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Paultons Park: General Discussion

I think what Paultons has over some other parks it's that it's very well run. Bianca is doing a good job over at Towers but before that it certainly wasn't well run. Other parks have had management issues as well. If you have strong passionate leadership it really helps especially in the theme park industry.
 
Again with the "competition" thing, it's just not that simple. I appreciate that I was the one that brought Universal up, but leisure isn't really a completely finate market in a first world country. The right experience at the right price and people will come.

Paultons don't have a lot around locally, and if you live locally and want a theme park experience that isn't Paultons, it's quite a long trip up the M3 to stand in slow moving Chessington queues, staring at 40 year old theming covered in cheap paint and 'Danger of Death' signs.

I think the reason an increasing population is spending less of their money in Blackpool and Merlin parks, choosing to do something else instead, isn't just for economic reasons (in fact, Merlin/Tussauds have tended to benefit when the economy is in the toilet, and the economy is currently skid marks at the back of the pan right now). It's because Merlin don't offer good value anymore. With Paultons you'll get what you pay for. With Merlin, the glossy marketing and heavily discounted entrance prices leave a bitter taste in the mouth when you realise the reality of what they're selling to you.

The two aren't completely comparable, and probably shouldn't be compared through the black and white lens of thinking that a good park somewhere = a struggling somewhere else. If Paultons achieved Chessington levels of attendance tomorrow, the place would fall over under the strain (like Chessington does most days?). But as a punter, I stand by my view that Paultons offers a better day out than any other park in the UK for young families. And it's moving on up. Whilst Paultons arrived to the party late, poured the shots, and suggested a game of strip poker, Merlin is the middle aged guy that drank a case of San Miguel bought from Sainsbury's Local on the way over, and now has it's head down the Kermit puking and pretending they're still cool.
 
Matt.GC said:
Alton Towers attendance has been on a slow decline for over 2 decades, so they can't be doing that good a job of maintaining the status quo it seems. In that time, the UK population has grown by around 15%. By Merlin's own numbers, there's a stagnation followed by an overall downward trend if you ignore the COVID years, with the.exception of Lego, which we all know is their true baby (especially now).

There's presumably such an opportunity in the UK market that one of the best park operators in the world see it fit to buy a huge plot of land near Bedford, and a small family park on the south coast can keep on investing in high quality theming and new attractions every few years and make a success of it.

Stagnation and (poorly) managed decline is what you get when you remove attractions/replace them with upcharges, offer crap opening hours, rely on gimmicks too heavily, don't invest in new experiences, contract out your food to a bunch of cowboys to cut costs, and then just splash primary coloured paint on decay.
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Taking visitor number trends isn’t really looking at the whole picture. In the 90’s and 2000’s all theme parks had a “grow attendance/ maintain attendance” strategy. This changed a few years ago and now most parks around the world are moving to a limit numbers but take more money per guest.

The Paultons v Merlin debate is pretty pointless right this minute. Paultons is a regional park developing rapidly and creating a great product (shame its entrance looks like a motorway service station). Merlin (and the latter years of Tussauds) stagnated their parks and created a decline to save money but to all intents and purposes despite having the same name Merlin became a “new” company in 2023, pretty much the entire leadership changed as the new owners started making moves (likely delayed due to covid). The Mack family could have bought Towers in 2020 and it would still be struggling at the moment because there is so much neglect to deal with.

Come back in about 8 years and then you will have a better handle on how things are moving as Paultons will have continued its rise (hopefully) and we will know if Merlin are moving the quality dial after fixing the issues.

Paultons will always be a regional park because of its location but it could be a huge player in the industry regardless.
 
I think 2026 could be a watershed year for Paultons for if rumours of the new addition in this viking themed area are of an inversion coaster which has Paultons enters the family thrill market, as well as a decent PR campaign to get nationwide attention then that is when Paultons becomes a serious player to challenge Merlin and mostly Chessington up the road who currently have nothing to compete with...it is a real David vs Golaith clash likely heading into the late 2020s I predict to see who becomes the bigger family aimed themed park.

It will be interesting just how big the park could become over the next few years in which I can definitely see a second dark ride being made down the line and maybe a larger water ride once they replace many of their non themed or fair ground style attractions and the poor entrance itself I agree let's the park down but could be a good location for maybe the park's main hotel should they ever get to that stage within the next 10 years should they grow and keep their standards high.
 
QTXAdsy said:
I think 2026 could be a watershed year for Paultons for if rumours of the new addition in this viking themed area are of an inversion coaster which has Paultons enters the family thrill market, as well as a decent PR campaign to get nationwide attention then that is when Paultons becomes a serious player to challenge Merlin and mostly Chessington up the road who currently have nothing to compete with...it is a real David vs Golaith clash likely heading into the late 2020s I predict to see who becomes the bigger family aimed themed park.

