Project Horizon: Planning Application Submitted

Jb85

TS Member
Could it be that they haven't even designed or thought about what they want, but have the plan to us ethe area. Hence the up to 4000m2 comment.

So if they get permission to build or no obstructions they can then design the ride, or pick from a possible list of concepts they have ?
 

Matt N

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Mako (SeaWorld Orlando)
To back up my point about flying theatres being compact rides; let me show you ground space measurements for two of the flying theatres I've done. They are Flight of the Sky Lion at Legoland Windsor and Voletarium at Europa Park.
Flight of the Sky Lion at Legoland Windsor (1 theatre)
Flight-of-the-Sky-Lion-excluding-queue.png

Flight-of-the-Sky-Lion-including-queue.png

  • Area: ~473m2 (excluding queue), ~898m2 (including queue)
  • Longest Length of Ride Portion: ~26.2m
  • Widest Width of Ride Portion: ~24.8m
Voletarium at Europa Park (2 theatres)
Voletarium-excluding-queue.png

Voletarium-Area.png

  • Area: ~1,643m2 (excluding queue), ~2,377m2 (including queue)
  • Longest Length of Ride Portion: ~61.2m
  • Widest Width of Ride Portion: ~30m
These measurements are quite rough (I know that the length*width and area figures don't line up perfectly... that's because I measured paths for length and width and I drew polygons to determine the area. This is because the flying theatre buildings are not perfectly square.), but given that Horizon's ride area alone was cited as being at least 71m*46m in the consultation (which equates to ~3,266m2), and possibly going up to 75*57m according to the EIA letter (which equates to ~4,275m2), I would personally say that it sounds a little too big to be a flying theatre, even one with 2 theatres like Voletarium.
EDIT: While I'm on Google Earth, the actual dark ride space of Duel, Towers' current largest dark ride building, measures approximately 52.7m*45m (~2,372m2), to give us some idea of how big the building we're dealing with here is.
 
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Matt.GC

TS Member
Could it be that they haven't even designed or thought about what they want, but have the plan to us ethe area. Hence the up to 4000m2 comment.

So if they get permission to build or no obstructions they can then design the ride, or pick from a possible list of concepts they have ?

Yes, it is possible. It's also possible that they're just dipping their toe in the water or that the country will be in such a state within a few weeks time that 1GBP will be worth about 10p.

But read most of the few hundred posts in this thread so far and you'd be forgiven for thinking that there's a load of diggers on site with people in hard hats with blueprints in their hands waiting for a director to turn up and give them a thumbs up
 

Dave

TS Founding Member
Could it be that they haven't even designed or thought about what they want, but have the plan to us ethe area. Hence the up to 4000m2 comment.

So if they get permission to build or no obstructions they can then design the ride, or pick from a possible list of concepts they have ?

No I don’t believe that they don’t know what they want. My gut feeling is they are close to a contractual agreement with the manufacturer for some design work that has a significant cost attached. They therefore want to get an opinion on the broad project on its viability for approval before committing to some significant spend.

They know what they want but details of the design are potentially up for change hence some of the vagueness.
 

Matt N

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Mako (SeaWorld Orlando)
Yes, it is possible. It's also possible that they're just dipping their toe in the water or that the country will be in such a state within a few weeks time that 1GBP will be worth about 10p.

But read most of the few hundred posts in this thread so far and you'd be forgiven for thinking that there's a load of diggers on site with people in hard hats with blueprints in their hands waiting for a director to turn up and give them a thumbs up
Given that it's gone to a public consultation (as with Exodus and Project Amazon), my natural assumption would be that it's going to happen at some stage in the not too distant future, or at very least is currently intended to. Towers would be unlikely to do a full consultation if they didn't have some concrete intention of bringing this project to fruition, surely? Surely the "testing the waters" phase would mostly have been done privately? (I'm led to believe that parks do often liaise with the local council before publicly making planning applications or doing consultations to check that what they're planning is likely to get approved)

Based on Exodus and Amazon, my bet is that they've got a pretty finalised design and have already got 99% of the details sussed. Merlin trotted out identical lines in those consultations even though there were some pretty striking indications that they already knew exactly what they wanted to build, so while it is possible that Towers are still choosing, I also think it's very possible that they've already chosen and are simply keeping it secret until later. Like @Dave said, I reckon the ambiguity is the park giving themselves wiggle room in case there are any slight modifications made.
 

Matt.GC

TS Member
Given that it's gone to a public consultation (as with Exodus and Project Amazon), my natural assumption would be that it's going to happen at some stage in the not too distant future, or at very least is currently intended to. Towers would be unlikely to do a full consultation if they didn't have some concrete intention of bringing this project to fruition, surely? Surely the "testing the waters" phase would mostly have been done privately? (I'm led to believe that parks do often liaise with the local council before publicly making planning applications or doing consultations to check that what they're planning is likely to get approved)

Based on Exodus and Amazon, my bet is that they've got a pretty finalised design and have already got 99% of the details sussed. Merlin trotted out identical lines in those consultations even though there were some pretty striking indications that they already knew exactly what they wanted to build, so while it is possible that Towers are still choosing, I also think it's very possible that they've already chosen and are simply keeping it secret until later. Like @Dave said, I reckon the ambiguity is the park giving themselves wiggle room in case there are any slight modifications made.
They might have known what they wanted to do last week and may be ready to sign on the dotted line with a contractor. But it's not going ahead until construction starts. This could well end up as Cross Valley Coaster 2 for all we know.

Who knows, they could even bin the whole thing off if the economy changes or Merlin change their mind. The discussion around this is as if a planning application has been put in and the CAPEX has been finalised. I get that this is extremely interesting and potentially exciting but let's not get carried away. This is still preliminary at the moment and far from a dead cert.
 

