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Ride Access Pass Systems and Disabled Access (pre 2024)

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And remember that while indoor queues tend to have medium to full CCTV coverage, outdoor queues don't or have little.
 
jon81uk said:
I also think that parks should have considered in this day and age building queue lines that are accessible.
Disney do it this way, almost all queue lines are wheelchair accessible so a majority can just join normal queues, access passes are only needed for other disabilities (such as autism) where people cannot cope with waiting in the queue, rather than standing being the issue.
Considering it was only built three years ago, there are too many stairs in the Wickerman queue and the design could have been better thought through.
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Even if they could get round it, I don't think it's fair or productive to make wheelchair users wheel themselves round a long winding queueline.
 
speedy said:
Even if they could get round it, I don't think it's fair or productive to make wheelchair users wheel themselves round a long winding queueline.
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Why is it any less productive than making people walk around it? Shouldn't everyone have an equal opportunity at shuffling round a queue line?
 
The stairs out of Icon are completely unnecessary given the landscape is actually flat!
I used their EvE pass to avoid the exit stairs, but oh no, you are still expected to leave up the stairs with the rest!
Not good with two duff knees and one duff hip.
Poor staff had to give me a piggy back all the way to the top.
 
jon81uk said:
Why is it any less productive than making people walk around it? Shouldn't everyone have an equal opportunity at shuffling round a queue line?
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How do you decide who has enough mobility to go round the main line? There are folks who'll find it hard to go such long distances. Would also slow loading - a wheelchair user wouldn't fit through the airgates so how do they board?
 
speedy said:
How do you decide who has enough mobility to go round the main line? There are folks who'll find it hard to go such long distances. Would also slow loading - a wheelchair user wouldn't fit through the airgates so how do they board?
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A wheelchair doesn't fit through the air gates in the current set up so they must have an alternative method currently anyway?

Again the system at Disney is if you cannot stand in line then you should use a wheelchair or scooter, if you already make use of a wheelchair just join the line and move through it. Most wheelchair users either have enough mobility to get to the ride in the first place and therefore moving through a queue should be fine, or they travel with someone who is there to help them with the wheelchair.
 
Obviously not all disabilities are black and white, some will bend the rules but that can’t be an excuse to not provide the best accessibility available to guests who genuinely require it.

Isn’t it just common curtesy anyway?
 
jon81uk said:
A wheelchair doesn't fit through the air gates in the current set up so they must have an alternative method currently anyway?

Again the system at Disney is if you cannot stand in line then you should use a wheelchair or scooter, if you already make use of a wheelchair just join the line and move through it. Most wheelchair users either have enough mobility to get to the ride in the first place and therefore moving through a queue should be fine, or they travel with someone who is there to help them with the wheelchair.
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I believe most parks load wheelchair users via the exit platform
 
Think the main reason Disney have accessible queues are because of the high number of mobility scooters (NOT wheelchairs) that they get.

Disney Paris doesn't have many accessible queues, but nor do they have hundreds of mobility scooters. So I think it's not a completely Disney thing (newer rides like Ratatouille still have a separate disabled queue).

In terms of putting wheelchairs in queues it's a very awkward situation. Because they you have to widen the paths, and do you remove cattlepens? Imagine taking a wheelchair through Rita or Thirteen's queues! It's a very cramped space which does not work with wheelchairs in any of my experiences.

Also have to consider that most queues at Disney are constantly moving, and they have the alternative of Fastpass (which can be used on top of the disabled pass they do have) available for visitors. I'm literally planning on getting a MaxPass for California just because of the ability to book Fastpasses away from the rides.

Florida with Fastpass+ is probably even better for wheelchair users as you can properly full on plan this thing.

Bear in mind that at Towers disabled visitors SHOULD be waiting the same amount of time as normal queue. But it's a stretch to say someone who can transfer out of a wheelchair to get on a ride can stand in a 90 minute slow moving queue.

Weird how Icon has chucked people using disabled access up the exit. Though I've only ever been with wheelchair so we leave out the Speedy Pass queue anyway.

Majority of parks will have wheelchair up the exit or in a dedicated queue. Though Towers having said lift for Smiler go on the onload side is another design slight to add to that thing.
 
Benzin said:
Bear in mind that at Towers disabled visitors SHOULD be waiting the same amount of time as normal queue. But it's a stretch to say someone who can transfer out of a wheelchair to get on a ride can stand in a 90 minute slow moving queue.
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Yeah that's why someone who needs a wheelchair should remain in it, I would never expect someone who can't stand for long periods to stand.

Disney standby queues are actually some of the worst for not-moving, due to FastPass they often take 1-2 people from standby for every 8 from FastPass meaning the standby crawls by.

I do agree that actually Disney in the US does have a problem with the number of scooter users but I think allowing the regular queues to be large enough for them is the easiest way to deal with it. They do have a fair few long runs of switch-backs cattle pen style (I once saw a scooter user struggle with corners in the Big Thunder queue).

But Towers do seem to have issues with the size of their dedicated queues, which is partly where I think they do need to consider how to make it easier for people.
 
Benzin said:
Think the main reason Disney have accessible queues are because of the high number of mobility scooters (NOT wheelchairs) that they get.

Disney Paris doesn't have many accessible queues, but nor do they have hundreds of mobility scooters. So I think it's not a completely Disney thing (newer rides like Ratatouille still have a separate disabled queue).

In terms of putting wheelchairs in queues it's a very awkward situation. Because they you have to widen the paths, and do you remove cattlepens? Imagine taking a wheelchair through Rita or Thirteen's queues! It's a very cramped space which does not work with wheelchairs in any of my experiences.

Also have to consider that most queues at Disney are constantly moving, and they have the alternative of Fastpass (which can be used on top of the disabled pass they do have) available for visitors. I'm literally planning on getting a MaxPass for California just because of the ability to book Fastpasses away from the rides.

