Burbs
TS Team
- Favourite Ride
- Iron Gwazi
Pretty much everyone I've spoken to who has ridden all 3 (myself included), puts Helix on top, followed by Blue Fire, then Icon.
-
ℹ️ Heads up...
This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.
Icon or Blue Fire?
- Thread starter Matt N
- Start date
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Mako (SeaWorld Orlando)
I’m finding this thread very intriguing reading so far… I knew that ranking Icon above Blue Fire was somewhat controversial, but I never knew it was quite this controversial; this thread is quite a decisive whitewash in favour of Blue Fire so far!
Interesting how opinions vary… on Icon, I personally remember finding airtime all over the place, fun transitions, fun inversions, and a smooth, rerideable ride experience that I absolutely fell in love with, and wowed me from the first ride! It was my #2 coaster when I first rode, and it’s still my #4 and my #1 in the UK!
Don’t get me wrong, Blue Fire was smooth, had fun inversions (particularly the last one, which was phenomenal!), had some nice hangtime, and had a surprisingly punchy launch, and I did think it was an excellent ride that I thoroughly enjoyed, but it had very little airtime, sometimes even none at all dependent on where I sat; even on the back, I only remember one pop of airtime coming off of the MCBR. And even putting aside the point about airtime, I generally found it missing a certain spark compared to Icon; it missed a certain something to elevate it into that top tier for me that I can’t quite put my finger on.
I did think it was an excellent ride, though; I thoroughly enjoyed it, and it’s certainly my 3rd favourite coaster at Europa and in my top 10 (just about; it sits at #10)!
Interesting how opinions vary… on Icon, I personally remember finding airtime all over the place, fun transitions, fun inversions, and a smooth, rerideable ride experience that I absolutely fell in love with, and wowed me from the first ride! It was my #2 coaster when I first rode, and it’s still my #4 and my #1 in the UK!
Don’t get me wrong, Blue Fire was smooth, had fun inversions (particularly the last one, which was phenomenal!), had some nice hangtime, and had a surprisingly punchy launch, and I did think it was an excellent ride that I thoroughly enjoyed, but it had very little airtime, sometimes even none at all dependent on where I sat; even on the back, I only remember one pop of airtime coming off of the MCBR. And even putting aside the point about airtime, I generally found it missing a certain spark compared to Icon; it missed a certain something to elevate it into that top tier for me that I can’t quite put my finger on.
I did think it was an excellent ride, though; I thoroughly enjoyed it, and it’s certainly my 3rd favourite coaster at Europa and in my top 10 (just about; it sits at #10)!
mo237
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Symbolica
It's been a good four years since I rode Icon and six since Blue Fire (god that makes me feel old!), and Blue Fire wins without a shadow of a doubt.
Icon is - for me at least - a glorified family coaster that rather pointlessly meanders round Blackpool with no real motive. A chill coaster is cool once in a while, but Icon is just too calm, if that makes sense - even Thirteen has more spice.
It took me a few rides to warm up to Blue Fire, but after a while I loved it. It's pretty tame for the most part (bar that hilariously hideous final inversion), but there's something satisfying about it, if that makes sense? I dunno, the package as a whole feels much more complete than Icon, plus it feels considerably faster.
Then there's Helix, which I feel I should like more, if it wasn't for the circumstances in which I rode it. Much like Blue Fire, I could tell it'd take a couple laps to really understand it. On my third ride, a leaf struck my eye just before the first launch, meaning I spent the rest of it in quite a bit of pain - meaning I was focussing more on, ow my eye, rather than, wheee rollercoaster. Later that evening, I queued up for a fourth go, but it abruptly broke down, and didn't reopen for the rest of the weekend! Overall it's more intense than the other two coasters though.
With Thorpe getting a Mack (was it a Mack? Haven't seen the plans since their initial reveal), I'm a little nervous it won't quite be as intense as it sounds, which is why I'd personally prefer an Intamin. But who knows, Mack have a habit of surprising people. Afterall, Blue Fire came out of nowhere.
