• ℹ️ Heads up...

    This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.

Incident on The Smiler 02/06/2015

Status
This topic has been locked. No further replies can be posted.
Craig said:
Absolutely, and that's what winds me up about many media organisations. There's never an aim to gain answers, the sole aim of an interview is to gain a controversial angle which can be published for tomorrow's clickbait. Nothing in life is without risk, you just take steps to minimise it as much as possible, which all theme parks and manufacturers have always done. That doesn't mean you consider things as inherently unsafe, it's just that you've taken all possible steps at the time to minimise that risk. If something happens, then you consider the steps that led to that incident, and consider what (if anything) could be improved.

It's just like cars, no one considers them to be 'inherently unsafe', but a few years down the line - just as with the advent of ABS, traction control, airbags etc there will be something that will be considered as pretty much standard on all cars to improve their safety in the event of an accident.
Click to expand...
You're absolutely right that nothing in life is without risk and I'm certainly not denying that. TheBeast says he'll carry on riding the Smiler as before and I will too but my worry is that the general public just won't see this in the same way as us. People on here keep comparing the risk at a theme park to the risk of say, driving a car or flying a plane and saying it's much safer. However, for the general public, driving to work or going on a holiday with the family or to see relatives in a foreign county is considered a routine part of life. Going to a theme park is not an important part of people's lives and I worry that this will result in many no longer visiting Alton Towers.
 
Tarquin said:
You're absolutely right that nothing in life is without risk and I'm certainly not denying that. TheBeast says he'll carry on riding the Smiler as before and I will too but my worry is that the general public just won't see this in the same way as us. People on here keep comparing the risk at a theme park to the risk of say, driving a car or flying a plane and saying it's much safer. However, for the general public, driving to work or going on a holiday with the family or to see relatives in a foreign county is considered a routine part of life. Going to a theme park is not an important part of people's lives and I worry that this will result in many no longer visiting Alton Towers.
Click to expand...

Oh of course, not denying there will be some sort of impact from regular visitors, although my view is it would be a short term issue. My post was more aimed in response the line of questioning used by Sky News, and describing the ride as inherently unsafe because of the additional safety protocols being introduced.
 
DiogoJ42 said:
They may have been pushed back down to make it easier to get to the other seats.
Click to expand...
looking at the video when it's oscillating moments after the crash you can see one of the right hand seats is empty. Or at least looks that way.

Edit: Row 2, furthest seat to the right (as you're sat on it)
 
Maybe they will though. if they see the Smiler as the big bad ride of Alton Towers, maybe they will see it as a challenge. I fear they wont, but I really hope they do. This was a one-off event, as Varney stated many time the park sees millions of people every year and has had a single proper incident, the Towers dont deserve the stigma they keep getting. Unfortunately, we just have to hope that Alton Towers manage to do the thing that impacts their image the least, although with the media acting the way they are there is no good scenario really

Not trying to be pessamistic though!
 
I am surprised that nobody has mentioned the almost identical accident that happened on Alton Mouse in 1991

Taken from a new defunct site, posted in 2005:




Am i wrong in thinking the several people were once killed on the Alton Mouse (1988 - 1991), several people i spoke to can remember it happening but it doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere on the internet. Either the cart came off the track or someone bang their head on a bar. Ring any bells?

Nobody has been killed on the Alton Mouse.


The incident happened at the start of the 1991 season (the rides last year at the Towers).

I was there that day and remember the area being closed off with helicopters flying above. It was until I got home that I knew what had happened.

A car stalled on the second big drop. The ride shut down as designed, with other cars held at various blocks before and after the stalled car. The ride operator re-started the ride thinking that the stalled car (which had valleyed) would also start and continue its journey. Of course it couldn't, but since the ride had been restarted the stalled car effectively vanished. A second car collided with it.

The report in to the incident found that the member of staff had inadequate training. She also had access to keys that allowed her to override the block system, a procedure that should only authorised by a more qualified person, such as maintenance. Alton Towers were fined.
 
PeteB said:
Further to the above, and despite the outrage across the internet at Kay Burley, Sky news have just posted this on their Facebook page an hour ago:

"The boss of the park has told Sky News safety measures "weren't adequate" at the attraction."

Liars! Blatant Liars!
Click to expand...
But he did say on Smiler they clearly weren't adequate because they had the incident. So Sky are right (no matter how much people might not like the style of the interview).

If 4 people have had life changing injuries, and were lucky they weren't killed then even AT's biggest fan would have to admit they weren't adequate.

In the interview he also suggested that there might be some hardware, as well as procedural, changes. I suspect that is what is delaying the re-opening of the park. It takes time to get the parts to make the changes, and then to test and re-commission the rides. If it was purely procedural and staff re-training, I would have thought they would have been able to re-open tomorrow (having captured training of the weekend staff today). But I suspect they may want to re-open on a less busy day - I predict Tuesday or Wednesday myself. Almost certainly they will be extra cautious with the operation of the rides, especially with modified procedures, and you want to bed them in on less busy days first. Last thing they need is lots of disgruntled customers first day of re-opening.
 
Slightly off topic, but that Sky news interview reminds me massively of the film Nightcrawler - essentially about how news corporations sensationalise stories - a line in the film that epitomises it: "if it bleeds, it leads".



