Quiz and the Coughing Saga. (Poll)

Discussion in 'Box Office' started by MattyH, 15th Apr 2020.

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Is Major Charles Ingram guilty?

  1. Yes

    20 vote(s)
    80.0%
  2. No

    5 vote(s)
    20.0%
  1. Rojo

    Rojo TowersStreet Member

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    I'd say guilty, either that or the Coughing Major was an absolute showman. Stating you've never heard of an answer to pick it later on. Charles and Diana reminded me of the Kettlemans from Better Call Saul.

    I actually found the syndicate a better part of the show and was amazed to find out this was actually based on real people. I had assumed they bit made up for drama, there's a cool article that about how much of "The Consortium" was real.
    https://thetab.com/uk/2020/04/14/quiz-the-syndicate-who-wants-to-be-a-millionaire-151938

    The fact the Ingram's had the gall to appear on quiz shows after does make me wonder about my first point. Maybe Charles was the greatest showman? o_O

    @Plastic Person Absolutely agree about Matthew Macfadyen, he's great at that role in Death at a Funeral, if you haven't seen it then I'd fully recommend it. (Just avoid the 2 verbatim remakes.)
     
    Last edited: 17th Apr 2020
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  2. RoyJess

    RoyJess TowersStreet Member

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    The full Who Wants To Be A Millionaire program recorded in 2001 that shows Charles Ingram sat in the hot seat has been uploaded to youtube, it's just over 46 minutes long and I've yet to watch it all myself

     
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  3. Skyscraper

    Skyscraper TowersStreet Member

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    Definity worth a watch. There are captions too which explain different parts. :)
     
  4. RoyJess

    RoyJess TowersStreet Member

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    I've yet to watch it, I've also found the other ones on you tube. I personally would take the captions with a pinch of salt as the episode was uploaded by the program makers, which could unfairly influence our perception. I don't know what the law was back then, but I know that now-a-days any video footage used in court must be the original copy and unedited, and I know this is the case as Jess and I won a legal case the end of last year where we had video evidence that we wanted to use in court.

    Here is the episode of Adrian Pollock, brother of Diana Ingram. You may need to fast forward the clips.



    This is Diana Ingram episode



    This episode is Tecwen Whittock the guy that was found guilty of coughing to help Charles





    Jess and I are going to watch them all and only then will we make our own minds up.
     
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  5. RoyJess

    RoyJess TowersStreet Member

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    The second part of Tecwen Whittock episode, sorry for double post, but forum wouldn't let me post more than 5 you tubes vids on the same post

     
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  6. Skyscraper

    Skyscraper TowersStreet Member

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    This behind the scenes video of what happens before a WWTBAM episode is really interesting. Note that the way the questions are locked in is different from the TV drama. :confused:

     
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  7. pluk

    pluk TowersStreet Member

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    A great interview with Chris Tarrant, explains a lot about some of the artistic license used in telling the story, and reiterating it is not factual.



    Regarding the use the of the video, yes it's the 'original' that would be taken to court, but it isn't really as simple as that.

    Firstly, what is an 'original'? Especially once we are away from tape and into digital storage? Is it a hard drive? Is it the first copy taken of the hard drive? Is it the first available footage even though that may be second or third hand? There are various scenarios when any of those could be used. While the play dwelled on this you can be sure that if the footage was found to be admissible it was, or evidentially reliable.

    Secondly, all footage is edited when you chose the start and end point from whatever is obtained, pick up a multi hour VHS or drive and the court will not want to sit and watch that for a 3 minute shoplift! Also, it has always been admissable to enhance footage to show a certain aspect which may not be evident in its our original form. What is important is that footage gathered is disclosed as 'unused material', so any original can be reviewed along side the exhibit produced on court and is disclosed to the defence.

    The court would have addressed these issues, wouldn't have made great TV though, so the program didn't and instead left the viewer thinking the evidence presented was questionable. In reality it wouldn't have been.
     
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  8. RoyJess

    RoyJess TowersStreet Member

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    I've watched all the above videos. Looks like some have now been removed. Look like I'm lucky to have watched them all before some of them become unavailable.

    My thoughts.

    When watching both Adrian Pollock and Diana Ingram episodes, you could hear random coughing in the background through out.

    The Charles Ingram episode made a number of claims against the Ingram's. Only 19 our of 192 coughs were directly linked to the cheating. I personally would have liked to hear them all to clarify the different between (if any) the coughing.

    Even with the sound enhanced, I felt that a lot of them were irrelevant. The seats that the contestants sit in, have built in speakers, so this would have made it hard to distinguish between the coughing.

    There were claims that Charles struggle with the easy questions and used up his life lines which indicates that he shouldn't have made it to the final question. I disagree with this, I myself sometimes find the more difficult questions easier than the apparent easier questions. You only have to watch any quiz program, and you will often see contestants getting answers wrong on what I call dead easy questions. As the saying goes, the question are only easy if you know the answer.

    The first allegedly cough came in on the Graig David Question. This cough came from Diana, but the timing of her cough did not land on any of the answers, so how did this indicate Charles to change his mind?

    Charles claimed that he change his mind to the answer because he heard the gasps from the audience when he was going to give the wrong answer. Very much plausible. He did seem to be fishing a lot for answers with each round, he could be good at cold reading, something that mediums use a lot to gain subconscious information from other people.

