Incident on The Smiler 02/06/2015

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by spinba11, 2nd Jun 2015.

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  1. chilli2

    chilli2 TowersStreet Member

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    And the Human operator will only do what the system lets Him/Her do.
    Human error is a vastly complicated web to untangle, with a huge range of contributing factors some of which could be:
    why did the system let the operator make a mistake?
    Are the staff under any pressure to get things moving?
    is there any sort of incentive, or other such scheme that highlights throughput, ie number of riders per hour/day etc?
    had the operator/staff had enough sleep the night before?
    Is there any work related stress that could cause lack of sleep?
    Was/are the staff suffering from any ailment/sickness ?
    Does Alton Towers/Merlin pay staff sickpay? if not then staff may feel they have to come into work not feeling 100% which will have an adverse effect on performance
    Is the job stimulating enough, or do / can staff become bored on the job resulting in a lack of concentration

    And thats just some of the things that can contribute towards human error in any field of work
     
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  2. Dave

    Dave TS Founding Member

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    As had been said they have taken responsibility but not liability. They have said they will support the families directly themselves. I imagine if an external party turns out to be responsible Merlin would counter sue them.

    Basically no one knows what happened.
     
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  3. bluesonichd

    bluesonichd TowersStreet Member

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    I dont thinkk we will ever know what happened, i cant see merlin releasing a full statement saying 'this is what happened'
    So we will all keep going round and round in circles guessing till will get tired and find something else to talk about
     
  4. XXBENNXX

    XXBENNXX TowersStreet Member

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    I am not going to argue with what you are saying, however i am pretty confident of what the outcome ks going to be.

    i do believe it was a genuine mistake, and there are definitely outside influences that led up to it, one of the major ones likely to be pressure from management to get the ride going asap.

    Also in my opinion, Gerstlauer being silent also speaks volumes to their lack of responsibility. I am not slating anybody, this was a genuine accident, it will not deter me from my twice annual 4 hour drive to towers.
     
  5. Rob

    Rob TS Forum Team Team Member

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    I agree that there are likely no major Gerstlauer issues. The fact that all of their other coasters around the world (bar Saw as Merlin want to take a precaution) have been operating as usual ever since. When someone was killed on the ZacSpin at Terra Mitica last year I believe that all other Intamin ZacSpin's shut immediately whilst it was looked into.

    :)
     
  6. Dave

    Dave TS Founding Member

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    There is no obligation for Gerstlaur to say anything really at the moment or close other rides. Towers have confirmed the ride testing today is HSE related, you would think human error would be fairly obvious, so you have to wonder why they are running the ride as part of the investigation.

    Basically you can twist the known facts to fit any eventuality so claiming fact is pointless at the moment.
     
    Last edited: 10th Jun 2015
  7. Rob

    Rob TS Forum Team Team Member

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    I'm sure the HSE will cover all possibilities in their investigation to come to a solid conclusion. It's clear why they are running the ride (to me), it enables them to 'rein-act' what happened and see what the ride can/can't do, does/doesn't allow etc. I'd imagine they will want to find ways of stopping it from ever happening again as well.

    :)
     
  8. Dave

    Dave TS Founding Member

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    Or they are trying to force the ride to breach a block again.

    As said all the known facts can be twisted to suit any theory. We just don't know what is actually the truth and speculation is fine but I think we need to be cautious taking assumption as fact.
     
  9. NickN

    NickN TowersStreet Member

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    I agree and would find it unthinkable that were the crash caused by a manufacturer defect, they would still be happy allowing all other rides by the same manufacturer continue to operate.

    If a railway train derails due to a track defect (infrastructure problem), as happened many years ago, the whole network was more or less shut down for immediate inspections.
    But if it derails due to a driver defect (human error) then apart from the short term consequences locally, everything else carries on. Afterwards, new training and safety awareness takes place to try and prevent a re-occurrence.

