Preparing for a possible next major World War

[BarryZola]

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This thread discusses war, global conflict and all associated aspects. Please be mindful that some members may find this upsetting.

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A few comments in another thread started to lead into thoughts of prepping etc. I wonder if people have been having underlying thoughts in their quiet moments about what they would actually do if we were invaded one day by land or whatever as a country? It was something that was pretty inconceivable a few years ago, but we've somehow ended up with a situation with certain influential leaders that means that we may not live our full lifetimes without being involved in a major conflict. It may mean that many of our own people are sent abroad in combat or that we're forced to defend our own isles. Or, all of this could blow over in a few weeks and we just pay higher bills for a few years.

What are your thoughts on all of this? Do you think that our government are even prepared for these eventualities? I don't. Are you slowly making any plans to look after your families, or is all of this crazy?

 

[DiogoJ42]

There's no point "prepping". Stock up on intoxicating substances. When the sirens sound pathetic text message comes through, take them all at once and run towards the bright light.

 

[BarryZola]

Part of my investing strategy a few years ago was whisky, which has only held its value at best, or lost it. So, if worst comes to worst, I'll have plenty of the strong stuff to pour down my neck.

 

[DiogoJ42]

I should add, no one is going to invade the mainland UK with ground troops. We could be missiled in to dust and goo, and there's nothing our sorry excuse for a military could do to stop it, but there's no need to start forming Home Guard platoons.

 

[BarryZola]

Certain countries might like the idea of having an outpost in Westminster though after the US has given the greenlight that we're not under their protection anymore. Slowly slowly obviously. Personally, though, I think that the US are bluffing and they know that the air-space, waters, intelligence sharing etc are too much to give up. Also, they'd be pushing Europe closer to the East with regards to trade/security and that would be terrible for the US in the long term. Not sure they'd go there even with the current regime...

 

[DiogoJ42]

Well our glorious leaders have given the OK for China to build a new embassy, including a mega-basement that we are not allowed to ask details about, next to the Tower of London... right on top of secret government communication cables .... so I'd say the enemy outpost already has government approval.

Is that off topic? It feels off topic..... I have a geiger counter. There you go.

 

[BarryZola]

Well our glorious leaders have given the OK for China to build a new embassy, including a mega-basement that we are not allowed to ask details about, next to the Tower of London... right on top of secret government communication cables .... so I'd say the enemy outpost already has government approval.

Is that off topic? It feels off topic..... I have a geiger counter. There you go.

Pretty sure it's on-topic as this is the kind of discussion that this thread was created for

 

[Ash]

Thankfully i rest easy knowing North Staffordshire is of zero historical, commercial, tactical, cultural interest to anyone so should the stuff hit the fan I’m quite happy here or straight to mid wales.

Outside of that if/when we move I do intend to purchase solar panels and battery with the possibility of going “off grid”.

Otherwise I’ve half looked at DJI Power Banks recently for nothing more than curiosity!

 

[DiogoJ42]

Thankfully i rest easy knowing North Staffordshire is of zero historical, commercial, tactical, cultural interest to anyone so should the stuff hit the fan I’m quite happy here or straight to mid wales.

Outside of that if/when we move I do intend to purchase solar panels and battery with the possibility of going “off grid”.

Otherwise I’ve half looked at DJI Power Banks recently for nothing more than curiosity!

Bless. I have a map, made using Nukemap, saved on my iPad, of every single nuke target in the UK, that I sadly cannot upload to the forum anymore. Nowhere is safe. This island is so small, that even if you are far enough from a doom shroom to survive the blast, the fallout will get you within a day.

People often say "I'd run away to Wales or Scotland". Where do you think we keep our military bases and submarine pens? Those "rural" locations are prime targets! And let's not forget that in such a situation, all major roads will be closed.
Besides, how far do you really think you can get in 4 minutes?

Nope. No point even trying. Just lie back, light up a Hamlet, and get a spectacular suntan.

 

[rob666]

Four minute warning???
At least I would have the chance of a final sex session.
Two even.

 

[Ash]

Bless. I have a map, made using Nukemap, saved on my iPad, of every single nuke target in the UK, that I sadly cannot upload to the forum anymore. Nowhere is safe. This island is so small, that even if you are far enough from a doom shroom to survive the blast, the fallout will get you within a day.

People often say "I'd run away to Wales or Scotland". Where do you think we keep our military bases and submarine pens? Those "rural" locations are prime targets! And let's not forget that in such a situation, all major roads will be closed.
Besides, how far do you really think you can get in 4 minutes?

Nope. No point even trying. Just lie back, light up a Hamlet, and get a spectacular suntan.

Oh I’ve been to Faslane, (won’t disclose why) you see the subs coming in past Greenock all the time.

