Is Alton Towers a world class theme park?

[TheMan]

If Towers had the same ride hardware but had actually built and themed them well we wouldn't be having this debate.

Yes I agree with that, but the hardware alone doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

BG is good, for that style of ride I think it probably does edge towards high class if not quite world class.

And let's not forget Dark Forest is a miserable area, I really was looking forward to it, but there's a difference between being intimidating and dark (Oblivion) and depressing. RITA was fun before, they ruined what wasn't the best theme, but what was at least a light fun area of the park to be in.

The music, theme, colours etc in DF are just dour, and the much discussed scaffolding.

The point is here, is it world class? No, because the hardware alone doesn't make it so when it's not of the highest standards.

With some capital investment these things are easy to fix and put the park right up there, no, not in Universal territory, they raised the bar, given the locale it would be folly to expect them to compete with the restrictions. I wont use the normal EP comparisons either to be fair, but there's many things they could do - both to the existing hardware, the surroundings, the quality of fixtures and fittings/theme/decor that they use, and the general attitude towards their customers that could put them up there as a true world destination.

So I agree entirely with your point, in fact it's not one I've disagreed with at all, every park has their standout attractions and lesser ones, but it's what you do with them that makes it world class.

 

[Dave]

But @TheMan that wasn't the argument in your original rebuttal to me, you argued against the hardware, we have no disagreement on the quality of the theming (or lack there of).

 

[Dar]

I'd say it's a world class park but it's definitely one of the lower class ones. It doesn't come close to EP, EuroDisney, PA, Phantasialand, Universal, Disney World, Disneyland, or even Parc Asterix! But it's better than Holiday Park, Efteling, Fun Spot, Thorpe and the like.

 

[TheMan]

But @TheMan that wasn't the argument in your original rebuttal to me, you argued against the hardware, we have no disagreement on the quality of the theming (or lack there of).

My point has been poorly made then. And it was in direct reference to a quote of yours that

The ride Hardware (including the modern stuff) is top class.

That's not true. ABC, a smallish (but good, I like it, remember) accelerator, a basic Intamin with a gimmick (a good one yes, that bit's rather fabulous to be fair), and a Gerst Infinity (which again is very good, but it's not top class) and a Mack Splash battle which is pretty basic but well themed.

That's not top class hardware. In some cases it's very good hardware, but it's not well themed, it's not well maintained, and it doesn't compare to earlier installations when I would say the rides they were building were without doubt world class.

I still don't think for sheer madness for a new coaster design that Oblivion has been bettered.

So comparatively, the hardware isn't top class.

I didn't say it wasn't good.

 

[Ketz]

Having recently visited Florida and literally a week later going to Alton the main thing that stands out straight away is upkeep, I am not a themepark fanatic but alton just seemed darker, not as welcoming and generally dirty.

There is no doubt i probably got more thrill in one day at Alton than the entire visit in Orlando. But the atmosphere and experience at Alton was dire. Theming of rides really does make the difference,

Probably the best experience in Orlando and I call it experience rather than just a ride was the Hogwarts Express. Now I know it Harry Potter and it's probably the strongest IP around at the moment but the actual ride is so incredible simple but so impressive and immersive. It only travels about 400 meters, you are only watching a TV screen and it's basically a cable car placed on the floor, but it's amazing.

Surely Alton can create an experience like this rather than a basic ride with little theming or atmosphere.

 

[TheMan]

Surely Alton can create an experience like this rather than a basic ride with little theming or atmosphere.

I have no doubt they could. In the past that's exactly what they did do. Technology has progressed so far, the limit is so often budget and imagination - generally there's been no lack of the latter, but there's certainly restrictions now on the former.

 

[Dave]

My point has been poorly made then. And it was in direct reference to a quote of yours that



That's not true. ABC, a smallish (but good, I like it, remember) accelerator, a basic Intamin with a gimmick (a good one yes, that bit's rather fabulous to be fair), and a Gerst Infinity (which again is very good, but it's not top class) and a Mack Splash battle which is pretty basic but well themed.

That's not top class hardware. In some cases it's very good hardware, but it's not well themed, it's not well maintained, and it doesn't compare to earlier installations when I would say the rides they were building were without doubt world class.

I still don't think for sheer madness for a new coaster design that Oblivion has been bettered.

So comparatively, the hardware isn't top class.

