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Ride Access Pass Systems and Disabled Access (pre 2024)

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pluk said:
I cannot see a way that the removal of entitlement from those who currently successfully claim it would not result in pitchforks, compo faces and media backlash all round. That is what Merlin are currently running scared from rather than tackling the problem, and they are probably right to do so. It has to be another way, where demand is managed rather than entitlement declined.
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To go back to Disney , they did exactly that a few years back, overhauling their policy much to the chagrin of many who had been twisting and bending their needs to qualify for a pass. Disney were applauded by genuine users who saw an immediate improvement of the service provided, and the park received positive press from many groups . Nobody who genuinely needs the service would be stopped from using it , so no compo faces. It would only affect those who have been bending the rules (large party sizes, exaggerating their needs , “losing” their RAP card are all common)
 
tayspru said:
To go back to Disney , they did exactly that a few years back, overhauling their policy much to the chagrin of many who had been twisting and bending their needs to qualify for a pass. Disney were applauded by genuine users who saw an immediate improvement of the service provided, and the park received positive press from many groups . Nobody who genuinely needs the service would be stopped from using it , so no compo faces. It would only affect those who have been bending the rules (large party sizes, exaggerating their needs , “losing” their RAP card are all common)
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I don't know the full details for the changes Disney implemented, but from memory there wasn't really much of a change to who was entitled, but rather what that entitlement meant, exactly the way I think Merlin need to go.

The original Disney pass allowed walk up ride entry with no wait, the change was to a system quite like the one Merlin have now. Still worth abusing to an extent, but much less so.
 
I think tightening it up could result in positive publicity, but it does feel like a risk...

Continuing to give it out to anyone who claims to have a limp or a lazy eye is not the way forward.
 
There's two different types of misuse being used almost interchangeably here - use of RAP by those who have no genuine need of it and RAP users not following the proper procedures (using a mix of RAP & main queues, "losing" cards, etc.). Failure of staff to correctly record the current queue times allows people to do the latter - I still count it as misuse as you could just wait as you're supposed to.

A crackdown on the 2nd form of misuse SHOULD reduce the incentive for the 1st, though no doubt it would still lead to a deluge of complaints from those who have grown used to being able to get on far more rides than those in the main queues could ever hope to.
 
People have joked about negative publicity in the press if RAP is clamped down on, but it almost seems like that's what is actually needed now. If genuine users of RAP were to appear in negative press stories about how others are exploiting the system and thereby stopping them from actually using it then that might be what Merlin need to shake it up.

I mean, we wouldn't accept this anywhere else in society. If people created forgeries of blue badges to get free parking and thus deprive genuine users the ability to leave their home then people would frankly be disgusted and those people would be ostracised... yet at a park, people are happy to do that same thing and feel no shame in bragging about it.
 
John said:
no doubt it would still lead to a deluge of complaints from those who have grown used to being able to get on far more rides than those in the main queues could ever hope to.
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That complaint is very easy to counter though, and spin to a positive.

I don't know of a genuine RAP user who wants an advantage over other guests, only equal access.
 
pluk said:
Electronic management would certainly be an improvement in terms of getting the wait time right, but any system which allows those using it to utilise another queue or ride while waiting. It could look even more like free fastrack!

One way around that could be a tight geolocation to the ride in question once the virtual queue is entered. If you wander off and do something else you lose your place. That really could work, and negate any necessity to manage the entrance to non-RAP queuelines.
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That sounds like it defeats the point of virtual queue for many people on some rides (notably the smiler)
 
tayspru said:
To go back to Disney , they did exactly that a few years back, overhauling their policy much to the chagrin of many who had been twisting and bending their needs to qualify for a pass. Disney were applauded by genuine users who saw an immediate improvement of the service provided, and the park received positive press from many groups . Nobody who genuinely needs the service would be stopped from using it , so no compo faces. It would only affect those who have been bending the rules (large party sizes, exaggerating their needs , “losing” their RAP card are all common)
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pluk said:
I don't know the full details for the changes Disney implemented, but from memory there wasn't really much of a change to who was entitled, but rather what that entitlement meant, exactly the way I think Merlin need to go.