It will be interesting just how big the park could become over the next few years in which I can definitely see a second dark ride being made down the line and maybe a larger water ride once they replace many of their non themed or fair ground style attractions and the poor entrance itself I agree let's the park down but could be a good location for maybe the park's main hotel should they ever get to that stage within the next 10 years should they grow and keep their standards high.
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You could argue that they've already entered the family-thrill market with Storm Chaser, and the thrill market with Cyclonator. Can only go bigger from there!
 
Matt N said:
Perhaps controversially, I also feel that they are yet to attempt proper immersive, theatrical coaster theming in the manner that some Merlin coasters have done really well. As excellently themed and polished as the likes of Tornado Springs are, Paultons have not yet produced a heavily themed coaster experience with quite the theatre, spectacle and overall immersive experience of something like Wicker Man or Nemesis Reborn. Wicker Man has a giant, 60ft fire-breathing structure at its centre, a pre-show, themed tunnels with smoke effects, a heavily themed and theatrically lit station, details strewn all around its queue, and a clearly told, but not overbearing, narrative. Nemesis Reborn has the giant animatronic eye, the various helicopters and big props with movement and sound, the theatrically lit and heavily themed station with the dispatch sequence, the queue with all the props littered around it, the tentacles all around the area and such. People may not agree with me on this, but I don’t think Paultons have done properly theatrical, immersive coaster theming with spectacle on this level. As well-themed and well finished off as some of Paultons’ recent work is, I don’t think they’ve yet done immersive theatre and spectacle on the level of some of Merlin’s best work.
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But is there not a point to made that perhaps one of the reasons that Paulton's haven't needed to do a heavily themed coaster experience is that their newer coasters are very much intergrated in to a highly themed area in a way that some highly themed Merlin coasters have not been? Take the two coasters in Tornado Springs, they can essentially just be barns because they fit in very cohesively to the themed landscape of the world around them with it's diner and auto garage over the road. Yes, some Merlin coasters such as Wicker Man, Saw the Ride, and Mandrill Mayhem are very highly themed but they exist almost in a standalone bubble seperate from what surrounds them (which aruably that is why they need to be highly themed) and don't feel tied in to the land or attractions around them. Now obviously Nemesis Reborn is very different as it does feel integrated in to a much more cohesive Forbidden Valley this season. It will be very interesting to see what Paulton's do with the area around the old 4D cinema for Ghostly Manor and if they turn that in to it's own themed land with a second attraction there at some point.

It will be interesting just how big the park could become over the next few years in which I can definitely see a second dark ride being made down the line and maybe a larger water ride once they replace many of their non themed or fair ground style attractions and the poor entrance itself I agree let's the park down but could be a good location for maybe the park's main hotel should they ever get to that stage within the next 10 years should they grow and keep their standards high.
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If the park have an excellent relationship with local hotels in the region then do they necessarily need to add a hotel? It seems to be a big thing for them partnering with hotels around Hampshire to offer short break deals of accomodation with a second day park ticket thrown in for free so they may feel very comfortable just continuing with that model rather than trying to become a resort if they don't feel that they need to become one.
 
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Do we need this constant comparison with Merlin?
Chalk and cheese as far as I can see, sole trader versus very large company.
Chessington isn't close, it is seventy miles away...pretty long road to be "just up" from.
One is on the south coast, the other is in the home counties, not close by any real measure.
Paulton's becoming a serious challenger to Merlin...really...how exactly.
Slight difference in scale there...I bet Paulton's do not consider themselves as a challenger to Merlin, at all.
 
BooMT said:
Lawrence did directly refer to 'learning from the mistakes of Critters Creek' but didn't expand as to what they may be. I think it's a quirky, cute area on the whole but now starting to feel a little prematurely dated and everything seems packed in a bit too tightly, it's quite a small area. Cat-o-Pillar in its previous form (the Stinger!) was my first 'proper' coaster & what gave me the coaster bug so I was glad they kept it when they rethemed the area. It would be interesting to find out what the learns were!
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This.

It's not a terrible area by any means, but they were adamant that the area is not perfect, and that they want to learn from every new attraction and themed area they develop, including Tornado Springs. So we have reason to be excited if they want to do better than even the last two themed areas.. good entertainment is about aiming higher than the last thing you did, even if us theme park goons and the general public think its flawless.
 
