I sincerley doubt the cuts, park wide, would've been as bad as they were had The Smiler crash not happened. We definitely wouldn't have had 5 closed rides had there been no crash.
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Opening Hours: A comparison around the UK and Europe
- Thread starter AstroDan
- Start date
I sincerley doubt the cuts, park wide, would've been as bad as they were had The Smiler crash not happened. We definitely wouldn't have had 5 closed rides had there been no crash.
Ted
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Kondaa
Except before the crash they proposed reducing the opening hours for Th13teen and Rita, closing the Blade completely, and I believe closing at 4:00PM on some days. I don't care if it's "not as bad" as the ones we have now, the premise of it is still terrible and makes it even worse how Towers try to excuse this things with bullcrap like "our market research shows blah blah blah"
Reduced hours for two rides and one flat ride closed is nowhere near the same level as 5 mothballed rides.
And for the record, I'm not saying cuts in any respect are good.
Ted
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Kondaa
Nice of you to miss the original point of my post
The whole point being is that they've done things like this before the Smiler crash.Nice of you to miss the original point of my post
I completely got the point you were making, I just didn't fully agree with it - there was no need to be patronising! You were claiming that cuts were taking place before the Smiler crash - something I didn't deny, and never have denied. You also made a comparison to another park that suffered a similar tragedy, which proves that Towers and Merlin could have handled things better. I'm not denying that either - I mentioned in my original post that I don't think closing rides was the answer.
The point I was making, which maybe you missed, is that the natural step down from the staggered ride openings and worse opening hours which we saw at the beginning of the 2015 season, is not closing five rides for the entire season - that is a major step down, I'd say purely down to the crash.
Had the crash not happened, I'm sure park wide cuts would have increased. But they would've been along the lines of what we already witnessed at the start of 2015 - certain areas opening at 11 instead of 10, some rides maybe closing during off peak times etc. But not 5 rides closed all season, alongside many F&B outlets and shops. You simply cannot put Rita and Th13teen opening at 11 on the same level as rides like Hex being closed for an entire season.
The fact is, Thorpe and Chessy are open for longer with more of their full attraction line up available to the GP. If these cuts were entirely down to Merlin, then I'm sure all Merlin parks would have the same operational cuts that Towers have had. The fact it's only Towers shows they are still suffering the after effects of the accident.
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Ted
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Kondaa
Nope got that. That is worse, not denying that. Point I'm simply making is that Towers were making cuts before the crash with pathetic excuses behind them.
Except Thorpe has shut Loggers Leap for 2 continuous years, and they claimed they closed it because of a "refurb" which hasn't happened. And Towers tried to make the same excuse regarding the 5 closed rides.
Loggers Leap being closed is a substantially smaller deal than Hex, Charlie, Wobble, N:ST and Driving School, plus several cafes, shops and restaurants being closed. Plus Thorpe is still opening at 10 and closing at 5 on off peak days, a whole hour longer than Towers. Merlin clearly are profit driven, I just think the reason things are additionally bad at Towers is due to the battering the park's integrity has taken in the eyes of the public.
I get and share a lot of the Merlin hate, but I find too many people (not necessarily on this forum) underestimate the devastating effect of the crash.
Benzin
TS Member
Like blaming Swarm's "lack of intensity" for a poor 2012 performance rather than the plentiful external factors?
How do we know they wouldn't have closed the rides in the end? Sub Terra could've easily been on the list, like other actor based attractions under Merlin... Charlie if closed due to IP expiry would've closed anyway... Wobble World and Driving School probably come under the unpopular area and Hex is/was buggered...
Without the crash, it is possibly still likely that we would've seen two rides closed off, Blade and Ripsaw removed for the rumoured SW8 original plans and maybe more...
All fair points, and Sub Terra was pretty much closed anyway before the crash happened. The point I was making is I think it'd have been more gradual, not 5 in one go. Despite the already existing cuts, everyone seemed shocked when it was first rumoured that so many rides would be closed.
And to this day, I'm still surprised that Merlin were so quick to throw Swarm under the bus. Even now, it's still considered a bit of a failure, which I think is unfair.
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AstroDan
TS Team
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance, Cedar Point
Nemesis Sub Terra was almost closed long before the Smiler Crash and is mainly down to dire guest reviews vs high operational costs and poor H&S (as in, the restraint farce - not that the ride is dangerous, but it's not comfortable).
I believe the effect of The Smiler is principally seen in the food and beverage cuts, opening hour cuts, staff reorganisations and the closure of Hex and Driving School. Ripsaw also. That (Ripsaw) was unforgivable and remains, for me, the worst example of what has happened since the crash. We may also yet see more rides removed...
I believe Wobble World was already up for the chop. Charlie was due to expire, and it was never certain that it would have been renewed.
Andy is right that the Smiler has accelerated the cuts to the park. But equally, Merlin have been making cuts for years (event cuts, staggered openings, reducing park hours, reducing entertainment, shutting Skyride weekdays, closing Submission etc.).
I believe the effect of The Smiler is principally seen in the food and beverage cuts, opening hour cuts, staff reorganisations and the closure of Hex and Driving School. Ripsaw also. That (Ripsaw) was unforgivable and remains, for me, the worst example of what has happened since the crash. We may also yet see more rides removed...
I believe Wobble World was already up for the chop. Charlie was due to expire, and it was never certain that it would have been renewed.
Andy is right that the Smiler has accelerated the cuts to the park. But equally, Merlin have been making cuts for years (event cuts, staggered openings, reducing park hours, reducing entertainment, shutting Skyride weekdays, closing Submission etc.).
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AstroDan
TS Team
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- Steel Vengeance, Cedar Point
They had a lot of technical problems, true. But they could have spent the money (like Ripsaw, and like Black Hole back in 2005) to keep them open.