The original Disney pass allowed walk up ride entry with no wait, the change was to a system quite like the one Merlin have now. Still worth abusing to an extent, but much less so.
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Disney changed to a system very similar to the current AT one, but you have to get the return time and wait it out first, Disney also had it as a paper card system to start with before rolling it into the app/fastpass system. There is nothing stopping guests going on other rides while holding a return time though there and I don't think there will be an easy solution to that (I don't think Disney see it as worth pursuing either). I think they almost see it as a good thing, if someone truly has a child who cannot wait for anything then entertaining them with a ride with a short wait whilst they are virtually waiting with DAS for a longer wait makes sense compared to a child having issues as they cannot understand why they have to wait.

The biggest change that Disney made to who is entitled was removing the need to pick up a DAS card for wheelchair and scooter users, instead this is just dealt with at the attraction entrance at the time. Only those with non-physical reasons why they can't queue need a card (now activation on the app). My understanding is that those in wheelchairs or scooters either join the main queue or get a return time from the entrance host on the other rides that don't have level access in the main queue. Whereas those with a DAS card get a return time on everything. By removing the ability for wheelchair users to wait out the line on many attractions it removed some of the abuse of the system as fewer people were entitled to come back later to ride.
 
Alsty said:
I mean, we wouldn't accept this anywhere else in society. If people created forgeries of blue badges to get free parking and thus deprive genuine users the ability to leave their home then people would frankly be disgusted and those people would be ostracised... yet at a park, people are happy to do that same thing and feel no shame in bragging about it.
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Amount of people who park in blue badge spaces without one shows that no one really cares unfortunately. People will do anything to get an advantage, even if it means those who actually need it suffer.

Much like how people visiting Disney "hired" disabled kids.
 
monkeyboy said:
Surely that’s the issue of overcrowding. Why would you need 3?
You could share that with multiple members of your group to go on with one carer


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The main reason is so that families don't have to split up. I have however seen larger families complain that they aren't all allowed to use the pass together.
 
monkeyboy said:
Surely that’s the issue of overcrowding. Why would you need 3?
You could share that with multiple members of your group to go on with one carer


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It's a tricky one because take me for example who doesn't need anyone with them on rides, it's actually quicker for both operations and me if I actually bring 3 people with me on SAW (not that i do).

There's a few other examples where especially during covid rap groups at the limit work better.
 
Following on from the discussion on the general Towers thread, I think Towers need to make small, gradual changes to the RAP. Too many at once could be catastropic, for reasons previously discussed. I think the first thing they need to do is strictly enforce the max carer limit per disabled guest on rides. That is one contributory factor to current issues, so would be a good starting point for change.
 
Skyscraper said:
Following on from the discussion on the general Towers thread, I think Towers need to make small, gradual changes to the RAP. Too many at once could be catastropic, for reasons previously discussed. I think the first thing they need to do is strictly enforce the max carer limit per disabled guest on rides. That is one contributory factor to current issues, so would be a good starting point for change.
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Why would it need to be gradual? Every RAP user has an email contact and should receive an information pack detailing exactly what changes will be made , the reason why these things are changing, and the date it will happen. Gradual change wouldn’t really help anything. Do it in partnership with experts and ensure the subtext is essentially we know people abuse the system , this is what we’re doing about it
 
The carers should be limited to 3 that can ride with the person with the wristband, as that's not taking up more than one row/car on a coaster. I've seen instances of about 6 people riding with the RAP user, so I think this needs to be strictly enforced. I think 3 is a perfectly reasonable number for reasons listed above - one row on Nemesis/Galactica/Smiler, one car on Rita, Spinball, Mine Train, 13 - and only a quarter of seats on Oblivion. Any more than that is pushing it too far.
 
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