Icon is - for me at least - a glorified family coaster that rather pointlessly meanders round Blackpool with no real motive. A chill coaster is cool once in a while, but Icon is just too calm, if that makes sense - even Thirteen has more spice.
It took me a few rides to warm up to Blue Fire, but after a while I loved it. It's pretty tame for the most part (bar that hilariously hideous final inversion), but there's something satisfying about it, if that makes sense? I dunno, the package as a whole feels much more complete than Icon, plus it feels considerably faster.
Then there's Helix, which I feel I should like more, if it wasn't for the circumstances in which I rode it. Much like Blue Fire, I could tell it'd take a couple laps to really understand it. On my third ride, a leaf struck my eye just before the first launch, meaning I spent the rest of it in quite a bit of pain - meaning I was focussing more on, ow my eye, rather than, wheee rollercoaster. Later that evening, I queued up for a fourth go, but it abruptly broke down, and didn't reopen for the rest of the weekend! Overall it's more intense than the other two coasters though.
With Thorpe getting a Mack (was it a Mack? Haven't seen the plans since their initial reveal), I'm a little nervous it won't quite be as intense as it sounds, which is why I'd personally prefer an Intamin. But who knows, Mack have a habit of surprising people. Afterall, Blue Fire came out of nowhere.
Dave
TS Founding Member
Blue fire doesn’t have a lot of airtime, but icon also lacks airtime. That’s it’s problem, it isn’t a major inversion coaster but it also doesn’t go for airtime, it just meanders.
AstroDan
TS Team
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance, Cedar Point
Blue Fire is principally a launched looping coaster. It was the first of this kind, and isn't designed with airtime in mind.
More modern Mack rides like Alpina Blitz are. In 2008/9, when Blue Fire was being built, Mack just weren't sure what the system could cope with. Within a few years- they knew.
Icon does have more airtime on the whole than Blue Fire. But other than this it doesn't really offer a whole lot.
The launch at the start is truly woeful.
Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk
More modern Mack rides like Alpina Blitz are. In 2008/9, when Blue Fire was being built, Mack just weren't sure what the system could cope with. Within a few years- they knew.
Icon does have more airtime on the whole than Blue Fire. But other than this it doesn't really offer a whole lot.
The launch at the start is truly woeful.
Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk
Skyscraper
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Nemesis
Not been officially confirmed yet, but everything is pointing toward it being a Mack Hyper.
Danny
TS Contributor
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance
Copperhead Strike is the perfect demonstration of what Icon could and should have been. A slightly nippier launch, some fantastic hangtime and then nice flowing to connect all the elements. Even that, however, still falls short of Blue Fire in my rankings.
Tim
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Air / Blue Fire
Wasn't there talk before Icon opened that the park intentionally set the launch speed to as low as it could possibly go without risking stalling? I remember something about saving power either to reduce the load on the local transformer or for cost saving.
Given that all the negative reviews of the ride involve the launch being too weak and meandering round the circuit could it just be that it's not being run at the intended speed?
Given that all the negative reviews of the ride involve the launch being too weak and meandering round the circuit could it just be that it's not being run at the intended speed?
Cheese
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Helix, Liseberg
Correct or not, it seems feasible - even late in the day Icon feels like it's running slower than intended.
Turning up the launch power of course wouldn't solve the other significant issue with Icon, which is the poor pacing. Firing off both inversions in quick succession and following them up with a load of corners isn't very exciting to say the least - one more inversion later on would help.
Blue Fire has some odd layout choices. Why is that first bend so high that you have to ride at the back to get pulled round it? Why is that hill before the final roll so pointless? Fortunately the nicely paced rest of the layout makes up for it (loop, tunnel, rise into MCBR, then smooth rolls at either end of the rock cutting, and of course that wild last roll), and it's an amazing overall package to top it all.