Sky only care about ratings. They will get away with anything they legally can get away with. The woman clearly isn't stupid, she just has a strong agenda of her own.

Jesus if you think Sky is bad read the Daily Mail for literal absolute crap printed 24/7.
 
Whilst I cannot deny that Nick Varney did indeed say during the interview that safety measures on The Smiler "weren't adequate", I think it's the way in which this is being interpreted that is incorrect. I'm sure that many members of the public - and quite clearly as a result of the media - are portraying this as a statement that Merlin knew that safety measures weren't rigorous enough to prevent such an accident. To me this says that a contribution of factors (whatever they turn out to be) that couldn't be predicted led to this accident; not every possibility could be foreseen when designing safety protocols. It isn't wrong to say that safety measures "weren't adequate" after a major incident, but this shouldn't lead to blame towards anybody.
 
That quote is simply taken out of context for Sky to get views on their site and for the thick people at home reading these things to be like 'oh ma godz, da smilr is death and alrton toers is SUPERA danegros neva going ther agan!!!!'

Media is about the short term now, jump on the most extreme points, take things out of context, scare the public and then move on to the next story a week later.
 
James said:
That quote is simply taken out of context for Sky to get views on their site and for the thick people at home reading these things to be like 'oh ma godz, da smilr is death and alrton toers is SUPERA danegros neva going ther agan!!!!'

Media is about the short term now, jump on the most extreme points, take things out of context, scare the public and then move on to the next story a week later.
Click to expand...

Sad your impression of someone intellectually challenged didn't go on for longer to be honest.
 
Thats the one positive with this...the media will drop it in a weeks time. That reduces the amount of stigma directed towards Alton, although it shouldnt be happening anyways
 
JayM said:
Whilst I cannot deny that Nick Varney did indeed say during the interview that safety measures on The Smiler "weren't adequate", I think it's the way in which this is being interpreted that is incorrect. I'm sure that many members of the public - and quite clearly as a result of the media - are portraying this as a statement that Merlin knew that safety measures weren't rigorous enough to prevent such an accident. To me this says that a contribution of factors (whatever they turn out to be) that couldn't be predicted led to this accident; not every possibility could be foreseen when designing safety protocols. It isn't wrong to say that safety measures "weren't adequate" after a major incident, but this shouldn't lead to blame towards anybody.
Click to expand...
Blame does need to be sought to a degree though. If you don't figure out where the blame lies then you don't know where to make changes to ensure events like this never happen again.
James said:
That quote is simply taken out of context for Sky to get views on their site and for the thick people at home reading these things to be like 'oh ma godz, da smilr is death and alrton toers is SUPERA danegros neva going ther agan!!!!'

Media is about the short term now, jump on the most extreme points, take things out of context, scare the public and then move on to the next story a week later.
Click to expand...
I think it's a bit harsh to rip into the general public just because they're not roller-coaster enthusiasts and therefore won't have the same level of knowledge as us about how these things work. Especially as the head of the company that owns Alton Towers himself admitted the safety measures weren't adequate (in or out of context). Anyway, as has been discussed before, I agree that any drop in visitor numbers will probably be most likely limited to this year. The winter break will probably be a godsend in ensuring that the memory of this event fades - at least to the general public, if not to Alton Towers themselves.
 
TheBeast agrees... the reak will be an absolute godsend, but it is a while off. They need it soon so they can change things...its unfortunate we are not even halfway through the season yet. In a way, I hope they do rebrand it tbh, I think its necessary
 
the general public seem poorly informed due to the rubbish the media are talking. I was in a shop waiting in a queue when a kid points out the newspaper with a picture of SAW being closed, she said something to her mum about the smiler and her mum replies, they have had to close them all because they are "death traps" from whet the news has said (FACE PALM)
 
Tarquin said:
Blame does need to be sought to a degree though. If you don't figure out where the blame lies then you don't know where to make changes to ensure events like this never happen again.
Click to expand...

Oh without a doubt! I was referencing more the fact that at the moment, before details of what caused the event have been released, we can't blame Merlin for inadequate safety as the media seem to be using Varney's quote as an excuse for. Safeguards definitely need to be implemented to prevent this set of tragic circumstances from happening again - no matter how small the risk may be.
 
phildenholm said:
the general public seem poorly informed due to the rubbish the media are talking. I was in a shop waiting in a queue when a kid points out the newspaper with a picture of SAW being closed, she said something to her mum about the smiler and her mum replies, they have had to close them all because they are "death traps" from whet the news has said (FACE PALM)
Click to expand...

There are not enough facepalm memes on the internet....
 
Tarquin said:
I think it's a bit harsh to rip into the general public just because they're not roller-coaster enthusiasts and therefore won't have the same level of knowledge as us about how these things work. Especially as the head of the company that owns Alton Towers himself admitted the safety measures weren't adequate (in or out of context). Anyway, as has been discussed before, I agree that any drop in visitor numbers will probably be most likely limited to this year. The winter break will probably be a godsend in ensuring that the memory of this event fades - at least to the general public, if not to Alton Towers themselves.
Click to expand...

I'm not ripping into anyone. Just making a joke at those who read these things, believe it and think it's true :)

Most people see these dramatic things in the media and it doesn't affect them. Then you get that small percentage that will read that, think Alton Towers is some death trap and if they go there they will be 6 feet under.
 
Status
This topic has been locked. No further replies can be posted.
Top