In your view, what is wrong with British public transport and what would you do to solve the problems?

[Tibble]

Back when I lived in Buxton, the public transport was very poor and the busses that did run were cancelled daily at last second. The trains were once an hour to Manchester and it was a train from the 80s. Not to mention it was also always late despite it being 2 trains which went from buxton to Manchester and reverse, no other destinations (it had stops between but no other end destinations).

I now live down in Milton Keynes and whilst the public transport is better, it is still not fit for purpose, buses are always late and some just don't stop if the driver is running late. It is just easier to drive to my destination rather than get on a bus which is too expensive and will take triple the time.

I think the UK did wrong in selling off the railways. Now other countries national train operators just use our railways to make profits and direct them back into their native railways.

 

[Craig]

I'll give you some examples of journeys from where I live in Darlington...

• I'm off to York on Friday - a 30 minute journey each way from where I am. I've had to book an off peak return via any operator for £27.80 (£5 more) instead of TPE due to their constant last minute cancellations. I'm taking the train since we're drinking, but if I were to drive as I did last week when I popped there, it'd cost me about £20 including park and ride even at today's crazy diesel prices. There is admittedly a convenience factor with the train, since it's 20-30 minutes quicker, but if I was travelling with others - the car becomes considerably cheaper.
• I'm heading to Birmingham next month, a train to New Street from Darlington would cost me £108 for an off peak return. Splitting the ticket (which used to save a fair bit) would now save me a whole £4.84. That same journey driving is costing me £62 including parking. It takes the same amount of time driving as it does taking the train and I'm parking at New Street so arriving at the same destination. I'm also heading down with someone else, so the costs are essentially halved again, so driving is saving me £77.
• Blackpool last month would cost me £91.30 off peak return and the journey would take 3.5 hours. That's assuming the trains were running with the mess that TPE and Avanti are in at the moment. That same trip driving cost me £45 including parking and took just 2 hours each way.

Of course, advance tickets would make the above cheaper, although trying to get them when planning things only a few weeks in advance is nigh on impossible - especially when they're not released thanks to constant timetable changes. Advance tickets on the Cross Country routes which my trip to birmingham is on are like gold dust.

I'm very much for taking public transport, and I'm fine with being inconvenienced with a slight increase in journey time or cost. But when the costs of driving are often more than 50% less even including parking, why bother? With the state of people's finances at the moment, where is the incentive to the public to choose the greener option?

 

[QTXAdsy]

On the topic of public transport which can be a quite tetchy, here is a little bit of light-hearted optimism I cooked up in about 10 minutes regarding on a rail link for Alton Towers but with a twist...

Well then, with the main hot topic being on public transport in this country on TS, that just so happens to line up with something on how to help out the poor transport links with Alton Towers but not in the way you imagine. That's right, as railway consultant myself, I'm going for a rail link proposal that doesn't include using the Alton railway station as what 90% of people would think and instead, I'm going for an out of the box approach by going from a back to front approach via Uttoxeter which will not only be a far better alternative for public transport but will also see Ashbourne regain a rail connection in the process with all trains to it and Alton Towers all starting from Derby.

Please note that this is very rough outline and doesn't include the many problems that that would take place in buying up land but to I'm using the UK rail map website which includes many railway lines past and present and the blue line you see is the original routes while the red line you see is the proposed new route which doesn't following the original route in places but takes a new and faster route. So let's begin starting from Uttoxeter...


As you can see here, the yellow line is the current railway and our new route in red takes a new direction that avoids going through the town and avoids any costs of buying up track bed back and goes behind the town in a straighter route before it joins the original track bed just north of Rocester, this all helps having any train achieve a faster speed.


First off, sorry for cutting off the bottom part, that was a mistake I overlook but you probably get the idea where we are right now, anyway then...at this point the line then separates off two directions in which one-way swings eastwards towards Ashbourne but takes a different route before turning off at a new station site that doesn't lead into the original location that has been since taken over by other developments which might be a wee bit out from the town is actually needed to allow the big car park that any new station needs and this would be no exception. Regardless though, Ashbourne has its railway back and now we look west for the new route to Alton Towers which utterly avoids that original track bed as getting it back into use with the major restrictions in place is useless plus is not fit for modern use so once again, a new route will take place that avoids it for the most part until it reaches the original track bed very briefly before it swings up towards the car park beside the hotels. Now for a closer look...