    But in all scenarios, HSE (or in above cases, HMRI) will take all appropriate actions to try and identify the cause of the defect or human error, and understand how such error could have happened. This can include re-enactments, detailed analysis of prior shift patterns, phone records, weather, brake functionality, were all instruments and monitors working correctly, influence from outside, distractions, etc. Re-enactments are often very good at highlighting potential areas for problems which a simple paper exercise would miss.

    All things considered, human error seems most likely at the moment. But we may be surprised.
     
  10. Dave

    Dave TS Founding Member

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    The only two Gerst coasters in the UK that run multiple trains on the system are closed. It would be up to gerst or individual parks abroad to close any other rides.

    Again anything can suit any theory.

    I obviously have an opinion but I can't see anything that indicates any particular outcome over another at the moment. Both ride failure and staff error have their own strength and weaknesses.
     
  11. MichelinMan

    MichelinMan TowersStreet Member

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    Pretty good post - there is a document on the HSE website that describes types of human error. It is a PDF, so doesn't copy and paste well I'm afraid.

    www.hse.gov.uk/humanfactors/topics/types.pdf
     
  12. Leah

    Leah TowersStreet Member

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  13. Rob

    Rob TS Forum Team Team Member

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    Indeed, I did say that I'd imagine their investigation will be covering everything and I'm sure it will include that.

    :)
     
  14. markfranklin

    markfranklin TowersStreet Member

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    Has 'Rage' at Adventure Island been closed? Whilst not a Merlin park, I believe this ride is a Gerstlauer Euro Fighter, like Saw?
     
  15. MichelinMan

    MichelinMan TowersStreet Member

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    Have AT really said that running the ride is part of the HSE investigation, at HSE's request? If so, then that to me would signal that there might be more to this than just human error. They might be trying to replicate something going wrong (such as a software bug). If it was purely human error, I can't really see a need to run the ride as part of their investigation.

    I suspect AT may be being economical with the truth a bit with regards the HSE investigation, however. For example, it suits them to be able to blame the HSE for X Sector being closed - but once the cars have been removed, the HSE won't need any room around the ride at all to do their investigation. The only other equipment they might have brought in would be some 3D cameras to map the site, but they would have done that before the cars were moved. No, I suspect the closure of X Sector is purely due to Merlin's wishes (and who could blame them).

    And I am therefore sceptical that the running of the cars is really part of the HSE investigation.
     
  16. Scott

    Scott Former TS Team Member

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    From TowersStreet Facebook:

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Slugjc

    Slugjc TowersStreet Member

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    they are either trying to replicate what happened. Demonstrate the rides operating system. Or they have done what they need now trying to evaluate how to improve the ride safety. This may have been said before. I do apologise.

    I wouldn't look at change.org. Nothing ever comes of these.
     
  18. Tarquin

    Tarquin TowersStreet Member

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    I asked a similar question a while ago. It is still operating and they've even discussed the issue in the local press in an attempt to reassure people:

    http://m.echo-news.co.uk/news/13319818.Southend_rollercoaster_is_safe/

    I've never been on the ride before but it doesn't appear to have block sections in the same way that the Smiler and Saw do so I'm not sure if it would be affected in the same way.

    EDIT: Interestingly in that same article they said they've discussed the situation with Gerstlauer who say to continue operating the ride as before.
     
  19. EuroSatch

    EuroSatch TowersStreet Member

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    I don't think trying to replicate what happened proves anything either way. After RTCs they spend time at the scene and try to establish exactly what happened - obviously recreating accidents is more difficult with vehicles, but they will do everything they can to establish causes and eliminate scenarios until they come to the root cause
     
  20. MichelinMan

    MichelinMan TowersStreet Member

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    Thanks Scott - I stand corrected then. I would say this is highly unusual for a HSE investigation though, and does suggest to me there might be some technical issues, as well as human error. Alternatively, it could be Merlin demonstrating their new enhanced safety protocols to the HSE to enable the Prohibition Notice to be lifted - but technically that isn't part of the investigation, more enforcement follow up work.

    I can categorically state, though, that they aren't running the cars to determine improvements that need to be made - that is totally down to Merlin to do.
     
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