PuddoBearBoy
TS Member
Nemesis Sub Terra was almost closed long before the Smiler Crash and is mainly down to dire guest reviews vs high operational costs and poor H&S (as in, the restraint farce - not that the ride is dangerous, but it's not comfortable).
I believe the effect of The Smiler is principally seen in the food and beverage cuts, opening hour cuts, staff reorganisations and the closure of Hex and Driving School. Ripsaw also. That (Ripsaw) was unforgivable and remains, for me, the worst example of what has happened since the crash. We may also yet see more rides removed...
I believe Wobble World was already up for the chop. Charlie was due to expire, and it was never certain that it would have been renewed.
Andy is right that the Smiler has accelerated the cuts to the park. But equally, Merlin have been making cuts for years (event cuts, staggered openings, reducing park hours, reducing entertainment, closing Submission etc.).
I concur. Some people have short memories. The cost-cutting mentality was experimented with a few years prior to the flotation of the company, accelerated when it fully floated, and then hurtled after June '15.
I observe many crisis functions and Directors actions within various companies as part of my job role, albeit not usually the leisure industry; typically the banking industry. A failing, in my opinion, is the Merlin culture of a 'quick return'. Nick Varney, in my opinion, has presided over a company policy that is in synthesis with a 'shareholder primacy' approach (every action of the company is to increase the shareholders yield as much as viably possible in the short turn). It is my belief that this approach, whilst legal under the Directors Duties [Comp Act], is incorrect for the set up of the leisure industry. An approach such as a Pluralist (balanced) or Enlightened Shareholder Value approach would be best suited and still be legal for the Directors to execute. This approach is a more long term, bigger picture method which focuses on performing actions which, in the long run, will be in the best interests of the business, its stakeholders (the customers, community), and its shareholders. This function would ideally work for a RTP as it provides high investment, focus on maintenance and reputation and then relies on increased custom and spend from more satisfied guests to increase profits in the long run. The latter approach, the primacy, is essentially a thirst for revenue and dividend yields at the expense of a product, and is embedded as a culture right from the top management and CFO.
Naturally, however, implementing this model requires a brave, ambitious, and forward thinking Board of Directors, who could outline a long term plan at the AGMs, which Merlin do not currently possess.
I'd like to know what you think.
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Poisson
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- The Giant Squid
An inherently flawed ride design across manufacturers it seems. How they can't get stronger gearboxes I have no idea. Anyway.
The opening hours are a shambles, I'd understand if they shifted them back but cutting is ridiculous. How Merlin don't see this is losing them money who knows. Short term is never the way forward.
It baffles me. All they have to do is show the worldwide best quality parks and show the long term goals producing more money than the current quick buck plans.
The opening hours are a shambles, I'd understand if they shifted them back but cutting is ridiculous. How Merlin don't see this is losing them money who knows. Short term is never the way forward.
It baffles me. All they have to do is show the worldwide best quality parks and show the long term goals producing more money than the current quick buck plans.
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Rob
TS Team
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance
What I find most astonishing about that list of opening hours is that Europa-Park opens at least a full hour ahead of every other major European theme park - wow! And to think that Project V will open at 8.15am during peak times; staff at Alton Towers will still be fast asleep in bed.
Towers' opening hours have been poor for a while now and have very little to do with The Smiler incident in my opinion. They tried to bring in 4pm closures a while ago before backtracking due to negative feedback. I get that Alton Towers can't open as late as some parks due to it's location but it would be nice to have some summer 7pm closures like we used to. But then Merlin have downscaled the park so much in recent years that there's not really enough to do in all of this time. Merlin say the park closes earlier now because guests leave earlier but this is something forced somewhat from within.
I agree with Dan when he says that Merlin have hindered the recovery since The Smiler incident and given people reasons not to visit rather than to return. People see that rides have been removed, queues are slow moving, F&B is limited, the park looks a state and it is hardly open. People see these things and think "well why should I bother going, looks like it's going downhill anyway". There are plenty of reasons not to visit Alton Towers these days (along with the reasons to visit of course). I strongly feel that Merlin have gone the wrong way about the recovery at Towers and are hedging their bets on a budget impacted SW8 to improve things.
Towers' opening hours have been poor for a while now and have very little to do with The Smiler incident in my opinion. They tried to bring in 4pm closures a while ago before backtracking due to negative feedback. I get that Alton Towers can't open as late as some parks due to it's location but it would be nice to have some summer 7pm closures like we used to. But then Merlin have downscaled the park so much in recent years that there's not really enough to do in all of this time. Merlin say the park closes earlier now because guests leave earlier but this is something forced somewhat from within.
I agree with Dan when he says that Merlin have hindered the recovery since The Smiler incident and given people reasons not to visit rather than to return. People see that rides have been removed, queues are slow moving, F&B is limited, the park looks a state and it is hardly open. People see these things and think "well why should I bother going, looks like it's going downhill anyway". There are plenty of reasons not to visit Alton Towers these days (along with the reasons to visit of course). I strongly feel that Merlin have gone the wrong way about the recovery at Towers and are hedging their bets on a budget impacted SW8 to improve things.
Altonadvocate1
TS Member
OK, AstroDan, you got me.
I can't defend them on this.
It's poor
They're gonna need a bigger advocate!
C'mon, PeteB, this is your chance
I can't defend them on this.
It's poor
They're gonna need a bigger advocate!
C'mon, PeteB, this is your chance
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jon81uk
TS Member
But they haven't actually put that much permanent lighting in anyway. They need a lot of diesel generator powered lighting for Scarefest and Fireworks and much of the permanent lighting is just floodlights. The only thing I can think of with decent theatrical style effect lighting is the Galactica Portal.