And there we are, the new route goes through the woodland which honestly could be very tricky to get approval knowing the restrictions in place however the station (likely the island platform design with two tracks on either side of the platform would be in place) that can be themed if Merlin chipped in for their part of the bargain though as you can see it would be right alongside the Extraordinary Golf course and is right next to the Monorail station which is important as this would mean the latter will finally have a useful purpose of acting as an actually legit bit of transport for the park in which guests can easily walk from the train to (hopefully a refurbished) monorail which would take them right to the gate of the park.

So yes, something I come up in just 10 minutes, but I was thinking outside the box for a proper rail link to the park which while this might not please the purist who would like the original station back in use, it is too far from the park entrance and not to mention most of the locals wouldn't want a train link so instead here is a new route that bypasses them completely and instead is a far more direction route to the park. I'm unsure if such an idea is even possible, then again even the easiest rail link is hard to get approved off, so God knows where this fits in.

That said, if put in place, this would really help the park with a new form of transport that would make it easier to get to by train, albeit it in slightly more roundabout way. So there we are then, hope you liked this little thing I made.

I won't to show that I'm not a miserable git always but want to help out with my railway consultancy help in any way I can and something for Alton Towers is something I've wanted to do for a while now so...

 

[Matt.GC]

Yep all national motorways are funded from taxation as is most large scale transport infrastructure such as Crossrail which has been planned for about 40 years. The issue isn’t that things are getting built in London, it’s that the government keep cancelling the public transport infrastructure elsewhere. All the northern parts of HS2 have been scaled back as well as northern powerhouse rail. All of these projects should be going ahead.

I agree, which shows where successive governments of both colours put their priorities. Although people moan about it, public transport in London is excellent when compared to the rest of the country. Since it is the capital and is so big, you'd expect it to be better but the gap is colossal.

Even with national rail projects, whilst the rest of us get cuts to projects, the London bits rarely do. Avanti is allowed to go to hell in a hand cart, East Coast is repeatedly nationalised. HS2 is cut back, but not the London bit of course. The Great Western mainline electrification is cut back, not the London side meaning a last minute order had to be put in for Bi-mode trains and 50 year old HST's had to be dragged back at the eleventh hour from their way to the retirement home (which are costing so much to run, GWR are waiting for hand me downs from the capital to replace them). Arriva Wales were still running Pacers until last year which aren't compatible for wheelchair use.

Then you have the cost. I know TFL do a bang up job, but the infrastructure they have is so good that it's hard to justify using anything other than public transport around the capital. Other cities are now following London down the path of congestion charges and clean air zones to price people off the roads but they don't have the public transport infrastructure behind them and they certainly don't have the ticket prices to make public transport a viable option.

I see the railways in particular as another massive issue that's harming this country's ability to be sustainable economically and environmentally in the future just like social care and housing. At some point, some long term cross party planning is needed on all 3 and we just haven't had that for decades now. It's not that we didn't see these issues coming. There's loads of disused railway lines near me and there's even ones that are still there that are in use for freight and badly need passenger services. Trains are old, diesel powered, full and need replacing. The mayor of Bristol is passionate about his underground rail project which will reach large parts of the city that are currently not served at all by rail . But the DFT never wants to know no matter what funding model they come up with. All we see is ribbons being cut on cross rail, a second high speed line getting built and brand new high capacity rolling stock with the old being flogged off everywhere else in the country.

 

[Vik]

I still have fond memories of British Rail on the late 80s. Where one could travel on a clapped out life expired 1st generation diesel multiple unit and see a very fine fog envelope the passenger saloon whilst you inhale the lovely air that smelt of diesel fumes. On the rare occasion a pacer rocked up it was like a breath of fresh air. Some of the finer examples of these trains soldiered on until end of 2003, though most were cans of baked beans by early 90s

Think now that the current second generation diesels such as the Sprinters are as old now as those first gen were when the mass withdrawals started. Think these will be around for a little while longer yet though. (A good 10-15 years I think yet for the long suffering North and Wales to endure them. And no doubt still being put on the Manchester to Cardiff service as 2 carriages because everything else is broken )

 

[Nick🎢]

I worked in the rail industry in a former life so it's an area I have some deep knowledge on. The problems there stem from three things.

