imanautie
TS Member
You do raise an interesting point, what should be the threshold for how long you are able to cope before you are rap eligible.
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Ride Access Pass Systems and Disabled Access (pre 2024)
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Benzin
TS Member
I'm currently dealing with the Copenhagen parks in advance of visiting (basically asking if a Blue Badge is acceptable for their companion systems as the Danish system is very specific in what is required to qualify)...
Think having such a system would benefit, as it goes beyond just a letter from a doctor... But it would involve government reform, which is far beyond the remit we're discussing here...
The issue stems from the fact that the parks cannot truly provide for every single disability, because the effects are so wide... With the MS meaning using a wheelchair for assistance rather than necessity, the rules for the Danish parks don't directly cover us (hence the email discussions)... There's no real way of solving these beyond doing a risk assessment not only for every disability but every potential variant of it... The one system is the only viable method with some discretion for specific situations...
To those asking why people need RAP if they don't in public... Actually think about the differences in a day in town to a day in a park like Towers and that's why a system is needed... Letting all and sundry use it is the problem, and working ways of limiting those who use it is particularly problematic due to the UK press...
Think having such a system would benefit, as it goes beyond just a letter from a doctor... But it would involve government reform, which is far beyond the remit we're discussing here...
The issue stems from the fact that the parks cannot truly provide for every single disability, because the effects are so wide... With the MS meaning using a wheelchair for assistance rather than necessity, the rules for the Danish parks don't directly cover us (hence the email discussions)... There's no real way of solving these beyond doing a risk assessment not only for every disability but every potential variant of it... The one system is the only viable method with some discretion for specific situations...
To those asking why people need RAP if they don't in public... Actually think about the differences in a day in town to a day in a park like Towers and that's why a system is needed... Letting all and sundry use it is the problem, and working ways of limiting those who use it is particularly problematic due to the UK press...
Trollydolly
TS Member
I take it that last paragraph is aimed at me. I have actually given it a lot of thought and to be honest a day in town etc seems harder than a day in a park especially for those with anxiety or those who struggle with lots of people confined spaces or uncertainty.
I agree there does have to be a cut off point and all and sundry shouldn't be able to use it but while there is no restriction other than needing a dr's letter that is what is happening. Unfortunately whatever system is used someone will say it's unfair to them. The criteria needs tightening because it is just a fast track queue for many and the people that really need it are losing out.
imanautie
TS Member
It's understandable that it's hard to grasp why a park would be difficult for some people.
I completely agree with your last point, it quite often effectively ends up as a free fast track which is not fair on people who pay for fast track and legitimate rap users.
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Trollydolly
TS Member
I'm glad we agree that rap is used as fast track rather than an adjustment. Maybe those who don't qualify for a bb and therefore rap (on my proposal) but function in other circs could use some of their pip/dla to buy fast track which after all is given to help with the additional costs caused by disability? This way those people who are capable of making their own adjustments can continue to do so in the park too especially if a theme park is the only place they need support, if they qualify for disability benefit?
Benzin
TS Member
I can't speak for those with mental disabilities, but for physical ones, walking round a town centre for an hour compared to full day at a park is big difference...
I've no experience with the likes of autism and anxiety so cannot talk for it...
Problem is some people who don't qualify for a blue badge don't qualify for DLA/PIP and it's a pain in the arse to apply for at best of times...
imanautie
TS Member
A saying I have heard in a few places is "there are no NT experts in autism".
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Skyscraper
TS Member
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- Nemesis
I work with kids and teens with autism and have autistic attendences, so have a lot of experience with it even though I don't officially have it myself.
Trollydolly
TS Member
I would expect an hour in town vs a day to have less impact and agree that a full day would have bigger implications.
I find it hard to agree tho that people who don't qualify for any disability benefits after assessment would require rap. Someone very close to me has ms so I do sympathise but still feel that the system needs a cut off and dr's letter are too easily forged and paid for to be an accurate judge of if rap is needed. Staff can't go against medical opinions as not medically trained and this is likely the reason the child with a nut allergy qualified for rap.
