Hotels General Discussion

[Squiggs]

I actually think it's brave management. You know there will be a lot of backlash but your still prepared to close it as the product isn't of the standard you want to portray.

Hopefully something better is planned. They need to look at Center Parcs for how a resort should be presented and ran.

The issue with this argument is that the Spa wasn't poor quality. By most measures, it was one of the better quality offerings within the resort. (Other than a couple of blips, like the shed-sauna addition, which was a very much in keeping with modern Merlin standards)

It is almost certain that whatever has led to the closure, it is based on spreadsheets and accounting rather than anything to do with the quality of the product.

 

[Jb85]

The issue with this argument is that the Spa wasn't poor quality. By most measures, it was one of the better quality offerings within the resort. (Other than a couple of blips, like the shed-sauna addition, which was a very much in keeping with modern Merlin standards)

It is almost certain that whatever has led to the closure, it is based on spreadsheets and accounting rather than anything to do with the quality of the product.

Now now accountants aren't that bad (says the CIMA qualified accountant)

For me it was of poor quality, but each to their own.

 

[Burner]

There’s a few posts popping up on towers street facebook from disgruntled ex spa staff members. Apparently some only got their contracts a few weeks ago while others were expecting to start this week and only just found out. Seems a bit of a snap decision which leads me to think something has broken or is damaged in the spa rendering it financially unviable to fix (at the moment).

What did I say last week?

Apparently they had hired people recently for the Spa, and then told them it's closing not long after and then said to look on the website to apply for other jobs.

Hearsay, but I fully believe it's something they'd do.

 

[Bert2theSpark]

If they have physio qualifications then offering other roles in the resort would be a significant drop in pay if they were to remain within the business, they might as well find a new job at that point that utilises their qualifications...

If I was a staff member with any external qualifications (Medical and HR come to mind immediately) then I'd be seriously be reconsidering my position.

 

[Dave]

The issue with this argument is that the Spa wasn't poor quality. By most measures, it was one of the better quality offerings within the resort. (Other than a couple of blips, like the shed-sauna addition, which was a very much in keeping with modern Merlin standards)

It is almost certain that whatever has led to the closure, it is based on spreadsheets and accounting rather than anything to do with the quality of the product.

Been in it twice and never really thought it was high quality. It was fine, but nothing special.

That’s not to advocate getting rid.

 

[Tom]

I know some people will jump on the Merlin bashing bandwagon, because it gets likes, but to be fair to Merlin, I think they will do their best to look after the staff who’ve lost their jobs at the Spa. If you speak to people who’ve worked for Merlin, they’ll generally tell you that Merlin are a good employer.

They’ve lobbied the government not to raise the minimum wage, because they want to provide as many jobs as possible, and they know that when the minimum wage goes up, they can’t provide as many jobs.

They hire a lot of 16 and 17 year olds, because they want to give people their first job and get them going in the workplace.

Most of their staff are on zero hour contracts, because they know that people like the flexibility.

If people turn up for work and the park’s quiet they’ll get sent home without any pay, because Merlin knows that people always enjoy a surprise day off.

A few times a year they’ll ask staff if they want to volunteer to come in on their day off for a four hour unpaid deep cleaning party. These are great ways for people who want to have a career with Merlin to stand out from the crowd, and at the end of the four hour unpaid deep cleaning party, managers will generously surprise the staff with some bags of free donuts.

They’ve outsourced a load of jobs at Aramark, because they know that people want a choice in who they work for.

They’ve slimmed down the management team, to give their frontline employees a chance to be more independent.

They deliberately don’t invite all the staff working for concessions to the staff parties, to make sure Merlin employees feel extra special.

They serve chicken nuggets and fries in the staff canteen every day, because they know that this is what young people like to eat.

They send managers around shouting at people to work faster, because it’s very motivational.

It’s their company policy not to call the police or support investigations when staff are assaulted, to make sure employees don’t have the trauma of going through a court case.

If staff are sick three times in a year they get a no re-hire status, to make sure people aren’t having to work with ill colleagues.

Unlike other parks that give staff their free tickets straight away, Merlin make staff wait for the end of their probationary period and for their manager to get round to giving them an appraisal. Staff appreciate the free tickets more if they get them half way through the season.

Merlin make sure their staff don’t have too much training or empowerment, because they don’t want to overburden staff with extra responsibility.

They constantly badger staff working on the rides to upsell Fast Track tickets, because they know that most workers relish the challenge.

When you look at the bigger picture, Merlin has a really strong track record as a top class employer. I expect the CEO is personally involved with mentoring the staff and giving them career advice.

In fact, some of the comments on here are a bit embarrassing. People obviously have no idea about the Merlin company culture. I’d say Merlin feels more like a big family than a workplace. I’m sure the CEO and the directors lie awake at night worrying about the staff they’ve let go. For them, getting rid of staff, is like getting rid of your gran.