I didn't say it wasn't good.

So what is top class?

As you have pretty much lambasted the top manufacturers in the world. ABC isn't top class, neither is Zamperla but plenty of top class parks have these rides in their parks.

@Sam post was the most concise and relevant post when it comes to looking at the ride hardware of the park, which I might add is better overall than a lot of well loved parks on this forum.

The issue as has been mentioned is theming quality, maintenance and value for money, these prevent the park being top level, but it is world class (as is Thorpe)

 

[Tarin Maria]

Woah. Sorry, but no. When was the last time someone went to Thorpe an actually enjoyed themselves? A Park does not become outstanding simply because of the rides it possesses. And Thorpe's line up is actually pretty poor.

 

[Dave]

Woah. Sorry, but no. When was the last time someone went to Thorpe an actually enjoyed themselves? A Park does not become outstanding simply because of the rides it possesses. And Thorpe's line up is actually pretty poor.

Woah no sorry, put it up against the parks of the world it rates quite highly as a day out, certainly in the top 50%

I HATE thorpe but even I'm not blind enough not to see that. It's simple comparison. I know it's easier to see things as a binary good or bad but the world doesn't exist like that.

 

[Tarin Maria]

So, the top 50% are world class parks? Even though families have to take out a loan to get into a Merlin park? And don't even get me started on Chessie.

 

[TheMan]

So what is top class?

As you have pretty much lambasted the top manufacturers in the world.

I take issue with that, show me where I have lambasted the top manufacturers in the world?

Did I say Intamin were rubbish? B&M? Perhaps Mack?

One thing having a debate, an entirely different matter picking and choosing context.

Intamin:
World Class: Kingda Ka, Top Thrill Dragster etc.... RITA?
Maurer? Not even going there.
RMT? A world class mine train?


Alton Towers have two world class rides, and one that had potential to be in The Smiler but the lack of care and willingness to finish it properly saw to that, a position I have maintained through various posts.

Your argument fails on the fact I like Rita, I think the Intamin freefall drop is clever and I enjoy it, The Smiler is a great coaster but it's let down, and absolutely no where have I actually lambasted the manufacturers.

Nemesis and Oblivion have, and remain for me, world class coasters - the theme of one of which is falling sadly into disrepair.

 

[Ketz]

I am no expert but surely it's the designers that create the rides and determine whether they good or otherwise. I have no clue on who these manufacturers are, but surely if you have a great plan, design and story anyone could actually build the ride.

 

[Dave]

So, the top 50% are world class parks? Even though families have to take out a loan to get into a Merlin park? And don't even get me started on Chessie.

I would say anything in the top 25% is, and I never mentioned chessie and must have mentioned stupidly high Merlin pricing policy about 5 times now as a reason that limits these parks.

One thing having a debate, an entirely different matter picking and choosing context.



Your argument fails on the fact I like Rita, I think the Intamin freefall drop is clever and I enjoy it, The Smiler is a great coaster but it's let down, and absolutely no where have I actually lambasted the manufacturers.

Nemesis and Oblivion have, and remain for me, world class coasters - the theme of one of which is falling sadly into disrepair.

I would say you write the book on picking and choosing context but that debate edges towards personal attack.

All those rides you mention (with the exception maybe of 13) are not let down by their hardware but by the lack of thought into their theming. Something we both agree on, the base of this argument is whether Towers hardware is world class, I refer you again to Sams post.

 

[James]

The hardware is brilliant. Although when you go beyond that the park feels dilapidated. It even feels depressing to walk around most of the park. The obvious lack of care to rides, attractions and areas, mixed in with limited theming (in some places), quiet music and no immersion just feels all together sad.

The only time I feel like I'm in a world class theme park is when I'm riding a roller coaster (minus Sonic and Rita) or Hex. The minute I'm off a ride I don't really feel like I'm anywhere that special.

 

[GaryH]

Interesting topic indeed.

My thoughts on this - I am somewhere in the middle. A visit to Alton Towers for me isn't just down to the rides, or the resort, but also the company I am with, how busy it is, the weather, etc etc. I feel its memories which make the magic, not so much the rides.

Anyway, going back to the initial question. Yes, the rides there are world class. Many are first of a kind prototypes, and if you think how reliable they are (The Smiler excluded last year) then its very impressive. I agree with others however that its the themeing and the lack of maintenance of the the themeing that lets the rides down. The scaffolding around Rita and Thirteen is a fine example. The lack of any themeing in the Air tunnel another.