Florida with Fastpass+ is probably even better for wheelchair users as you can properly full on plan this thing.

Bear in mind that at Towers disabled visitors SHOULD be waiting the same amount of time as normal queue. But it's a stretch to say someone who can transfer out of a wheelchair to get on a ride can stand in a 90 minute slow moving queue.

Weird how Icon has chucked people using disabled access up the exit. Though I've only ever been with wheelchair so we leave out the Speedy Pass queue anyway.

Majority of parks will have wheelchair up the exit or in a dedicated queue. Though Towers having said lift for Smiler go on the onload side is another design slight to add to that thing.
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Going round Disney World you can often think you have dropped into WALL-E with all the large Americans trundling along on mobility scooters.
 
speedy said:
a wheelchair user wouldn't fit through the airgates so how do they board?
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Also if the boarding and exits are on opposite side of the track, then how do you get the wheelchair across the track? If a wheelchair boards and exit on the airgate side, then they will have to exit through the crowds of people queuing, unless you have a system like that on the Wickerman where you exit via the airgates and then exit through a different door.

shakey said:
So how do they get round the park? Towers for example is massive
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I have to tread carefully here as not to en-site hate and tarnish all disable with the same brush, as much as we are all entitle to free speech, we are not allowed to cause offence.

I see and hear this a lot, disable people justifying why they use disable facilities or have a blue badge on the bases that they can't walk far, but yet their actions contradicts their justification and speak volumes. I myself as a fit and healthy person find that walking around Alton Towers very tiring and exhausting, let alone imagining what it's like walking around the place having a mobility condition.

However, I do hear a lot about people conditions can be variant and that they have good days as well as bad days.

I feel the bottom line that the RAP should be used as a means to making rides accessible as oppose to being used as a free fast track. The current system of the time cards should work well if executed properly by the staff members marking down the time card properly. If any one knows, pens goes missing and ink do run out. It is down to Alton to ensure that the Staff have enough pens and make sure the cards are being marked appropriately, as well as closing down any other loop holes that people are taking advantage off.

Ideally, an electronic system in place that scans the wrist rap bands giving out the next ride time of some sort would probably be the way to go.
 
The only way to fix this is to have a system where there is no meaningful advantage to using RAP over not using it.

Those genuinely using it do not want preferential treatment, just equal access as the name suggests.

Difficult, because even if staff use the system as they should guests abusing it can get their card marked then go and use other attractions while they wait, that turns it into an advantageous system akin to fastrack. But if someone can work that out it's got to be the only way to go.


I've always thought, with the horrid prevalence of fastrack, the broken RAP system and the mess that is the discounted entrance ticket price structure, RAP could be fixed alongside everything else.
Wristband everyone; premium priced 'rider' ticket with timed return fastrack built in and access to standby queues while you wait, 'standard' ticket with access to standby queues only, and cheap 'visitor' ticket allowing access, monorail and skyride only. RAP could easily be built into that without allowing access to other attractions during virtual wait times. Scanners at each queue entrance so no extra staff. I really think it'd be a huge improvement.
 
@pluk the only drawback there is (with timed entry) that it will end up like Thorpe did when they tried virtual queuing and a secondary queue will form at the ride entrance of all the people turning up slightly early as to not miss their slot, it's still the best solution though but I don't know how you get around this issue (even if you make it an automatic scanner at the ride entrance you're still going to get people milling about and shouting at people who jump a queue that isn't there).
 
Maybe some sort of waiting room system would work for RAP users; at Towers, for example, RAP users could wait for a ride in that quiet room that opened in Towers Street not long ago so as they don't have to "queue", but it doesn't offer any obvious benefit over a regular park guest. I'm not sure it would work if there was only 1, but if they had one in each major area, for example, then I think it could work.
 
Matt N said:
Maybe some sort of waiting room system would work for RAP users; at Towers, for example, RAP users could wait for a ride in that quiet room that opened in Towers Street not long ago so as they don't have to "queue", but it doesn't offer any obvious benefit over a regular park guest. I'm not sure it would work if there was only 1, but if they had one in each major area, for example, then I think it could work.
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The issue for Merlin is that time the individual is on time out is when they should be buying things
 
Another problem that needs to be address, is where there are more than one person in the same group that has a RAP pass, both each have a time card and then use them alternatively to cheat the system as the other one rides as a carer alternatively. On one of my last visit last year, I saw this guy showing off the fact that he had a whole wad of time cards and were rotating them between rides to abuse the system. I don't know how he manage to get so many, but I presume that he either new a member of staff and was given a load or he took them when no one was looking.

Matt N said:
Maybe some sort of waiting room system would work for RAP users; at Towers, for example, RAP users could wait for a ride in that quiet room that opened in Towers Street not long ago so as they don't have to "queue", but it doesn't offer any obvious benefit over a regular park guest. I'm not sure it would work if there was only 1, but if they had one in each major area, for example, then I think it could work.
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Have you seen how many people are in a RAP queue line? A small confine room full of people may be overwhelming for many.

In Hex you spend all the pre-shows standing and walking, crammed with other people in confined rooms complete with strobe lighting. I really don't know how some guest manage it
 
IanSR said:
@pluk the only drawback there is (with timed entry) that it will end up like Thorpe did when they tried virtual queuing and a secondary queue will form at the ride entrance of all the people turning up slightly early as to not miss their slot.
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I think it'd work once it was understood. As long as the fastrack queue is walk on, which it should be rather than the dumb percentage of the main queue nonsense they currently work to which pleases noone and exacerbates the problem, people would be much more relaxed about it and just turn up within their window.

It does work elsewhere in the world, even if gate hanging does happen to a small extent.
 
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