You had me going there for the first few paragraphs! Great effort.

 

[siralgenon]

The issue with this argument is that the Spa wasn't poor quality. By most measures, it was one of the better quality offerings within the resort. (Other than a couple of blips, like the shed-sauna addition, which was a very much in keeping with modern Merlin standards)

It is almost certain that whatever has led to the closure, it is based on spreadsheets and accounting rather than anything to do with the quality of the product.

I can assure you the spa was poor quality, especially for a company the size of Towers.

As you can see from the previous posts it was dirty, lots of cracked tiles, the footbaths never worked, the steam room rarely worked, there was no seating when the conservatory was removed and the changing rooms were size of Harry Potters bedroom under the stairs.

At one time yes it was a better quality offering, but that was unfortunately 10+ years ago.

 

[Matt.GC]

Yeah I would agree and I think my posting history shows I do not fanboy the place but this is out of character even for Towers. Budget decisions are made months ahead and this is a sudden decision.

Plus nearly everything you reference occurred under the previous leadership so that has to be considered as well. Its like when everyone just knew Curse would be terrible because all the previous Merlin dark rides had been terrible, we are in too much of a state of flux with the new leadership and Lego ownership to make these correlations at present.

Just as well neither of us are sat in armchairs right now then. And that my own posting history shows that I'm clearly not a CEO. If I was, I'd be able to afford a far better armchair.

This is not at all out of character for Towers. Evidentially, closing stuff is what they do, and they've now been at it for years. But I would agree with you that the suddenness of the decision is somewhat unusual and interesting. Maybe they just didn't see the spa as part of their tacky, purple paint soaked, down-market future plans for the place? Then, a pipe burst, a ceiling tile fell down, or a water pump did a Burton and it gave them the excuse they needed to board the whole place up?

I'm not sure what "nearly everything" means when I only mentioned 2 things. Maybe half of that which is 1? Anyway, after over 4 whole years of new ownership, which reference I made are they incapable of controlling right now? 4 years is a long time in the private sector, and we should rightly be seeing results by now. If a company is so hamstrung after 4 years that they can't control the meat content of their burgers, can't prevent a check-in desk being ripped out and replaced by tablets, and can't run a bloody sauna, then they're either incomprehensibly incompetent..... or, dare I suggest, are possibly making these decisions on purpose?

It's been 4 years. How long are we expected to pretend that everything crap that happens is to be blamed on PLC Merlin, yet everything good that happens is totally down to the new "give them a chance" and "give them time" private Merlin?

 

[Dave]

Just as well neither of us are sat in armchairs right now then. And that my own posting history shows that I'm clearly not a CEO. If I was, I'd be able to afford a far better armchair.

This is not at all out of character for Towers. Evidentially, closing stuff is what they do, and they've now been at it for years. But I would agree with you that the suddenness of the decision is somewhat unusual and interesting. Maybe they just didn't see the spa as part of their tacky, purple paint soaked, down-market future plans for the place? Then, a pipe burst, a ceiling tile fell down, or a water pump did a Burton and it gave them the excuse they needed to board the whole place up?

I'm not sure what "nearly everything" means when I only mentioned 2 things. Maybe half of that which is 1? Anyway, after over 4 whole years of new ownership, which reference I made are they incapable of controlling right now? 4 years is a long time in the private sector, and we should rightly be seeing results by now. If a company is so hamstrung after 4 years that they can't control the meat content of their burgers, can't prevent a check-in desk being ripped out and replaced by tablets, and can't run a bloody sauna, then they're either incomprehensibly incompetent..... or, dare I suggest, are possibly making these decisions on purpose?

It's been 4 years. How long are we expected to pretend that everything crap that happens is to be blamed on PLC Merlin, yet everything good that happens is totally down to the new "give them a chance" and "give them time" private Merlin?

1) It’s been 1 year since Varney left, it’s been 1 year since Towers leadership was changed:

2) The first 2 years of Kirkby ownership occurred during a pandemic. I would say I’m willing to give them until next season to start seeing improvements.

You are right you only mentioned two things to define your statement of “gradual degradation of quality”. Sorry I stupidly went on autopilot assuming someone would have given more than 2 examples to define “gradual” (I mean over the last 10 years it’s not hard to find them).

Either way the hyperbole around this closure (ironically of something most people admit they barely used) is curious, maybe if people thought it was such an integral part of a resort offering they maybe should have used it

 

[venny]

I actually think it's brave management. You know there will be a lot of backlash but your still prepared to close it as the product isn't of the standard you want to portray.

I think this is called the “why fix it, when we can close it” attitude.

It’s a strategy that’s worked well for them previously, with Ripsaw, Hex, Skyride, Submission, Twirling Toadstool, Enterprise, Treetop Quest etc.

 

[Earthwürm]

I think this is called the “why fix it, when we can close it” attitude.