Matt N

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Mako (SeaWorld Orlando)
Why does this mythical Intamin Motion Tower keep being mentioned? I haven't read anything that suggests this is any more likely than literally any other ride type or manufacturer?
I think people are cottoning onto it because it's a concept that's never been seen before (which would fit with Towers' usual design ethos), and it's somewhat similar to a flying theatre, which is what a great many people seem to think it will be.

I'm personally expecting an indoor coaster myself because to me, the building sounds too big in ground space for a flying theatre or similar, yet also too tall and atypically shaped for a regular dark ride, but as you say, it could be literally anything at this stage!
 

Benjsh

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Steel Vengeance
This is it. Nobody has a clue what they are planning. Do still think it will be a coaster of some sort though.

Axis or this RMC concept Dark Ride / Coaster they are working on is my current thinking.

The Motion Tower does look pretty cool but I don't think it really suits Towers tbh. I can see it working in a Studios style park more.
 

Matt N

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Mako (SeaWorld Orlando)
Axis or this RMC concept Dark Ride / Coaster they are working on is my current thinking.
For what it's worth, the first RMC dark coaster is strongly thought to be an RMC Powered Coaster headed to Silver Dollar City for 2023, as a replacement to Fire in the Hole. It's already under construction, with a huge building up.

One could certainly be on its way to Towers, though! It just likely wouldn't be the first, because it looks as though SDC have grabbed that accolade...

I too am thinking coaster, but I'm unsure what type. I was thinking a Mack Suspended Powered Coaster like Arthur, or possibly something like DarKoaster at Busch Gardens Williamsburg that runs multiple trains and uses a high speed switch track to do 2 laps, but it's anyone's guess, really.
 

QTXAdsy

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Black Hole
TBH, I have felt that Towers with their world's first/extreme mindset have made them a victim of their own success.

With this whole mindset to keep doing this, it actually boxes them into a corner in which ironically going for something that is the first does limit them of what they can do with a prototype. It almost like they are going to come up with world's first for the sake of a world's first, honestly with nearly every element that has more or less been done and soon enough Towers will have to find out that they can't go anywhere with them unless it's something ridiculous such as world's first coaster made of cardboard which is something they'll do (more likely given financial times of late). :p

If this is an indoor coaster, I'd like it to have no fancy elements but maybe something like an onboard soundtrack which actually would be a nice novelty to have on a UK coaster TBF.
 

Matt N

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Mako (SeaWorld Orlando)
TBH, I have felt that Towers with their world's first/extreme mindset have made them a victim of their own success.

With this whole mindset to keep doing this, it actually boxes them into a corner in which ironically going for something that is the first does limit them of what they can do with a prototype. It almost like they are going to come up with world's first for the sake of a world's first, honestly with nearly every element that has more or less been done and soon enough Towers will have to find out that they can't go anywhere with them unless it's something ridiculous such as world's first coaster made of cardboard which is something they'll do (more likely given financial times of late). :p

If this is an indoor coaster, I'd like it to have no fancy elements but maybe something like an onboard soundtrack which actually would be a nice novelty to have on a UK coaster TBF.
Towers did say when Wicker Man was being built that it signalled a move away from world's first attractions to a focus upon good quality attractions, so I certainly think there's a chance that we could see a more conventional indoor coaster that's just done really well!
 

Benjsh

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Steel Vengeance
Towers did say when Wicker Man was being built that it signalled a move away from world's first attractions to a focus upon good quality attractions, so I certainly think there's a chance that we could see a more conventional indoor coaster that's just done really well!

Didn't stop them with their world's first ride to involve wood and fire gimmick though.

Good ol' Merlin eh?

I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that this new project, if given the green light, will involve some kind of first. John Wardley certainly hinted that too but of course he could have been playing games.
 

QTXAdsy

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Black Hole
I think the whole fire and wood gimmick was dropped quickly after was when a certain other park in Germany got on social media about their own woodie have the exact same gimmick and Merlin got put in their place after that. :p

Not to say that even if we get a conventional coaster that Towers will have something to put on the ride such as the on-board ride soundtrack which honestly is not only tried and tested but has never been done in a UK theme park as far as I'm aware so there is that and it could easily be part of an indoor coaster in that building.
 

QTXAdsy

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Black Hole
Seeing as this was to have the angled roof, I can see that this might be used for putting in for just another space to allow a longer drop or dare I say even an inversion or two. Having a flat roof might have limited what could be built and honestly having a curved roof could easily look more presentable from the outside with some theming as apposed to just a basic big shed with no theming to try and blend it into the area though I could be wrong.

Plus, if this was part of a new area, part of TWODW or just its own thing like Wicker Man is for MB, who's to say that Towers might work a back to front approach in which this ride is in TWODW but has nothing to do with the area and instead when the licence finally runs out (any idea how long its for?) then the area is rethemed to match with the theme of the ride and by then the Dungeons becomes a true dark ride once again thus creating a huge themed area on the park?
 

Josh

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Nemesis
Pretty sure it’s cosmic rewind and there is no way Towers could build a show building big enough to beat it.

Yeah, Cosmic Rewind's two show buildings have a combined size of about 15,000 square metres, so seems very unlikely Towers' new coaster will be longer! :tearsofjoy:
 

Skyscraper

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Nemesis
I think the whole fire and wood gimmick was dropped quickly after was when a certain other park in Germany got on social media about their own woodie have the exact same gimmick and Merlin got put in their place after that. :p

Not to say that even if we get a conventional coaster that Towers will have something to put on the ride such as the on-board ride soundtrack which honestly is not only tried and tested but has never been done in a UK theme park as far as I'm aware so there is that and it could easily be part of an indoor coaster in that building.
If you're talking about a certain Colossos at Heide Park, they're owned by Merlin. 😉
 
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