I’ve ridden Helix, Blue Fire and Icon, and I went for Icon over Blue Fire (but would go for Helix over Icon). I voted before reading the comments, so it’s interesting to see how people made their choices. Clearly Blue Fire does have a higher throughput, because it’s got longer trains and a separate offload platform. I didn’t really take that into account, but I can see how that would swing it for people.
In terms of theming, there’s no denying that Blue Fire’s better themed. It’s also better themed than Helix. If Icon were at another modern theme park, that might have swung me to Blue Fire. But I think it’s a bit unfair to criticise roller coasters at a seaside amusement park for not having much theming. That’s not what Blackpool’s about. It’s about the interaction between the different rides, and all the energy from having so much packed together. For me, Icon does that very well. Similarly, Helix doesn’t have much theming, but it has a stunning setting on the side of a mountain. Blue Fire, Helix and Icon all have impressive visuals, but for different reasons. Blue Fire has the theming. Helix has the terrain. Icon has the interaction with other rides.
Whilst Blue Fire is well themed, I found it a bit disappointing. The Icelandic theme is original, and the quality of the theming generally is very good. For example, the rockwork continues through the tunnels, even though you race through them very quickly. There are some nice touches, like the spotlight that follows the trains out the station, the smoke from the ceiling vents and the doors that slide open just before the launch. Blue Fire also looks very good after dark.
At the same time, the animatronics are very basic. I don’t normally mind basic animatronics. They can give a ride charm. But there’s a difference between basic animatronics on a heritage ride, or a ride at a small park, and the clash between the modern feel of Blue Fire and the basic figures. There’s the usual story about something going wrong and the launch, but it feels like the ‘story’ is abandoned. It could do with some theming around the brake run to act as a kind of bookend. I also find with Blue Fire that you’re very aware of being on the edge of the park. I don’t mind seeing other areas, but seeing the access road running around the outside does take away from the immersion for me. Although I do accept that very few parks go the full Taron.
I do like the little dark ride section at the beginning of Blue Fire and it definitely works in its favour. But I prefer the layout of Icon, and I like the interaction with the other rides. If I take into account the throughput, then maybe that would tip things in Blue Fire’s favour. But I voted for Icon.
In terms of theming, there’s no denying that Blue Fire’s better themed. It’s also better themed than Helix. If Icon were at another modern theme park, that might have swung me to Blue Fire. But I think it’s a bit unfair to criticise roller coasters at a seaside amusement park for not having much theming. That’s not what Blackpool’s about. It’s about the interaction between the different rides, and all the energy from having so much packed together. For me, Icon does that very well. Similarly, Helix doesn’t have much theming, but it has a stunning setting on the side of a mountain. Blue Fire, Helix and Icon all have impressive visuals, but for different reasons. Blue Fire has the theming. Helix has the terrain. Icon has the interaction with other rides.
Whilst Blue Fire is well themed, I found it a bit disappointing. The Icelandic theme is original, and the quality of the theming generally is very good. For example, the rockwork continues through the tunnels, even though you race through them very quickly. There are some nice touches, like the spotlight that follows the trains out the station, the smoke from the ceiling vents and the doors that slide open just before the launch. Blue Fire also looks very good after dark.
At the same time, the animatronics are very basic. I don’t normally mind basic animatronics. They can give a ride charm. But there’s a difference between basic animatronics on a heritage ride, or a ride at a small park, and the clash between the modern feel of Blue Fire and the basic figures. There’s the usual story about something going wrong and the launch, but it feels like the ‘story’ is abandoned. It could do with some theming around the brake run to act as a kind of bookend. I also find with Blue Fire that you’re very aware of being on the edge of the park. I don’t mind seeing other areas, but seeing the access road running around the outside does take away from the immersion for me. Although I do accept that very few parks go the full Taron.
