If given the opportunity, would you go to Six Flags Qiddiya to ride Falcon’s Flight?

[GooseOnTheLoose]

“how much human rights infraction am I willing to accept?”

The answer to this should always, where possible, be none.

Boycotting a country for tourism is a choice, and quite an easy one to make. You're either boycotting, or you're not. Let's be clear here, these aren't some small "I wish it could be slightly better" things. My position isn't really influenced by not being able to have a drink, or not being able to hold my boyfriend's hand. I'm not mentioning my female friends having to cover up. I'm not talking about the smaller things, like the death penalty. I'm talking about three completely and utterly unjustifiable things.

Slavery. Political assassinations. Genocide.

The UK isn't perfect, the US really is far from perfect, but they are at least trying. There are ways to improve the system. There is at least a modicum of improvement. We don't currently engage in slavery or genocide. Aside from Saddam Hussein, we don't currently or actively engage in state sanctioned political assassinations.

It's difficult to boycott Saudi Arabia's oil, there's just no getting around that one. You absolutely don't have to visit the country for the sake of a coaster, no matter how great it looks, if you disagree with slavery being very likely used to build it.

 

[Visma]

I’m LGBT and in a same sex relationship. For me personally, I 100% would not visit Saudi. A vacation is supposed to be stress free and enjoyable, visiting would fill me with immense anxiety and I’d constantly be fearing for my own safety. I understand tourists are more protected but that doesn’t give me much comfort knowing how they treat their own LGBT people.

This coaster is bittersweet as the engineering behind the project is mind blowing and will truly set a new benchmark for the industry. It’s just such a shame it’s being built in a country that is so oppressive to woman and LGBT people. It feels incredibly excluding as i’d love to experience Falcons Flight but i just cannot take the risk visiting a country that so fundamentally rejects homosexuality (which for me is a part of who i am and not a conscious choice).

It’s really jarring as places like Disney have such large LGBT visitor numbers and for me, like many others, theme parks are an inclusive safe space to enjoy with my friends and partner.

It’s a worrying trend that countries with appalling human rights are creating flashy projects and plastic holiday destinations to economically profile from people while attempting to hide their own human rights abuses.

There are so many other destinations and theme parks on my bucket list where i will actually feel safe visiting.

I do feel this resort will be a bit of a one and done for most visiting. It will be interesting to watch the visitor numbers over the first years of operation.

I don’t judge people for wanting to go, the coaster experience will be one of a kind! To say you’ve done the tallest, fastest and longest roller coaster in the world is really something special… I just wish they’d built it in Europe / US and not the Saudi desert.

 

[dave___]

I do feel this resort will be a bit of a one and done for most visiting. It will be interesting to watch the visitor numbers over the first years of operation.

See what happens if and when they lose the F1 rights and the racetrack underneath is reclaimed by the desert.

 

[Danny]

It's difficult to boycott Saudi Arabia's oil, there's just no getting around that one. You absolutely don't have to visit the country for the sake of a coaster, no matter how great it looks, if you disagree with slavery being very likely used to build it.

It looks like the reputable RCS (as confirmed by their own website), and naturally Intamin, have been used to build it as opposed to slavery.

 

[Matt N]

The answer to this should always, where possible, be none.

Boycotting a country for tourism is a choice, and quite an easy one to make. You're either boycotting, or you're not. Let's be clear here, these aren't some small "I wish it could be slightly better" things. My position isn't really influenced by not being able to have a drink, or not being able to hold my boyfriend's hand. I'm not mentioning my female friends having to cover up. I'm not talking about the smaller things, like the death penalty. I'm talking about three completely and utterly unjustifiable things.

Slavery. Political assassinations. Genocide.

The UK isn't perfect, the US really is far from perfect, but they are at least trying. There are ways to improve the system. There is at least a modicum of improvement. We don't currently engage in slavery or genocide. Aside from Saddam Hussein, we don't currently or actively engage in state sanctioned political assassinations.

It's difficult to boycott Saudi Arabia's oil, there's just no getting around that one. You absolutely don't have to visit the country for the sake of a coaster, no matter how great it looks, if you disagree with slavery being very likely used to build it.

That’s a fair argument, and you’ve put it across well. I do get what you mean, and I’m not saying I agree with what goes on in Saudi by any stretch. Or that Saudi would even be high on my personal visit list. I also never said that people had to visit Saudi either; as I’ve said, it’s an entirely personal choice.