    The other thin is, this was a question which he used his 50/50 life line on. If you know anything about the Monty Hall Problem, changing your mind would have increased the odds on getting the answer right



    On most of the more difficult questions, the first incline he had was actually the correct answer, before any alleged cough could be heard, so I just didn't seem why anyone would risk getting caught by coughing after Charles has said the correct answer. Even after the allegedly confirmation cough came, Charles was still thinking about all the answers and which one to go for.

    He even knew what a Antony Eden hat was and described it, despite the fact there were alleged coughing on that round. No amount of coughing would have told him what type of hat it was.

    There were claims that one of the cough sounded like a no. Yes when played back, it could have been a no, but in mid play in the middle of the arena with the music blasting from out of his seat, would Charles been able to decipher that as a no. Even with it been played back, it was very hard to hear it as a no, it wasn't clear and could have easily been interpreted as a confirmation yes. I do find it was hard to believe that this cough change Charles mind.

    There were also allegations that Diana kept looking towards Tecwen. So what, she knew who he was, if I knew someone who I knew was sitting somewhere, you would glance at them from time to time. It's human nature.

    There were also allegations that Tecwen was heard on the monitors asking another fast finger round contestant for the answers. Considering each and ever one of them was all miked up and independently controlled, where is this recording, why not include this in the video? The program makers also claimed that everything was captured with the cameras, again why didn't the program makers include footage of Tecwen leaning over to one of the other fast finger contestant?

    Was Tecwen intelligent enough to have given Charles all the answers? When he was in the hot seat, he used a life line on this very easy question, "what was the character in Star Wars" the answer was "Jabba the Hutt" . This goes to prove what I was saying earlier, just because you are intelligent, doesn't mean that you can get an easy question right, they are only easy if you know the answer. Tecwen only went away with a prize money of £1000

    My conclusions are, did the Ingrams cheat? Only they and they alone know the truth.

    From all the video episodes that I've seen, the Ingrams come across as big fans of quizzing and got sucked into the Who Wants To Be A Millionaire program. It's a bit like a computer game, you lose all your lives on level one, so you then get hooked, so do you give up? No, you have another go, improving your game plan each time until you finally complete the game.

    The Ingrams certainly had a game plan. They kept coming back for more until they hit the jackpot.

    Did the Ingrams cheat by using coughing? As much as the video evidence was very cleverly put together, and it was put together by program makers, despite there evidence, the coughing was edited to highlight the ones at specific points and not all of the coughing highlighted were not timed in any way to have been significant. There were some coughing in the video that seemed perfectly timed to the answer, but the video didn't also highlight all the coughing on the wrong answers. To me the coughing allegation was very weak. I would have also like to have seen and hear the actual footage of Tecwen clarifying the answers with another contestant, I'm surprised that something as important as this was left out. For me the video evidence was full of holes and had looked like it was edited in a way to influence the viewers.

    Did Charles just got lucky? Unlikely, but not impossible. People win the lottery against all the odds. Did Charles fish for the answers and was just very good at reading people body language as well as listening out for the gasps? The Ingrams took this very seriously, I doubt that they would have put Charles in the hot seat un-prepared, my other thought is that he revised a lot of information, this can be done subconsciously through hypnosis and then recalled the information. You couldn't do this as effective consciously, so this might explain why he took his time and going through all the possible answers as he was digging deep with in his mind. So what do I know about hypnosis, well let me tell you, it is a skill that I have learn't I have used it many times on myself and other people, it is real and it does work, the brain is a wonderful thing and can store a vast amount of information which can be recalled if used correctly.

    So did the Ingrams cheat? It is possible that they did, but also viewing all the footage, I feel that the program makers just didn't want to pay out, so they put together a video where the evidence is questionable in many places, it look like they were clutching at straws.

    The Ingrams still claim their innocent, and I believe that they are going to appeal, if they are innocent and they have evidence to back this up, then they will get there day in court to appeal. If they are innocent then they will have to prove this through the courts.
     
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  9. jon81uk

    jon81uk TowersStreet Member

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    Great post and I think you are probably broadly right, the only people who know 100% if they are guilty are the Ingrams.

    One small point. The fastest finger contestants were only mic'ed up once they are into the hotseat, before then it is just general overhead audience mics.
     
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  10. OilyWater

    OilyWater TowersStreet Member

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    A few years ago I watched the documentary they put out. I watched some of the edited footage yesterday and started watching the dramatisation. And I realised, who cares.

    There court ruling was made, there's more to think about than something that happened so long ago and the Ingrams just seem to enjoy their infamousy.
     
    Last edited: 24th Apr 2020
  11. RoyJess

    RoyJess TowersStreet Member

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    Did anyone see tonight's episode of Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/showbiz-tv/jeremy-clarkson-floored-who-wants-21138087

    Can catch up here on ITV hub

    https://www.itv.com/hub/who-wants-to-be-a-millionaire/1a7907a0153

    I was saying to Jess, that this guy on tonight show was no different to the Ingram's, then Jeremy commented that the contestant was just like a certain coughing major.

    No coughing was involved in tonight's episode. So it goes to show that it might be possible that the Ingram's could have just simply winged it
     

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