Shaggy_Dog_ said:
But is there not a point to made that perhaps one of the reasons that Paulton's haven't needed to do a heavily themed coaster experience is that their newer coasters are very much intergrated in to a highly themed area in a way that some highly themed Merlin coasters have not been? Take the two coasters in Tornado Springs, they can essentially just be barns because they fit in very cohesively to the themed landscape of the world around them with it's diner and auto garage over the road. Yes, some Merlin coasters such as Wicker Man, Saw the Ride, and Mandrill Mayhem are very highly themed but they exist almost in a standalone bubble seperate from what surrounds them (which aruably that is why they need to be highly themed) and don't feel tied in to the land or attractions around them. Now obviously Nemesis Reborn is very different as it does feel integrated in to a much more cohesive Forbidden Valley this season. It will be very interesting to see what Paulton's do with the area around the old 4D cinema for Ghostly Manor and if they turn that in to it's own themed land with a second attraction there at some point.



If the park have an excellent relationship with local hotels in the region then do they necessarily need to add a hotel? It seems to be a big thing for them partnering with hotels around Hampshire to offer short break deals of accomodation with a second day park ticket thrown in for free so they may feel very comfortable just continuing with that model rather than trying to become a resort if they don't feel that they need to become one.
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Lawrence confirmed on Saturday that Paultons has no immediate, medium, or long term plans to build accomodation. He said that they're in the theme park business, and that they've learned how to operate one really well. He added that they're not a hotel company and would have to learn a new skillset to do so. Additionally he mentioned that, being in the New Forest and close to Southampton, that they have a plethora of high quality accomodation partners nearby to cater for all needs.
 
Just had a bit of a shock on TS discord... Apparently an elusive @GooseOnTheLoose was on the same train as me on Farmyard Flyer 😱🤣

Edit: they saw me at the back of the presentation AND were on the table next to myself, @BooMT and our +1s at dinner 👀😂
 
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Matt N said:
However, I do not agree with the instant declarations that the park is the best park in the UK and that it’s miles ahead of Merlin in every regard or whatever.
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I don't think anyone ever says this though? Not even me as a massive Paultons fanboy. There's a lot of things that Merlin do across their locations that Paultons don't, and probably couldn't, and even more probably don't want to do.

I don't think it's too wide of the mark though to say that for pretty much all things Paultons do that Merlin also do, Paultons do it better.

New installations, themeing, build quality, maintainance and reliability, upkeep, presentation, cleanliness, staffing, catering, parking, general operations, pricing vs capacity, access, etc etc. All the things that for me make my day, and fortunately it seems a good number of others feel the same.

The most contentious of these is probably the pricing and AP structures, with a lot of enthusiasts loving the dirt cheap passes, but for me Paultons have shown the improvement for everyone is worth disappointing the few. Premium price, premium product.

Obviously they can't magic up a park that isn't the one they have, legacy rides and areas and all, and the (especially thrill) hardware that Merlin have been accumulating for decades is clearly not going to be matched any time soon if that is the defining point someone's park preference hangs on. But if you don't prioritise those things I think the overall superior option is clear, and I can only see Paultons pulling ahead in more areas over time...
 
John_P said:
So at the fan event did no one ask the big question of will Daddy Pig be getting his roller coaster?
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Wasn't at the fan event so can't comment on that but I know previously when they have been compared to the Merlin Peppa Parks, Paultons have stated that they don't want to add a coaster Peppa Pig World as they want every addition in that area to have zero height requirement - I think at the moment the only thing that has a height requirement in that area is the dinosaurs.
 
Matt N said:
The recurring Merlin vs Paultons debate is an interesting one. I personally feel, however, that there is far more nuance to it than “Paultons good, Merlin bad”.

I won’t deny that Paultons does a lot of things right. It is a supremely pleasant park to visit and spend time in, it offers a pleasant experience in most regards, and their recent investments of the last decade or so have mostly been good, well-rounded and well-themed. I thoroughly enjoyed my one visit there in 2021, and I do think that the park deserves praise and has an exciting future ahead of it. It’s definitely one of the strongest non-Merlin parks in the country for me, it has an excellent product, it has a greatly promising future, and given the widespread praise on here and through the likes of TripAdvisor, whatever they’re doing is evidently working well.

However, I do not agree with the instant declarations that the park is the best park in the UK and that it’s miles ahead of Merlin in every regard or whatever. I think this misses some of the deeper nuance present in the debate. I feel that there are fundamental differences between Paultons and the Merlin parks, as well as certain avenues tackled by Merlin that Paultons are yet to properly tackle and certain elements of Paultons’ current experience that may be caused or at least aided by its relative smaller size.