It’s a strategy that’s worked well for them previously, with Ripsaw, Hex, Skyride, Submission, Twirling Toadstool, Enterprise, Treetop Quest etc.

A little pedantic of me, but Hex and Skyride ARE being fixed, hence they've been closed, and submission was unfixable, it needed to burn. I'll give you the rest.
I just don't get that vibe with the spa though, it just feels like it's something that's been coming for a while, that has perhaps been brought forward by an unforeseen circumstance.
I didn't use it, nor do I know anyone who did, so it doesn't come as a great surprise or loss to me.

 

[venny]

Your pedantry is correct, it is probably better explained by “why maintain it, when we can close it”.

My guess is if proactive maintenance had been carried out on Hex and Skyride, they would not have been closed for such lengthy periods (or in Hex’s case it would have been done properly during the first or second of its recent extended closures). Judging by the hashed way in which the Spa’s closure has been handled combined with its very obvious lack of maintenance, my guess is there is at least some of the same attitude being applied to this closure decision.

 

[rob666]

Oh but there is a terribly long wait for parts, then scaffolders, then the parts have to be installed by the right technicians, which there is a shortage of, then all the equipment has to be tested, at length, scaffolding removed, operations staff trained, and then rescue evacuation staff retrained for ropework in the case of a breakdown.
I think the monorail will be next personally.

 

[Squiggs]

I can assure you the spa was poor quality, especially for a company the size of Towers.

As you can see from the previous posts it was dirty, lots of cracked tiles, the footbaths never worked, the steam room rarely worked, there was no seating when the conservatory was removed and the changing rooms were size of Harry Potters bedroom under the stairs.

At one time yes it was a better quality offering, but that was unfortunately 10+ years ago.

Sorry, my original post wasn't very clear. My point wasn't that the Spa was of the quality it should be for the UK's leading 'Theme Park Resort'. It was more that the quality of the Spa won’t have been a leading factor in the decision to close it.

Even in its current state, it's not a notably worse quality offering than much of the rest of the resort. Pretty much everything at the resort is a bit tired these days and could do with some sprucing up. And it clearly had a reasonably loyal following if you look at the Spa's social media channels, so they must have been doing something right.

Based on the hurried nature of the closure, my instinct is that something has come up last minute that has led the powers that be to reallocate the Spa's winter maintenance budget elsewhere. It might not even be something directly related to the Spa that has led to the decision - it's possible that they discovered something costly needed replacing elsewhere on the resort, such as in the Waterpark, and this was the easiest option to balance the books.

 

[Alsty]

We should take bets on what they'll close next. Extraordinary Golf?

 

[Quantum]

A resort without a spa in 2024 is odd. I appreciate the Towers Spa looked dated and was probably underused but the best option surely would be for a major upgrade.

Spa packages are big money makers and not everyone who goes to the hotel goes to the theme park especially in closed season. I can't think of what would replace it in this space. If they end up with some kids soft play then they really have lost the plot.

 

[GaryH]

We should take bets on what they'll close next. Extraordinary Golf?

I agree with Rob, I think it will be the monorail next. If it’s considered the spa is no longer up to scratch then the current state of the monorail definitely isn’t!

 

[Plastic Person]

This is a really disappointing decision. Admittedly not one that will concern the single rider and pre-made sandwich crew, but any ‘resort’ should have a spa in 2024, and might well be expected to be expanding it. Despite the supposed shift in management attitude, it’s clear that Alton Towers are still forced to make budget decisions that are crippling and sometimes counterintuitive for an estate of such size and influence.

 

[GaryH]

If you think about it from the “staying over” angle, the spa is now gone, the tree top quest has gone, the large teepee bar has gone, entertainment offerings reduced and earlier closing of hotel bars, food offerings are poor, waterpark is too small for the number of rooms and lots broken, mini golf outdated and tatty (except the 9 holes which they recently refurbed), arcades are now all “ticket” type machines rather than fun arcade games and check out is 10am while a faceless machine checks you in.

Apart from the fact you are staying on site there isn’t really much that makes me want to pay the £200+ per night to stay there. And believe me, I want to stay on site, I miss staying on site!

 

[Squiggs]

We should take bets on what they'll close next. Extraordinary Golf?

I wouldn't take bets just yet.

I think we might already know the answer to that question. Two words... themed suites.

It looks suspiciously like the resort are in the process of scrapping (or at least re-imagining) four of their themed suites.

The Hidden Hideaway suite has recently been removed from the website altogether and is no longer available to book, so safe to say this has now gone. Interestingly though, the two Peter Rabbit suites are still listed on the website, but they don't appear to be available to book at all this year. And the last dates you are able to book the Ice Age Suite is this coming weekend, after that it also doesn't look like it's available this year.

So it looks like these four suites are the next on the chopping block. Now, of course any or all of these could be up for rethemes, but it'll be interesting to see what is announced.