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Monorail Refurbishment

WillPS said:
Alstom now. And it's basically a coincidence that they've ended up in the same ownership. Derby have never worked on a monorail like this, the ones they've turned out are modern mass transit units.
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yeah, I feel like people expect that if X factory was owned by the people who made it X factory can make it, the world doesn't work like that. Factories are often specialised, I am not sure what Derby dose but there are often different factories, with some being an assembly, another being part X manufacture, another for part Y manufacture, etc. the assembly may focus on one type of device (a train in this example) but the manufacture could be a more generalised parts, which may go to multiple factories, assembly factories can also do manufacturing, but it is often for more specialised parts (or low number production). assembly and manufacturing you need very different tools (CNC, etc) and these tools are often specialised (custom tooling, moulds, etc) to allow for them to manufacture some parts

given the age of the monorail I would be surprised if they have any of the original tooling to be able to make the trains again. they probably have the original design but to make anything they would probably first have to remake the tooling, which for some components (e.g nose cone) it could be timely and expensive. on top of this, all of the technology is very old so much of it may not be made and then you easily get into a scenario of a (high) multi million pound investment for Alstom to get in and refurb it.
 
I have to wonder.... how hard can it be ... to run newer rolling stock on the existing track?

With a "normal" train, a track is a track. As long as the rolling stock fits the loading gauge and doesn't exceed the axle-load, it works.
So far as I can tell, the same rules apply to a monorail. Granted, the bus bar pickups are a factor, but is that any different to fitting a "real" train with a third rail shoe instead of a pantograph?

If you can build a train/tram, you can build a monorail.

..... And, as has been said, that's where tooling costs come in to play. Of course it can be done. But is the end client willing to pay the costs?

We all know the answer to that one.
 
I suppose it is possible to reverse engineer the monorail trains for modern standards and I could see, if they were willing to spend millions again, make the trains driverless which makes sense in terms of cutting costs down regarding staffing. Being a basic loop means that's it not too difficult to do honestly.

Though I do wonder a monorail revamp would be part of adding solar panels for the car park in which given how much power it uses, having it powered from a new source being those solar panels as well as reducing running costs too so very much killing two birds with one stone.
 
DiogoJ42 said:
I have to wonder.... how hard can it be ... to run newer rolling stock on the existing track?

With a "normal" train, a track is a track. As long as the rolling stock fits the loading gauge and doesn't exceed the axle-load, it works.
So far as I can tell, the same rules apply to a monorail. Granted, the bus bar pickups are a factor, but is that any different to fitting a "real" train with a third rail shoe instead of a pantograph?

If you can build a train/tram, you can build a monorail.

..... And, as has been said, that's where tooling costs come in to play. Of course it can be done. But is the end client willing to pay the costs?

We all know the answer to that one.
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it is very possible to design a new monorail train, the problem of a new design though would not only be tooling though

Avanti, Mack, Siemens, CAF, etc make hundreds of trains for railways, often the train is the same design with identical parts just a new body shell placed on top there are many of these families of train (for example the voyagers, the electro stars) doing this allows the companies to design the main components once and then just tweak the design for the needs of each railway. This allows the benefit of larger economies of scale and reducing the design costs.

but the monorail would have what 7 trains made, relatively the design costs will be massive and same with the specialised tooling costs as there isn't a way they could reuse components such as the bogies from trains meaning it all has to be designed from scratch.
 
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QTXAdsy said:
I suppose it is possible to reverse engineer the monorail trains for modern standards and I could see, if they were willing to spend millions again, make the trains driverless which makes sense in terms of cutting costs down regarding staffing. Being a basic loop means that's it not too difficult to do honestly.

Though I do wonder a monorail revamp would be part of adding solar panels for the car park in which given how much power it uses, having it powered from a new source being those solar panels as well as reducing running costs too so very much killing two birds with one stone.
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The trains are driverless, just manual door ops. The main reason to have a staff member on board is safety
 
James said:
Alton Towers probably want to work on the Monorail, but they can't because Merlin won’t cough up.

I'm wondering how the Skyride investment worked, and if the same approach could happen with the Monorail.
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The same could have potentially been said for the Skyride a few years ago, I think, hence why it fell into the state it did. But that was arguably the bigger priority because the ride had major problems that would have prevented it from opening for long. So "I think" that would have taken priority.