I do like the little dark ride section at the beginning of Blue Fire and it definitely works in its favour. But I prefer the layout of Icon, and I like the interaction with the other rides. If I take into account the throughput, then maybe that would tip things in Blue Fire’s favour. But I voted for Icon.
John_P
TS Member
Not to mention the themeing made no sense, set in the Iceland section of the park but the ride was used to shill for questionable oil pipelines/companies that have nothing to do with that region.
Plus yeah its got a stronger launch that is absolutely wasted with a big banked turn, in fact it takes so much pace off the ride one of the clones stalled in that section a few months ago.
Plus yeah its got a stronger launch that is absolutely wasted with a big banked turn, in fact it takes so much pace off the ride one of the clones stalled in that section a few months ago.
djtruefitt
TS Team
I can’t actually believe there is a topic, but surely it’s got to be Blue Fire. The theming is better, the station, the layout and the ride. Icon is fine at the start and also the second launch, but other than that it just goes back and forth from side to side. It needs another inversion or two chucking in to it. Blue fire on the other hand doesn’t really have a dull moment.
Like others have said, Helix is the best out of the three though, as it’s a much longer ride, has launches, airtime and plenty of inversion, and no dull bits.
Like others have said, Helix is the best out of the three though, as it’s a much longer ride, has launches, airtime and plenty of inversion, and no dull bits.
IanB
TS Member
I have not ridden Icon or being to Blackpool since it opened so I can not compare the two, I really need to get up there and ride it sooner rather than later.
But I was lucky enough to ride Blue Fire when it opened, meet Roland Mack during the day and get invited back to ride it later than evening. It just helps attach more positive memories of the ride for me. The last inversion also still scares me, and there is no other coaster where I have that feeling of excitement and worry as I approach it.
One of the things I enjoy about Blue Fire is that it is a good coaster to sit and watch go round. It has several headchopper moments where its fun just to watch everyone duck their hands out the way as they go through the rock tunnels. Sitting in Kaffi Hús with a hot chocolate and cake, watching Blue Fire in the sunshine is a great way to take a break.
My only criticism of Blue Fire is the mid ride brake run, which looks a little ugly and out of place. If they could cover that up with another mountain, and maybe add a few animatronics to continue the story I would be happy, but its still not enough to ruin the ride, and me being super picky.
But I was lucky enough to ride Blue Fire when it opened, meet Roland Mack during the day and get invited back to ride it later than evening. It just helps attach more positive memories of the ride for me. The last inversion also still scares me, and there is no other coaster where I have that feeling of excitement and worry as I approach it.
One of the things I enjoy about Blue Fire is that it is a good coaster to sit and watch go round. It has several headchopper moments where its fun just to watch everyone duck their hands out the way as they go through the rock tunnels. Sitting in Kaffi Hús with a hot chocolate and cake, watching Blue Fire in the sunshine is a great way to take a break.
My only criticism of Blue Fire is the mid ride brake run, which looks a little ugly and out of place. If they could cover that up with another mountain, and maybe add a few animatronics to continue the story I would be happy, but its still not enough to ruin the ride, and me being super picky.
I certainly wouldn't say the animatronics and story issues ruin it for me. Both coasters are decent. As you say, some of it comes down to individual experiences. If I remember rightly, Blue Fire won Towers Street's best European coaster award (poll) for at leat a couple of years. The first time I rode it my expectations were very high. If my expectations had been a bit lower, I'm sure I'd have been more impressed. The same is true with Wodan. One other thing I didn't mention was that I do like Blue Fire's entrance with the bridge and fountains on either side.
Most coasters that get cloned a lot aren't bad rides per se, at least not relative to the cost of building them. Although some of them haven't worn that well (I'm looking at you Vekoma SLC). But if the layout itself is bad, it probably won't get cloned a lot. Imitation is the best form of flattery, as they say.