The resort as a whole, again, I wouldnt say "world class", but then again, what is world class? Are we comparing Alton to Disney here?

I dont think any theme park "resort" is perfect, Disney will have its issues, but Alton as a location is world class, its unique, it has a magic about it that no other park has, the food in the resort isnt too bad, just overpriced, the hotels are nice but yes could be better, and I think thats the problem with Alton. Ive said it before, but instead of excelling it just accepts "ok" as the standard to aim for.

If they just went that extra mile to polish off the things that they do, the rides and themeing they install, then yes it could definitely be world class.

Anyway, regardless of this, like I said, its the memories I have, and the memories to come which draw me to Alton. Its a place to go where I can escape reality for a day or two, a place where I can choose to go on the rides, or wander around the gardens and relax in the spa. I think its on the correct side of the scale leaning towards "world class" but it just needs that extra push. Unfortunately, with Merlin at the reigns, I think Alton will continue to remain in "ok" territory.

 

[Burbs]

I often walk around the park quite bored. Now one could argue that this is due to the frequency of visits to the park, but in reality, you shouldn't be walking around the theme park bored, as there should be sights, sounds and smells everywhere to immerse you. Unfortunately that's not the case, which is a real shame.

I would love for someone who genuinely cared to out buy Alton Towers (or the whole of M£RLIN really) and turn the park into a real world class one.

 

[Tarin Maria]

But apart from Nemesis and Oblivion, what at Towers is a true WORLD CLASS ride?
And what, if anything, at Thorpe is a WORLD CLASS ride?
Not a good ride, one of the best in the world.
The staff at Thorpe can't even batch their trains efficiently!
Look at how often Thorpe oversell tickets to limited events or fast tracks.
Towers looks filthy, I don't feel like 5 year old me at Towers, can't feel any magic, not like at Europa, even Parque Warner made an impact. Nobody seems to CARE about any of the Merlin parks any more. That is the biggest problem.

 

[TheMan]

I would say you write the book on picking and choosing context but that debate edges towards personal attack.

I don't mind, I am interested to know where I lambasted the manufacturers.

I am allowed to both enjoy a ride, and compare it to other rides by the same manufacturer that I would define as world class.

No where have I said Alton Towers lacks world class rides, that the manufacturers are bad or anything of such. I am not saying the hardware is bad - what I am saying is, they are not top class, because they're not.

There are world class versions of all those rides, except The Smiler, which is certainly a great coaster but I am going to be laughing my way around this thread is people suddenly start saying they make world class rides just to disagree with a post of mine. They lack a refinement or star quality, I do however think they may get there, and they're not all that far off IMO, and all the better for it. They are most certainly improving and developing.

So my post was in no way aimed at any manufacturer, all of them make rides I enjoy for goodness sake so why would I? Makes no sense.

Perhaps to avoid any misinterpretation I should say this:

B&M have two of their world class rides at Alton Towers. Intamin have a very inventive world's first that didn't fulfill it's obvious potential. Gerst have arguably their finest installation to date with Karnan looking to take that crown potentially, and to be fair to Gerst the Infinity looks extremely flexible and good value for a park, so expect to see more insane layouts.

So they have top class manufacturers, yes, that's true, but do they have, aside from the obvious much loved, top class designs from those top class manufacturers? No.

 

[Ketz]

Do you think money would ever be spent on upkeep and ride improvements? I mean serious money.

Another experience I feel is seriously lacking is the food. The burger are terrible, and what is it with offering terrible pub food everywhere. Where is the quality food. i now I keep going back to my experience in Orlando but I must have waited about 30 minutes to buy butter beer, and another 20 minutes to try a drink I've never heard of in Gaston tavern at Disney. Both tasted terrible but I still loved every minute of it. I would to see alton add these sort of experiences and if done right they would make a fortune, and for what I can tell that is what Merlin love the most.

 

[James]

Do you think money would ever be spent on upkeep and ride improvements? I mean serious money.

Other big theme parks do. Or at least have an ongoing rolling program on ride upkeep and improvements. So Alton Towers could. Merlin Entertainments are a big enough company to support far more money for upkeep. Although they won't.