Hopefully the same logic can be applied to the monorail. I am wondering if they were able to push the Skyride as being an attraction in itself, based on the excellent views it gives. One would hope the same logic could be applied to the monorail on the basis it is such an iconic entrance and exit to what is, for many, a magical day out.

Like the Skyride, Alton Towers just would not be the same without the monorail. I do hope they give it the love the resort and us, the guests, deserve. For many, both of these modes of transport, are as iconic as the towers ruins themselves.
 
I noticed today that a few of the trains on the monorail have gone for refurb Jelly Beans and Starry Train were not parked in their usual spot. Also the Moonorail had its door open alongside another I am wondering if behind the scenes the monorail trains are being refurbished. Hopefully they can try to get it back on 6 trains would really help capacity for morning rush
 
Hid said:
Hopefully they can try to get it back on 6 trains would really help capacity for morning rush
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that would probably need a station refurb to add gates as I think merlin want all rides (unless if moving station) to have gates to block guests from running in front of trains, I am not sure what merlin uses for traning but I know Iroc is one standard, with some stringent rules (hosts must be in an area when dispatched, guests must be barriered from entering the ride area, etc)

if they didn't you would see like 5 trains stacked waiting for the one train to be filled, before dispaching (I think I times 5 mins for one dispach) the max it can really run without a double stack is 3 currently
 
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flyingguitar said:
that would probably need a station refurb to add gates as I think merlin want all rides (unless if moving station) to have gates to block guests from running in front of trains, I am not sure what merlin uses for traning but I know Iroc is one standard, with some stringent rules (hosts must be in an area when dispatched, guests must be barriered from entering the ride area, etc)

if they didn't you would see like 5 trains stacked waiting for the one train to be filled, before dispaching (I think I times 5 mins for one dispach) the max it can really run without a double stack is 3 currently
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I don’t understand Merlin’s issue with gates and batching on the monorail.

It’s not like trains have them (I know the Elizabeth line and a few other have platform screen doors but 99% of UK trains don’t). Just seems like health and safety being taken too far.
 
havaska said:
I don’t understand Merlin’s issue with gates and batching on the monorail.

It’s not like trains have them (I know the Elizabeth line and a few other have platform screen doors but 99% of UK trains don’t). Just seems like health and safety being taken too far.
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I can see Merlin's point of view though. Imagine the headlines if someone fell in front of the monorail train with no air gates. After the Smiler incident (that no newspaper has ever forgotten as it seems to be on their computer clipboards to paste into every theme park article since!), they'd be ripped to shreds by the [social] media and Towers' safety reputation would fall through the floor and probably never recover fully - especially when it would be revealed that it could've been prevented by holding people back at the main gate (as they currently do).
 
Also having more trains available for use could be good to ensure it operates with at least 3. But I think Monorail is next major ride for an overhaul.
 
havaska said:
I don’t understand Merlin’s issue with gates and batching on the monorail.

It’s not like trains have them (I know the Elizabeth line and a few other have platform screen doors but 99% of UK trains don’t). Just seems like health and safety being taken too far.
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this could be down to a few things, insurance for one.

but they may also have standards for their training, I mentioned IROC (https://ridetraining.com/iroc/) as I know they are really strict with some stupid thing (such as not letting a train dispatch without hosts in a safe area, but on rides that require a pre-dispatch operation (such as millennium force attaching its launch rope) they don't allow that either)

doing it this way would allow them to go to the insurance and saying we run under certified X, could also be after the smiler, trying to get more standardised and certified processes.
 
I think they are trying to at least get all trains moving again on the Monorail before making the adjustments to the stations, when was the last time your saw the Moonorail moving or Starry Pattern train moving
 
Hid said:
I think they are trying to at least get all trains moving again on the Monorail before making the adjustments to the stations, when was the last time your saw the Moonorail moving or Starry Pattern train moving
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I would argue it would make more sense to get the station working first, as there is an immediate benefit of improving the capacity for the current lines (can easily improve dispaching)

although, if they have plans to add gates, they could only do it during the closed season (without bringing the monorail down for months) and depending on the status of the vehicles (if they need a lot of work) then it could make sense to work on the vehicles to get them working now, when you have some down time. alternativly they could be using them as a stop get as they renovate the ones previously used a lot so they can switich them it in.
 
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