1. We didn't get bombed enough in the war. We are still running on infrastructure that was planned for the Victorian era!

2. Where do we build to modernise? Close anything down to do works and everyone moa s. Can't win.

3. The industry is reluctant to (radical) change. "modern" signalling for instance is from the 1970s!

 

[John_P]

There's a multitude of issues. I live in Liverpool and over the years have seen Arriva cut away at bus services. Both in the frequency and routes offered through the week.

Despite living in a major city the bus and local train services basically start shutting down at 11pm. God forbid people might want to stay out just a bit late, or after seeing a gig.

Also intercity travel, I'll regularly travel to Manchester for gigs and your completely at the mercy of the trains and hoping they'll have not cancelled the last train home, and then if its running whether there's enough carriages. So many times I've left on the train from Oxford Road and its already standing room only.

Travelling to say London since Avanti took over the idea of being able to travel quickly and cheaply to London and back seems to be a thing of the past.

Lastly all public transport on a Sunday is still ran as if its the early 90s before the changes to Sunday trading laws. I can just about remember visiting deserted Town centres on Sundays were the only things open seemed to be restaurants and newsagents. However despite this change and Sunday all but a normal day of the week for people who work or are off the public transport is still ran as if everyone is just staying in all day.

 

[NuttySquirrel]

The only people that use public transport in this country are those that literally have no other choice.

You're right @Matt N that public transport in rural areas is poor; this isn't really surprising as most people who live in rural areas own cars due to necessity, and if you're going to foot the overheads of running a car you might as well use it over a slow, infrequent, uncomfortable local bus service.

Over longer distances, trains would seem to offer a faster, more comfortable, greener and cheaper way to travel. This isn't the reality. Taking the train is invariably more expensive than the fuel required to drive, even if you're travelling alone. Frequently there'll be cancellations/delays that mess up all your connections, leaving you stranded in the bowels of Birmingham New Street nursing an awful Pumpkin coffee for over an hour. The train you booked will have been cancelled/you missed the connection, so you'll end up on another one you don't have a seat reservation for. No one understands the seat reservation system anyway and no one sits where they're supposed to so you might as well not bother booking one anyway. The carriage will be overcrowded, hot and smell of armpits. At least three people will be having a loud video conversation or listening to drum and bass on their phone. If you can fight your way to the buffet car you'll be able to buy another awful coffee and an overpriced sandwich that was made four days ago. When you arrive at the other end, chances are you'll be nowhere near where you actually want to be, so you either have to remortgage your house to get a taxi, wait hours for a slow, infrequent, uncomfortable local bus or beg the favour of friends/family to come and pick you up. In which case you might as well have just taken the car, arrived on time, enjoyed a quiet journey with music of your choice on, stopped in a town of your choice for a half-decent lunch, and not inconvenienced your friends.

 

[jon81uk]

The only people that use public transport in this country are those that literally have no other choice.

I don’t think that’s quite true in cities. Where there is a frequent reliable well-priced service it will be chosen even when there are other choices. When living in Birmingham and London I often chose public transport instead of driving.

 

[pluk]

The only people that use public transport in this country are those that literally have no other choice.

I could drive to work, and do on lates as I finish after the trains stop running, but on earlies I choose the train. If I didn't have the option of buying a heavily discounted monthly ticket through work though I'd certainly be driving. The train would just cost too much.

I do choose the bus to my nearest city too, it takes about 10 minutes longer than driving but it saves paying for petrol and parking, and I can grab a cheeky beer or two while I'm waiting for the bus.

I think some people can be tempted across to public transport if the cost and convenience is right, but at the cost things currently are it is a long way from making economic sense for nearly everyone and if you did get the ticket proces that low would it be enough to offset the lower price? Would it run at an even greater loss?

 

[rob666]

The only people that use public transport in this country are those that literally have no other choice.

You're right @Matt N that public transport in rural areas is poor; this isn't really surprising as most people who live in rural areas own cars due to necessity, and if you're going to foot the overheads of running a car you might as well use it over a slow, infrequent, uncomfortable local bus service.