The first thing I would say is that there are thematic and immersion-related areas Paultons are yet to tackle that I think Merlin has shown signs of great proficiency in, albeit not necessarily consistent proficiency. As an example, Paultons are yet to tackle a properly large-scale, heavily themed dark ride project like The Curse at Alton Manor (Ghostly Manor will be an interesting exhibit of their proficiency in this regard). Perhaps controversially, I also feel that they are yet to attempt proper immersive, theatrical coaster theming in the manner that some Merlin coasters have done really well. As excellently themed and polished as the likes of Tornado Springs are, Paultons have not yet produced a heavily themed coaster experience with quite the theatre, spectacle and overall immersive experience of something like Wicker Man or Nemesis Reborn. Wicker Man has a giant, 60ft fire-breathing structure at its centre, a pre-show, themed tunnels with smoke effects, a heavily themed and theatrically lit station, details strewn all around its queue, and a clearly told, but not overbearing, narrative. Nemesis Reborn has the giant animatronic eye, the various helicopters and big props with movement and sound, the theatrically lit and heavily themed station with the dispatch sequence, the queue with all the props littered around it, the tentacles all around the area and such. People may not agree with me on this, but I don’t think Paultons have done properly theatrical, immersive coaster theming with spectacle on this level. As well-themed and well finished off as some of Paultons’ recent work is, I don’t think they’ve yet done immersive theatre and spectacle on the level of some of Merlin’s best work.

Another thing I would say, which kind of links in with the first point, is that as excellent as their recent investments are, I don’t think Paultons has yet done anything overly ground-breaking or complex in the grand scheme of things. They’re yet to build a proper custom coaster, and Storm Chaser is their only coaster to have more than 1 full-size train. Nothing they’ve currently done rides-wise has been overly ground-breaking, whereas Merlin, for all the flaws of some of their projects, do churn out custom rides that are quite often very unique and bring something new and interesting to the table.

I would also say that Paultons is a small park with no overly complex rides and a possible skew towards Peppa Pig among its visitor base, and this may aid some often praised aspects of the experience it offers. As an example, people often praise its short to nonexistent queue times. I’d wager that the lower attendance and possible skew towards Peppa Pig may be significant contributing factors to the low queues for the park’s bigger rides. If the park was bigger and/or had attendance less skewed towards Peppa Pig, I don’t think the park’s thrilling rides would necessarily still be a low-queue utopia. Even now, I’ve seen and heard of some queues in Peppa Pig World getting quite long during peak periods. The low complexity of the rides may also aid the often praised low downtime at Paultons; if Paultons had more complex rides to maintain like some of the Merlin parks, would the downtime situation still be quite so idyllic? Plenty of praised aspects of the guest experience are of course conscious decisions by the park themselves, but I think it’s fair to acknowledge that some aspects may be aided by the park’s inherent attributes.

Overall, I think they’re very different animals and hard to directly compare. Paultons is doing very, very well for a smaller, independent UK park, and I think they have a brilliant product and a very promising future, but I think that their lesser scale of operation compared to the Merlin parks does become apparent in some ways when you directly compare the two. The Merlin parks do operate on a completely different scale in most aspects, and I think this does become apparent when you look at things such as the major investments.

For clarity, I’m not saying that Merlin are perfect or that Paultons don’t deserve praise by any means. I think there are aspects of Merlin’s guest experience and operations that could be improved, and there are aspects that Paultons does beat them on, in my view. I’m merely expressing reasons why I don’t wholly agree with the common view that Paultons are trouncing Merlin and why I feel that it’s important to consider the additional nuance rather than just go “Paultons good, Merlin bad”. I apologise if anything I’ve said is controversial or wrong; that’s simply my view based on my own experiences and what I know.
TL;DR: I feel that there is far more nuance to the Paultons vs Merlin debate than simply saying “Paultons good, Merlin bad”. I think it’s important to consider that Paultons have not yet done anything overly complex or any kind of theatrical theming or heavily themed dark rides like Merlin at their best have done, and I also feel that the park’s smaller size and visitor composition may be important to consider when talking about some aspects of their guest experience.
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I don't think there is any point comparing Paultons to Alton Towers or Thorpe Park, they aren't aiming for the same market. Paultons should be compared to Chessington WoA and Drayton Manor.
I've not visited CWOA in years and never been to Paultons myself, but I very much get the impression that Paultons is a cleaner, better maintained version of Chessington.
 
jon81uk said:
never been to Paultons myself
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Do It Waiting GIF by Apple TV+
 
rob666 said:
Likewise...not their target market at all, and about as far away as they could possibly get from my home...Oakwood levels of travel.
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Whilst it's true that you might not think of yourself as their intended target market there are definitely things that anyone could enjoy at the park. Cobra and Storm Chaser are very good coasters that would fit in well at any park in the UK and there are really nice gardens there as well to appreciate. I don't think anyone would bat an eyelid if you were at the park, it's not like it's only a kiddified park like the Gullivers ones are.
 
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