When American Adventure first opened, it was basically variations on a Wild West theme, which you could argue was too narrow. They did try to broaden things out with Space Port, but by the time they did this area, they were already scaling back their budgets, and didn't have much money left for theming. I actually think that America would be a really good theme for a park: a Mardi Gras New Orleans area, a Hollywood area, a 1920s gangster Chicago area, maybe a San Francisco area with an Alcatraz attraction. I don't know if there ever has been a really good American themed park though. The Wild West stuff at Knott's Berry Farm is incredible. I'm not sure if the other areas have lived up to it, although the re-themed Mexican area could be really good. California Adventure was very good, albeit themed to one state. It was just too small at the start, and now it's bigger they'ved diluted the theme with things like Pixar Pier.
-
ℹ️ Heads up...
This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.
Is there a future for second tier parks in the UK?
- Thread starter AstroDan
- Start date
I think the 87/88 vintage stuff American Adventure had was great, unfortunately some of it was just screwed about with in the 90s and then left to rot in the 00s. Fort St Lawrence and Silver City looked great to the end.
Ted
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Kondaa
Even though I agree with most of the points people have made about the second tier parks, I think another topic that can be discussed is how the secondary parks of most countries have evolved.
Basically by secondary I mean like the 2nd most popular park in a country or region. For example you have Europa as Germany's primary park and Phantasialand would be secondary. Phantasia has added 2 world class coasters in just 4 years, Asterix has had at least 2 major investments since 2012, Walibi Holland has had an RMC conversion and a Mack Big Dipper, Grona Lund has built a B&M invert, Plopsa has installed a massive Mack Extreme Spinner and so many others and that's even getting into your 3rd/4th/5th best parks
Now compare that with the utter garbage Thorpe have added since 2012 and you'll see the problem goes much higher
Basically by secondary I mean like the 2nd most popular park in a country or region. For example you have Europa as Germany's primary park and Phantasialand would be secondary. Phantasia has added 2 world class coasters in just 4 years, Asterix has had at least 2 major investments since 2012, Walibi Holland has had an RMC conversion and a Mack Big Dipper, Grona Lund has built a B&M invert, Plopsa has installed a massive Mack Extreme Spinner and so many others and that's even getting into your 3rd/4th/5th best parks
Now compare that with the utter garbage Thorpe have added since 2012 and you'll see the problem goes much higher
Benzin
TS Member
I think a key factor in all but one of those examples is that they're all owned by groups. Makes a big difference when we've got one group who are happy with the monopoly.
Even then some of the smaller regional parks install some decent quality rides. Though I also wonder how much is down to far more restrictive planning over here as well. Let alone trying to get the locals onside.
I'd also say that our continental friends seem to have a far more friendly rivalry in terms of management. Why else would a Plopsa AP get you discounts in many other competitors?
Even then some of the smaller regional parks install some decent quality rides. Though I also wonder how much is down to far more restrictive planning over here as well. Let alone trying to get the locals onside.
I'd also say that our continental friends seem to have a far more friendly rivalry in terms of management. Why else would a Plopsa AP get you discounts in many other competitors?
Ted
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Kondaa
That's definitely good point and one I don't disagree with. Even so though having a major park near one of the biggest cities in the world and still a fair bit away from Towers for most people and getting the investment it has had for 10 years is a bad move,
George W
TS Member
I wonder if the competition could have seen us some game changing investment from Merlin.
Benjsh
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance
AT is 100% not a second tier European Park. Most people who don't live here and therefore haven't visited the place numerous times like we have, can't speak highly enough of the place.
Not many parks in Europe have the coaster collection Towers has either for example. Very rare to see 3 B&M's at any non American park.
It's 100% in the 'Premier League' for European Theme Parks still.
Jb85
TS Member
It's Manchester United / Old Trafford
A once grand establishment with the best with the best available that has sadly been left to rot.
I'm still amazed the South west doesn't have a first tier park or even a second tier one for that matter. Creelys is barley even third tier especially when you consider how popular Cornwall, Devon and Somerset are on the summer with families and the weather is generally better.
Benjsh
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance
Tread carefully. I'm from Manchester and a big red. Hahahaha.
But I get what you mean though. It's nowhere near as bad as some people describe it is. It has a fantastic coaster selection and a brilliant kiddies area. It's lacking in some other areas but so do most parks. Not every park in Europe in Europa Parc.
QTXAdsy
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Black Hole
Scotland certainly has all the potential to have a second tier park yet a combination of bad luck (Loudoun) and just utterly scumbag owners (M&D's) really let thr country down though the latter actually still has the potential to actually become this if only the owners finally got the boot who bizarrely when you think about are like Merlin on a much smaller and worse scale in terms of keeping a monopoly.