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imanautie
TS Member
I think the point is more getting at is that without having some experience yourself it's it's hard to guess what it's like to have asd.
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Skyscraper
TS Member
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- Nemesis
Yeah, I know. Does anyone know if Towers' staff receive disability awareness training?
imanautie
TS Member
I have previously asked this question in relation to CBeebies land and got this vauge answer.
" Hi - We do have policies in place all of which can be found at altontowers.com/useful-info/..."
I get the impression some staff actually do try and find more ways to assist guests on their own initiative.
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Trollydolly
TS Member
Baron-cohen may disagree?
I would also say that there are no people with autism that are experts if there are no nt experts. Someone who is verbal or able to chat on a site like this or able to go out alone or able to have a job or can go out alone or who doesn't self harm etc is not therefore an expert in my child due to their shared diagnosis....
imanautie
TS Member
1. Some of his theory's are questionable.
2. I do have to agree with you, just because someone has some experience on one part of the spectrum does not mean they are an expert across the spectrum.
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With regards to nuts allergies (or any allergies) they can be very serious and fatal, which is something that we mustn't forget or take lightly. Only in the news yesterday was the news of the school boy that died by just having a small piece of cheese thrown at him.
However if someone with an allergy, would they be at any less risk from an allergic reaction than if they were in the RAP queue compared to the normal queue or just walking around the park?
I see people blatantly abusing the system all the time. Only the end of last season, I saw a RAP user with a whole wad of timed out cards. Obviously he somehow acquired multiple of them to cheat the time out system.
Only this was recently posted on Alton's FB
I think what ever system you have in place, someone some where will find a way to cheat it.
The sooner Merlin clamp down on those that are abusing the system, close down the current RAP system and replace it with a new and better system which closes down all the loop holes, the better
However if someone with an allergy, would they be at any less risk from an allergic reaction than if they were in the RAP queue compared to the normal queue or just walking around the park?
I see people blatantly abusing the system all the time. Only the end of last season, I saw a RAP user with a whole wad of timed out cards. Obviously he somehow acquired multiple of them to cheat the time out system.
Only this was recently posted on Alton's FB
I think what ever system you have in place, someone some where will find a way to cheat it.
The sooner Merlin clamp down on those that are abusing the system, close down the current RAP system and replace it with a new and better system which closes down all the loop holes, the better
Skyscraper
TS Member
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- Nemesis
You've hit the nail on the head there Roy, it's only a matter of time before it really gets out of control. The sooner it's revised the better.
AstroDan
TS Team
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Surely a main issue is that RAP guests can take, what, 3? 4? More? People onto the ride with them...
On Tomb Blaster last week there were 8 people on EVERY train RAP...
That's 25% of the ride's capacity!!!!
It is insufferable and must change.
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On Tomb Blaster last week there were 8 people on EVERY train RAP...
That's 25% of the ride's capacity!!!!
It is insufferable and must change.
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imanautie
TS Member
I'll keep my thoughts on how it should be to this reply:
Photo card with the user's face, disability and barcode on.
Card gets scanned on loading and the host tells the user how long they have to wait for their next ride.
System logs how long the user would have queued and blocks the card from use until the time is up.
Sometimes there may be queues for ride access so let the host scan the card when the group join the queue.
If they leave then the host can scan the card again to cancel it.
No need to blockade guest services at the start of the day because the card can be reused.
The parks just need to make sure that the queue times are accurate, group sizes are enforced and everyone should be happy.
Photo card with the user's face, disability and barcode on.
Card gets scanned on loading and the host tells the user how long they have to wait for their next ride.
System logs how long the user would have queued and blocks the card from use until the time is up.
Sometimes there may be queues for ride access so let the host scan the card when the group join the queue.
If they leave then the host can scan the card again to cancel it.
No need to blockade guest services at the start of the day because the card can be reused.
The parks just need to make sure that the queue times are accurate, group sizes are enforced and everyone should be happy.
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