't notice all the finer details we discuss on here, they do fully notice the fact they can't get a drink when trying to enjoy the entertainment and that their sausages at the breakfast table taste disgusting.

The usual Scarefest family stay over was cancelled as a result of increasing prices for declining quality. I opted to go with just my son instead for the day at Scarefest, so leaving the house around 6am and getting back around 1am the following day.

We're looking for alternatives this year and I doubt I'll stay at all. No Nemesis with new Duel being the only draw so far, and judging by the food output at Chessington last year this Aramak nonsense alongside their outrageous price increases ticks another box in the reasons not to visit checklist so I may not even bother buying an AT pass. Including flights and car hire, a couple of days at Energylandia will probably work out not much more expensive than going to Scarefest for a couple of nights this year. We'll probably do some Premier Inn stays around the country, maybe a short break in Devon as well and take our business elsewhere.

Our regular stays over, particular Scarefest, date back to the days before the kids were even born and we've mostly had an excellent time. A tradition I'm sadly going to have to bin off at least for this year whilst things are like they are. Like this park has done so many times, they can deliver low value for short term financial gain and get away with it in the short term. But the price rises coupled with the really quite eye watering speed of the decline in quality has to have a breaking point. I'm not sure what that is yet, but I'm sure Merlin and hardened fans have got a Rishi Sunak style "to be fair on them" excuse list ready for when things go south. Just like we heard for the 4PM closes, the flat ride situation, the deteriation of the rapids, the food and bev closures, the up charge dungeon etc.

 

[mo237]

Just a follow up from my post yesterday (I couldn't price it up as the website was down).

Last April, three nights in a local B&B. Spacious room with authentic rustic decor, bathroom, cooked breakfast every morning, cosy fire to sit by in the evenings - plus the owners lovely dog. Within 10mins of the Resort by car, or a 30min walk through the woods. Cost a respectable £130.

This April, three nights in a Stargazing Pod. Cramped shed with no decor (not even a telly), have to share a bathroom with others, breakfast bap, no proper entertainment (unless you want your ears blasted in one of the Hotels), no dog. 5-10min walk to Monorail. Costs a hilarious £570.

Even worse if you want to stay in a properly equiped room - £780 for either of the main hotels.

Honestly - unless you get a ridiculous discount (which is unlikely) or the novelty of staying on site appeals to you, I honestly wouldn't bother with those prices. For a fraction of the cost you can get a really wholesome, personal experience at an independent place, with quality that far exceeds the Resort.

 

[kydog1299]

A very commonly known marketing principle is if your balance of retaining existing customers and acquiring new ones is off, you’ll fall into decline quickly. Relying on first-time visitors (acquisitions) to fuel your business growth is a recipe for disaster in my opinion. You’ll quickly run into the position where you’ve got a very small pool of customers to try to acquire.

For a business to grow, you need to keep hold of your existing customers (retention) whilst introducing new customers in (acquisition). It’s more expensive, not to mention a lot more tricky, to acquire new customers vs retain existing ones. No business wants to stand still and not grow. And another point- the higher/more expensive you perceive something to be, the more involved you are with the decision-making about whether to buy that product- aka, the more heavy of an information search you’ll go on; the more reviews you’ll use to help form your decision to spend. And the review aren’t exactly glowing.

You’re not exactly going to inspire that repeat patronage by delivering a bad experience. If you place all your emphasis on acquiring new customers and not caring about the experience to retain existing ones, their customer lifetime value will be abysmal too.

Particularly at the moment, consumers are looking for good value for money and businesses are upping their investment into value for money perception. Look at any business that’s never spoken about price before in their comms- they’re suddenly talking about it to customers and leads and doubling down to convince you what you get for your money is worthwhile. How do you convince someone that a hotel with a 3.5 star TripAdvisor rating with a £500+ a night price tag that there is value in parting ways with your cash? That price tag sets the precedent of your expectations- you’re expecting something worth £500, and if your perception after the experience is that it really isn’t worth £500, you’re not going to come back in a hurry, or at all. You’ll need to acquire more customers to sustain growth.

For a marketing-first, customer orientated business Merlin have sometimes professed to be, they really miss the mark with their marketing strategies.

 

[rob666]

Er...but Britannia are making an absolute packet out of third rate hotel experiences though.
Ever increasing sales and good profits...all from a very crap experience in an ancient Victorian hotel with dodgy facilities.
Merlin have realised they can fill their hotels with a third rate experience...why shrink the profit margins with something better, there will be a new generation of mugs around in a decade.

 

[Thameslink Rail]

I find it bizarre that 5 of their 6 latest Facebook posts are about accommodation and short breaks and all five of those posts have complaints about either price or cleanliness (including some from TS members).

 

[AT86]

Er...but Britannia are making an absolute packet out of third rate hotel experiences though.
Ever increasing sales and good profits...all from a very crap experience in an ancient Victorian hotel with dodgy facilities.
Merlin have realised they can fill their hotels with a third rate experience...why shrink the profit margins with something better, there will be a new generation of mugs around in a decade.

Britannia charge £29 for rooms, people will have more tolerance for a rubbish stay at that price point than they will for splashing £400 a night at the Alton Towers Hotel.

 

[rob666]

Britannia often charge five times that...to the unknowing and those with short notice/business bookings.

 

[kydog1299]

Britannia often charge five times that...to the unknowing and those with short notice/business bookings.

One look at the Britannia website and you can see buzzwords like ‘competitively priced’, ‘value for money’, ‘rooms without windows’. The reasons for your visit to a Britannia hotel will be completely different to ATH; they’ve built a brand knowing and owning that they’re basic and budget; they’re a convenience hotel, when all you care about is sleep. You expect that. I would strongly suspect that Britannia’s hotels, even if they are priced in the £££‘s for last minute stays, are still below that of their closest competitors and rivals. Similar to Travelodge- they might not be priced the cheapest but their brand image reflects budget anyway, and you know exactly what to expect thanks to their strong brand identity and the way they communicate that.

ATH are trying to build a brand which sets out this expectation:

Its extraordinary combination of splendiferous accommodation, quirky class and fantabulous eccentricity guarantees rocket-loads of giggles and glee for the whole family!

The hotel features the delightments of our bewitching Secret Garden Restaurant and our super-special Dragons Bar and Atrium.

The key difference with both- Britannia know they’re budget; they’re not trying to sell you something they aren’t. ATH- they’re trying to sell you something they aren’t. The copy is hyping up your expectations, in conjunction with the price point, then falling short at the actual delivery step.