That land doesn't have any planning restrictions in place compared to other locations, excellent transport links already in place, smack bang between Edinburgh, Glasgow and the North of England and is a park than any sensible owner would have utterly killed to have.
If we had a Paultons situation there which was seeing major investment in theme rides and areas and accommodation then it would be a worth while park that would easily be a great second tier park. Maybe even even join the top tier which honestly given the state of the likes of Towers, Thorpe and BPB is honestly not that difficult to beat the more you think about it. I can see Paultons actually reaching to the top within the next few years and I don't want to kick many of our parks here. Some do deserve flack like M&D's and Merlin but others in truth giving their struggles to attract attention need our support and simply shrugging them off as crap compared to what you see on the Continent creates a vicious circle in which no attendance = low investment = poor rides = bad press and repeat that.
I honestly don't know how to word it but I think we need to have a long term mindset to support a park for it to reach its full potential, even some guerilla marketing from fans to promote these parks might actually be the one good thing from the cost of living in which with their lower entry prices compared to any Merlin park that would make them attractive for most families, there is a vacuum there ready to be exploited and here is an opertunity for a so called secondary UK park to make a name for themselves.
That land doesn't have any planning restrictions in place compared to other locations, excellent transport links already in place, smack bang between Edinburgh, Glasgow and the North of England and is a park than any sensible owner would have utterly killed to have.
If we had a Paultons situation there which was seeing major investment in theme rides and areas and accommodation then it would be a worth while park that would easily be a great second tier park. Maybe even even join the top tier which honestly given the state of the likes of Towers, Thorpe and BPB is honestly not that difficult to beat the more you think about it. I can see Paultons actually reaching to the top within the next few years and I don't want to kick many of our parks here. Some do deserve flack like M&D's and Merlin but others in truth giving their struggles to attract attention need our support and simply shrugging them off as crap compared to what you see on the Continent creates a vicious circle in which no attendance = low investment = poor rides = bad press and repeat that.
I honestly don't know how to word it but I think we need to have a long term mindset to support a park for it to reach its full potential, even some guerilla marketing from fans to promote these parks might actually be the one good thing from the cost of living in which with their lower entry prices compared to any Merlin park that would make them attractive for most families, there is a vacuum there ready to be exploited and here is an opertunity for a so called secondary UK park to make a name for themselves.
Tim
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Air / Blue Fire
I have to disagree with parts of this. I also wouldn't call it a second tier park but its not in the 'Premier League'.
At this point Alton's only real claim to fame is a pretty good ride lineup. Sure 3 B&M's was very impressive, when they built them, in the early 2000s. But they are still coasting on that claim today.
Meanwhile parks in Europe have made massive leps forward. Phantasialand for example might only have 1 B&M but Taron and F.L.Y are incredible rides unlike anything Alton have ever built.
Even the parks that weren't known for having amazing thrill coaster lineups like Europa and Efteling are catching up or have surpassed Alton's lineup. And they offer so much more than just coasters!
The only other park in Europe that's stayed the same is Disneyland Paris, which sadly is all general guests in the UK seems to compare against.
I still class Alton as a top tier park as it is the UKs best offering. The estate is an amazing backdrop and there's so much potential.
Jb85
TS Member
Matt.GC
TS Member
But where would you put it? A lot of rugged terrain and beautiful coastline in Cornwall where you can't really build anything substantial and Cornwall can become so remote that apart from holiday makers it makes the park unreachable within a couple of hours from almost every major settlement in the UK.
Devon fares better but a large mass of it is national park and it's not renown for having a decent road network and again is barely reachable for a day or 2 out from a substantial amount of where the UK major population centres are. Only really Exeter, Bristol, Gloucester, Newport and Cardiff at a push would be within easy reach.
Somewhere close to the M5 or M4 in Somerset would be within easy traveling distance of Exeter, Bristol, Gloucester, Newport, Cardiff, Birmingham, Swindon, the home counties and London so would nail most issues in terms of geographical reach. But then you're starting to get quite a traveling distance away from Cornwall so defeating part of the original idea. The Somerset levels will be out of the question, so are the coastal towns, there's not really any formal industrial brownfield land around the major towns and cities like you get in other parts of the UK and most of the rest is pretty much green belt. So although the business case would be there, the make-up of the geography isn't.
So that's why I'd imagine you don't really have anything more substantial than Woodlands, Big Sheep, Crealy, Brean etc.