Over longer distances, trains would seem to offer a faster, more comfortable, greener and cheaper way to travel. This isn't the reality. Taking the train is invariably more expensive than the fuel required to drive, even if you're travelling alone. Frequently there'll be cancellations/delays that mess up all your connections, leaving you stranded in the bowels of Birmingham New Street nursing an awful Pumpkin coffee for over an hour. The train you booked will have been cancelled/you missed the connection, so you'll end up on another one you don't have a seat reservation for. No one understands the seat reservation system anyway and no one sits where they're supposed to so you might as well not bother booking one anyway. The carriage will be overcrowded, hot and smell of armpits. At least three people will be having a loud video conversation or listening to drum and bass on their phone. If you can fight your way to the buffet car you'll be able to buy another awful coffee and an overpriced sandwich that was made four days ago. When you arrive at the other end, chances are you'll be nowhere near where you actually want to be, so you either have to remortgage your house to get a taxi, wait hours for a slow, infrequent, uncomfortable local bus or beg the favour of friends/family to come and pick you up. In which case you might as well have just taken the car, arrived on time, enjoyed a quiet journey with music of your choice on, stopped in a town of your choice for a half-decent lunch, and not inconvenienced your friends.

Slow to the party, but add me to the list of using public transport when it is a viable option...more beer with the rollercoasters at Blackpool.
Often done it in the past on rainy days off.
The quality of provision of public transport is not the real point, the service would be used a lot more, by more people, if the buses and trains were clean, linked up properly, and ran to a reliable timetable service.
Covid, and now industrial action, following years of underfunding, means it isn't the viable option it should be.
Make personal transport more expensive through taxation, use that money to improve public transport.
The roads are already full.

 

[pluk]

The pricing structure of trains is hugely frustrating. I know there will always have to be an element of demand led pricing, but currently the peaks and troughs of fairs are extreme and often bear no resemblance of how busy the trains are.

It can cost me about a tenner to do a few stops on my branch line, just a few miles.
If I book in advance I can travel to Norwich well over 100 miles away, including using that same branch line stretch, for less than double the price. What the hell is that? There's no way the short journey should cost so much, there's no way the long journey should cost so little. It needs flattening out so distance and cost have some vague correlation and not booking in advance carries little or no penalty.

 

[rob666]

Add on going to Poland for twenty quid...taxi to town and back costs me that at the weekend.

 

[pluk]

For lack of any place else to dump this, a nice little live departure board thing.

Led Departure Board

Live Train times for all of the UK presented to look like real led departure boards

www.leddepartureboard.com

 

[Matt.GC]

The kids get bored on long journeys and like to move around. I go to the toilet a lot and need to keep moving for my bad back. I also love to have a few beers when riding. BPB has a national rail train station. I also live practically opposite a national rail train station. So it made sense to research trains there right?

Well, instead of £40 in diesel and a just over 7 hour round trip, this would have been the alternative;

 

[BigShadowtinytree]

I’ve just spent most of last week having to get the bus too and from work due to car problems. Whilst it wasn’t too expensive compared to the train (£4.50 for an adult day saver, worth it if you’re getting more than 2 buses), it took a lot longer (an hour) than my usual car journey of 15-20minutes, which I suppose is to be expected to an extent. The main issue is the reliability of the service and how even at the very start of a route out of my local town centre, buses still managed to be either early or late.

Being a few minutes late isn’t the end of the world and I suppose as a country we have kind of got used to that level of service. But I had my mind blown on my trip to Efteling at the end of last year. We got buses and trains from Eindhoven airport to the park and back again at the end of the trip, not only was it really reasonably priced (under €40 in total for a family of 4 each way) everything was on time literally to the minute. If signage says a bus or train is going to be there at a certain time you can guarantee it will be there. Not only that but the transport itself was incredibly clean and routes very clearly sign posted on screens so it’s practically impossible to miss your stop, really good if you don’t know your way around somewhere. Never experienced anything like it. We can only dream of a public transport service like that over here.

 

[rob666]

Double all vehicle taxation, invest that in public transport, stop all new road building, apart from access to new property and businesses.
All this has been discussed at length since the sixties.
Not politically viable though...where there is an option, people pick personal, not public transport, at virtually every opportunity.