I do acknowledge that there are scales to these things. But what I would say is that for all the furore about Saudi, there are many countries that have quite a few skeletons in the closet ethically that I’ve seen people visit on enthusiast forums before. The UAE, for instance, is not a lot different from Saudi in terms of laws and general culture, albeit perhaps less extreme, yet I’ve seen plenty go there for theme parks. I’ve also seen plenty visit China, a country where people were physically barricaded in their homes during the COVID-19 pandemic and an authoritarian dictatorship rules with an iron fist and considerably inhibits the freedoms of those who live there, for theme parks. I even knew of people who’d been to Russia and ridden the coasters there (prior to the events of 2022), and that country is ruled by a power-hungry dictator and engaged in lots of freedom-inhibiting and highly authoritarian activities even prior to the Ukraine invasion. My point is; if the likes of China and Russia are ethically OK, then why not Saudi? What is making us draw that red line? China and Russia have done some pretty awful things too, so why aren’t (or weren’t, in the case of Russia) they red listed?

There’s also a chance that the infiltration of tourism, and the moves taken to force it, may see some legal and cultural shifts in Saudi. It’s happened to some extent in the UAE.

I’m not saying that anyone is wrong to think the way they do about this matter. It’s an entirely personal choice, and I fully respect anyone’s belief system and the personal decision they come to because of this. I respect those who say they wouldn’t go and I equally respect those who say they would. As I said in my opening post, I also acknowledge my immense privilege when it comes to not having to ponder personal safety when thinking about this matter, being male and not openly LGBT. But I do think the discussion opens up a fascinating debate about the general ethics of the countries we visit and support, and just how much of a grey area the matter really is. These things are not black and white by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

It looks like the reputable RCS (as confirmed by their own website), and naturally Intamin, have been used to build it as opposed to slavery.

Saudi Arabia has no meaningful protections against forced labour, with their entire construction industry relying heavily on migrant workers, similar to Qatar.

Although reputable companies are being used to design and manufacture the coasters, it is incredibly likely that forced labour is being used during the construction process. Either of the coaster itself, or in the support structures around the rest of the development.

Saudi Arabia accused of using forced labour ahead of Fifa World Cup decision

Union’s claim of ‘epidemic of migrant worker abuses’ could force Fifa to reject state as 2034 host if it fails to meet rights obligations

www.theguardian.com

It's similar to how many companies inadvertently benefit from the use of slave/forced labour from factories in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. Apple, Ford, Tesla all likely use materials produced by slave labour in their supply chain, but very far down. Suppliers of suppliers of suppliers.

 

[Danny]

Saudi Arabia has no meaningful protections against forced labour, with their entire construction industry relying heavily on migrant workers, similar to Qatar.

Although reputable companies are being used to design and manufacture the coasters, it is incredibly likely that forced labour is being used during the construction process. Either of the coaster itself, or in the support structures around the rest of the development.

Saudi Arabia accused of using forced labour ahead of Fifa World Cup decision

Union’s claim of ‘epidemic of migrant worker abuses’ could force Fifa to reject state as 2034 host if it fails to meet rights obligations

www.theguardian.com

It's similar to how many companies inadvertently benefit from the use of slave/forced labour from factories in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. Apple, Ford, Tesla all likely use materials produced by slave labour in their supply chain, but very far down. Suppliers of suppliers of suppliers.

RCS aren't the ones designing or manufacturing; they're the ones carrying out the physical install in construction. They're a reputable company that gets booked up years in advance for ride installations due to the capacity of their in-house team. They don't use slave labour to assemble the coasters that are designed and manufactured for them to assemble.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

RCS aren't the ones designing or manufacturing; they're the ones carrying out the physical install in construction. They're a reputable company that gets booked up years in advance for ride installations due to the capacity of their in-house team. They don't use slave labour to assemble the coasters that are designed and manufactured for them to assemble.

Which is not to say that the supporting facilities, or supporting construction, to enable the build of the coaster and the rest of the project isn't using slave labour.

There are reputable construction and agricultural companies in this country who accidentally use modern slave labour, provided to them by people smugglers in seemingly legitimate operations. The difference is it's not state sanctioned or on an industrial scale.

 

[Bowser]

My point is; if the likes of China and Russia are ethically OK, then why not Saudi? What is making us draw that red line? China and Russia have done some pretty awful things too, so why aren’t (or weren’t, in the case of Russia) they red listed?

I suppose one difference is this is directly a State project. Personally I find it more palatable to accept a population are not completely represented by their government, particularly in less democratic nations.

Equally you’d have to ask people who are drawing that ethical line. I don’t believe anyone has done so here? I’ve been to the countries you cite (for work) and like I said, in those circumstances I’d potentially visit Saudi and I expect my homosexual colleagues would do the same.

TBH in terms of personal safety I feel more concerned visiting the US than most places I go to these days, though I’ve also been to the likes of Columbia so I’m fairly easily swayed! I appreciate also there is a distinction to choosing to visit somewhere purely for tourism which is what you’re asking and in that regards I’d only really visit Europe, Australasia and East Asia these days.