Faslane is literally ground zero really in Europe. And for good reason. Faslane, Plymouth, Aldermaston. Likely in that order on the **** list. The ruskies know that’s how they stop our response. Thankfully it has plenty of features to help not get in that situation.

Thankfully our own war ending machines and tactics are pretty effective and now we may or may not be hosting nuclear capable F35As, we may be even more lethal…

Europe is very much our domain/backyard and we need to be doing more to support Ukraine and improving our own defence capabilities for us and our allies. It’s very possible a UK/French nuclear umbrella for Europe will be needed soon.

And from north staffs you can go the rural route way to mid Wales

 

[Slackjawedyokel]

I’m a farmer- the thing that worries me in relation to a possible future war situation is our food security. Compared to a lot of the globe we are a green and pleasant land yet we only produce little over half of our food requirement.

If you don’t learn the lessons of the past then you repeat the mistakes. WW2 saw a lot of resource and lives put towards protecting Atlantic food convoys. In the postwar decades there was a massive focus on stabilising and expanding domestic food production but a few generations on from actual hunger and rationing, food production is no longer a priority. Production subsidies have been withdrawn and agriculture is withering like any other manufacturing sector when forced to compete on price with cheaper imports.

In a future war in the UK, I don’t think troops would have to invade. Interrupting shipping/imports (whether by military means or simply by stopping selling to us) would cause panic, looting and insurrection. Our Just-In-Time food supply/retail network would see empty shelves within days (hours when you think of the covid/toilet roll situation).

And I’d be in the same boat as everyone else because the first thing Govt would do in that situation would be to requisition all stores of food products.

 

[BarryZola]

I’m a farmer- the thing that worries me in relation to a possible future war situation is our food security. Compared to a lot of the globe we are a green and pleasant land yet we only produce little over half of our food requirement.

If you don’t learn the lessons of the past then you repeat the mistakes. WW2 saw a lot of resource and lives put towards protecting Atlantic food convoys. In the postwar decades there was a massive focus on stabilising and expanding domestic food production but a few generations on from actual hunger and rationing, food production is no longer a priority. Production subsidies have been withdrawn and agriculture is withering like any other manufacturing sector when forced to compete on price with cheaper imports.

In a future war in the UK, I don’t think troops would have to invade. Interrupting shipping/imports (whether by military means or simply by stopping selling to us) would cause panic, looting and insurrection. Our Just-In-Time food supply/retail network would see empty shelves within days (hours when you think of the covid/toilet roll situation).

And I’d be in the same boat as everyone else because the first thing Govt would do in that situation would be to requisition all stores of food products.

Such an important point, thank you. Another area where successive governments have failed us.

 

[James]

I don’t think our government is prepared at all for a large scale war and I wonder whether the decision to not get involved in Iran plays a role in government concerns about current military readiness for anything developing further in Europe/on our home turf.

It’s hard to prepare for something that you don’t know if it will happen and what a war against the UK would look like.

If things go nuclear I would rather run to that bright light and get the misery over with.

 

[rob666]

I’m a farmer- the thing that worries me in relation to a possible future war situation is our food security. Compared to a lot of the globe we are a green and pleasant land yet we only produce little over half of our food requirement....

Add in me doing land work...
We used to make most of our own food and fertiliser.
We now import half of both.
And we need petrol to deliver and grow.
Fertiliser prices have been silly yoyoing since covid...all over the place with costs and supply.

My wife's favourite sweet peppers have gone up sixty percent in a year.

Globalisation of markets is great...until wars come along.

 

[Secret Weapon]

I’m a farmer- the thing that worries me in relation to a possible future war situation is our food security. Compared to a lot of the globe we are a green and pleasant land yet we only produce little over half of our food requirement.

If you don’t learn the lessons of the past then you repeat the mistakes. WW2 saw a lot of resource and lives put towards protecting Atlantic food convoys. In the postwar decades there was a massive focus on stabilising and expanding domestic food production but a few generations on from actual hunger and rationing, food production is no longer a priority. Production subsidies have been withdrawn and agriculture is withering like any other manufacturing sector when forced to compete on price with cheaper imports.

In a future war in the UK, I don’t think troops would have to invade. Interrupting shipping/imports (whether by military means or simply by stopping selling to us) would cause panic, looting and insurrection. Our Just-In-Time food supply/retail network would see empty shelves within days (hours when you think of the covid/toilet roll situation).

And I’d be in the same boat as everyone else because the first thing Govt would do in that situation would be to requisition all stores of food products.

I heard that part of the reason why Britain stopped growing as much of its own food was because of the high land prices and high energy costs (i.e. little natural sunlight), and so it was cheaper to import from overseas

Obviously, this makes Britain vulnerable to supply shocks, but Britain had joined the EU and NATO around that time and so maybe it was seen as unlikely?