Part of the reason that Blue Fire's been cloned a lot is because it's a decent layout. The other reason is that it's a layout that could easily fit into a lot of parks with a flat piece of land. Icon's layout is clearly more unusual. You could argue that there's a reason why there aren't a lot coasters with similar layouts to Icon, but it is nice to go on something that feels so different. Particualarly if you're lucky enough to have ridden a lot of coasters.
When it opened Blue Fire was a very innovative ride. At the time most looping coasters still had the traditional OSTRs, and ratcheting restraints. Blue Fire did mark a turning point in ride design. For example, compare Blue Fire's trains to the trains on Colossus (at Thorpe Park). Blue Fire's ride system must have felt really bold when it opened. Now it feels like a fairly standard modern coaster.
I'm slightly surprised people feel Blue Fire's better paced. They say Nemesis feels faster than it is. I kind of get the opposite feeling with Blue Fire. I think it feels slower than it is. After the initial launch the trains slow right down in the big turn around. Admittedly most launched coasters have an element after the launch that the trains go over slowly. Presumably it means that once a train's cleared that element, it will make it through all the subsequent ones. You then have the loop, which is fairly decent, but then the midcourse brakes kill the speed again. The rest of the coaster isn't bad, but it does feel like it's already lost a lot of speed. I do agree that the final inversion is very good though.
In the end it does come down to emotions. It's like trying to explain why you found a joke funny. Sometimes you just find one coaster more fun than another one. Most enthusiasts seem to agree that the best coasters at Europa Park are Blue Fire and Wodan. For me, it's Can Can Coaster, and if you count Aurthur as a coaster (I see it more as a dark ride) I'd put that second.
Most coasters that get cloned a lot aren't bad rides per se, at least not relative to the cost of building them. Although some of them haven't worn that well (I'm looking at you Vekoma SLC). But if the layout itself is bad, it probably won't get cloned a lot. Imitation is the best form of flattery, as they say.
Part of the reason that Blue Fire's been cloned a lot is because it's a decent layout. The other reason is that it's a layout that could easily fit into a lot of parks with a flat piece of land. Icon's layout is clearly more unusual. You could argue that there's a reason why there aren't a lot coasters with similar layouts to Icon, but it is nice to go on something that feels so different. Particualarly if you're lucky enough to have ridden a lot of coasters.
When it opened Blue Fire was a very innovative ride. At the time most looping coasters still had the traditional OSTRs, and ratcheting restraints. Blue Fire did mark a turning point in ride design. For example, compare Blue Fire's trains to the trains on Colossus (at Thorpe Park). Blue Fire's ride system must have felt really bold when it opened. Now it feels like a fairly standard modern coaster.
I'm slightly surprised people feel Blue Fire's better paced. They say Nemesis feels faster than it is. I kind of get the opposite feeling with Blue Fire. I think it feels slower than it is. After the initial launch the trains slow right down in the big turn around. Admittedly most launched coasters have an element after the launch that the trains go over slowly. Presumably it means that once a train's cleared that element, it will make it through all the subsequent ones. You then have the loop, which is fairly decent, but then the midcourse brakes kill the speed again. The rest of the coaster isn't bad, but it does feel like it's already lost a lot of speed. I do agree that the final inversion is very good though.
In the end it does come down to emotions. It's like trying to explain why you found a joke funny. Sometimes you just find one coaster more fun than another one. Most enthusiasts seem to agree that the best coasters at Europa Park are Blue Fire and Wodan. For me, it's Can Can Coaster, and if you count Aurthur as a coaster (I see it more as a dark ride) I'd put that second.
Rowe
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Matterhorn Blitz (with an Aperol Spritz!)
I voted Blue Fire but I will admit I like both coasters, they're fun for different reasons. Blue Fire for the great theming, the launch scene that always runs a chill down my spine and the whole coaster experience. Icon for being an ambitious attempt by Mack to make an inverting powered coaster that stills packs less punch than Runaway Mine Train.