Certain countries might like the idea of having an outpost in Westminster though after the US has given the greenlight that we're not under their protection anymore. Slowly slowly obviously. Personally, though, I think that the US are bluffing and they know that the air-space, waters, intelligence sharing etc are too much to give up. Also, they'd be pushing Europe closer to the East with regards to trade/security and that would be terrible for the US in the long term. Not sure they'd go there even with the current regime...

Some people in America criticise NATO because it's seen as America paying for everybody else's security, but you're right that it is actually a two-way street of sorts as Europe also supplies America with intelligence and access, et cetera

Four minute warning???
At least I would have the chance of a final sex session.
Two even.

It would still be zero sessions for me, sadly (no matter how much warning I was given!)

Thankfully i rest easy knowing North Staffordshire is of zero historical, commercial, tactical, cultural interest to anyone so should the stuff hit the fan I’m quite happy here or straight to mid wales.

Outside of that if/when we move I do intend to purchase solar panels and battery with the possibility of going “off grid”.

Otherwise I’ve half looked at DJI Power Banks recently for nothing more than curiosity!

Now we know why the Nemesis creature was hiding underground in the seemingly random location of Alton Towers - he/she was probably just chilling in exile from a major intergalactic conflict!

 

[rob666]

...It would still be zero sessions for me, sadly (no matter how much warning I was given!)...

Spoken like a thoosie.

 

[Slackjawedyokel]

(Apologies for going a bit OT…)

I heard that part of the reason why Britain stopped growing as much of its own food was because of the high land prices and high energy costs (i.e. little natural sunlight), and so it was cheaper to import from overseas

Obviously, this makes Britain vulnerable to supply shocks, but Britain had joined the EU and NATO around that time and so maybe it was seen as unlikely?

I think there are a variety of reasons why we aren’t now trying to produce so much food. By the 80s and 90s, the post war European agricultural reforms had been so successful that commodities were in surplus (“butter mountains, wine lakes” etc) and farmers were compelled via the subsidy system (C.A.P) to have “set-aside” (ie not to grow on a proportion of their land).

The UK is now a really expensive place to do business- land/rent, fuel, staffing; it’s all really expensive. Farming in particular is caught between a rock and a hard place. On top of the generally high cost of doing business here, we have rather high legal minimum standards (things like environmental protection, H&S, animal welfare etc). On top of that, for your produce to end up being sold in a supermarket you must be Red Tractor assured- that adds standards above and beyond what’s legally required (eg your sprayer must be officially inspected annually, rather than every three years which is what the law requires).
But the rub is that foodstuffs are internationally traded commodities- supermarkets won’t pay above the international price for UK food even though imports will often have been produced to standards that would fall below our legal minimum.
Hitting higher standards naturally pushes up the costs to the business.

We live on a small, crowded island. Land has never been in such high demand so the price of land is high. Its value is now much higher for non-agricultural uses than it is for agriculture. ROCE in agriculture is currently -0.1% (you lose £1000 for every million you have invested), but that represents a big improvement on the previous figures…
Construction and BNG (biodiversity net gain) linked to construction, energy production (solar parks), carbon offsetting and wildlife projects all take land out of agricultural production, often in a way that will make it difficult to get back into agricultural production, should the need arise.

Agriculture is just another type of manufacturing. It is cheaper to produce stuff abroad (probably with the NATO guarantee of being able to import), and without support, domestic production is dying. The short term advantage is that it’s cheaper for consumers (cheap food, no subsidy to pay), but in the long term, farming won’t be there if it’s needed. Personally I’m planning my exit from this land which my family has farmed for 100yrs- I’m advising my kids not to think about going into farming.

I don’t think it’s about the amount of sunlight we get. Some places are really agriculturally productive in harsher environments, eg the Great Plains of Canada that are under snow for months of the year.

(Apologies again.)

 

[Secret Weapon]

(Apologies for going a bit OT…)

(Apologies again.)

No need to apologise (to me, at least); I'm glad to hear from a farmer what some of the issues are!

My grandparents worked in farming as well, although they had mostly left the industry by the time that I was born (which is unfortunate, as I have always loved working with animals).

But the rub is that foodstuffs are internationally traded commodities- supermarkets won’t pay above the international price for UK food even though imports will often have been produced to standards that would fall below our legal minimum.

This is similar to one of the criticisms that I have heard of net-zero (although I'm not sure if it's true): the British government meets its net-zero energy requirements, but then allegedly imports energy from countries that don't follow the same regulations?

I suppose you could say this about clothing as well, though; British factories have good working conditions for employees, but yet shops (and consumers) will still buy clothes from factories overseas where working conditions are often well below British standards

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

I heard that

You do appear to hear a lot of things.