• ℹ️ Heads up...

    This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.

Ride/Park Accidents

Skyscraper said:
Seatbelts are "redundant" safety features though; they are there to make the rider feel safer but will physically keep the restraint from opening fully if it failed catastrophically.
Click to expand...

They also force a physical mandatory minimum closing point, regardless of what any sensor thinks is happening. Plenty of rides out there that will go dispatch green but if you are the wrong shape the belt won't buckle so they won't send it.
 
pluk said:
They also force a physical mandatory minimum closing point, regardless of what any sensor thinks is happening. Plenty of rides out there that will go dispatch green but if you are the wrong shape the belt won't buckle so they won't send it.
Click to expand...
That's a good point, yeah if the belt clips you're good to go, if it doesn't then you're not. :)

Edit:

According to this video, which outlines what is already known and aims to clear up any speculation and misinformation, the ride does have proximity sensors and also has hydraulic restraints, which do not move once locked. There are lights next to each seat and the computer is programmed to not dispatch the ride unless the sensors are all indicating that all the restraints are down and locked properly. The restraint in question was reading as locked properly before the ride was dispatched.

 
Last edited:
Skyscraper said:
Seatbelts are "redundant" safety features though; they are there to make the rider feel safer but will physically keep the restraint from opening fully if it failed catastrophically.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. If the forces are strong enough a seatbelt is not 100% safe.

I was on Xcelerator at Knotts recently and there is a red dot in marker pen on the side of all of the seats. The staff must ensure the bottom of the restraint lines up with the dot or they won't dispatch the ride. This prevents any gap between the restraint and seat.
 
Skyscraper said:
Seatbelts are "redundant" safety features though; they are there to make the rider feel safer but will physically keep the restraint from opening fully if it failed catastrophically.
Click to expand...
Isn't that a contradiction in terms ?
 
pluk said:
Redundant in the sense that they do save the day on the occurance of what should be a 'never' event of the simultaneous failure of multiple other safety measures. Unfortunately 'never' events do happen.
Click to expand...
Yeah that's what I meant. I should've worded it better. :oops:
 
I have ridden Highlander at Hansa Park several times and found the restraints to be reassuring, but I am of slim build. As such, during the (absolutely terrifying) moment at which the seats tilt, I felt completely secure each time. However, the seat doesn't have the more reassuring 'bucket' sculpt of similar drop towers, Intamin's for example, or those on a B&M Dive Machine. The restraint feels like it does more work. Unless Funtime's design is fundamentally flawed, especially for the American market, I have idea how this could have happened with proximity sensors in operation. I haven't seen, and won't be watching the video any time soon, but this is a horrifying and tragic incident. It's inconceviable to me that they're still continuing to operate the Starflyer next door?!
 
Skyscraper said:
Seatbelts are "redundant" safety features though; they are there to make the rider feel safer but will physically keep the restraint from opening fully in the unlikely event it failed catastrophically.
Click to expand...
I wasn't saying that seat belts don't have a purpose on some attractions. But if someone sinks 12 pints, goes out driving and smashrs themselves up in an accident, I wouldn't start pondering over whether the car should have been fitted with air bags or not as a first port of call.
 
NuttySquirrel said:
No safety-critical system should have a single point of failure, there should always be redundancies built in
Click to expand...
The problem with hydraulic restraints is they usually just have two cylinders, whereas mechanical restraints usually have at least three ratchets and pins on each ride for redundancy. That's why Icon at Blackpool PB had seatbelts fitted.
 
Matt.GC said:
Any restraint that requires a seatbelt as a backup is not fit for purpose.
Click to expand...

Maybe tell B&M they have been doing wrong on their inverts all these years then.

I'm sorry but that statement is ridiculous. Surely a seatbelt added is an extra barrier of safety. Adding them doesn't suggest the restraint isn't safe to begin with. Not in my eyes it doesn't anyway. It's just taking an extra precaution. A seatbelt may and probably would have saved this kids life.
 
Benjsh said:
Maybe tell B&M they have been doing wrong on their inverts all these years then.

I'm sorry but that statement is ridiculous. Surely a seatbelt added is an extra barrier of safety. Adding them doesn't suggest the restraint isn't safe to begin with. Not in my eyes it doesn't anyway. It's just taking an extra precaution. A seatbelt may and probably would have saved this kids life.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you should read and digest a comment before you get all excited and make responses to points that nobody made.

Any restraint that does REQUIRE a seat belt as any thing other than a very last resort is not fit for purpose. Putting a sprinkler system in a tower block is no substitute for not covering it in flammable cladding.

Properly maintained, operated and designed B&M invert restraints don't rely on their seatbelts as an integral safety feature to their safe operation. How many B&M inverts have you known over 30 years of operation that have solely relied on the seatbelt to get a passenger safely to the break run? B&M don't rely on seatbelts, they rely on well designed restraints that don't need fly open in the first place.

Almost immediately pointing the finger at the lack of seatbelts on this attraction, which is the way the thread was heading, skirts over the fact that it's simply completely unacceptable that any OTSR should be able to release at any point during a rides operation. This is where any sort of investigation will, and should, start - the root cause of what would have prevented the need for any belt to be needed as a failsafe in the first place.
 
But there is no shadow of doubt in my mind that this ride will not reopen without seatbelts.
The root cause will no doubt be a design failure in the design of restraint and tilting seat, but seatbelts will be retrofitted, as has happened on other rides over the years.
A sad, needless death, that a fifty quid basic safety product would have stopped.
 
Just reading up on Funtime who made the drop tower and they had a few accidents on there rides over the years. I still remember that Rocket ride cable snapping.
I feel for the parents of the young adult and hope they don’t blame his friends parents for letting him on the ride.
I hope now all theses towers rides across the world have seat belts fitted and nothing against big people but most rides have to click into place and can’t operate unless it’s clicked at least 3 positions my friend couldn’t ride apocalypse cause of this.
 
If these restraints are bought directly from Gerst, then presumably the locking is hydraulic rather than mechanical. If that is the case then they'll lock in any position - the minimum close point would depend only on the calibration of the sensors.
 
John said:
If these restraints are bought directly from Gerst, then presumably the locking is hydraulic rather than mechanical. If that is the case then they'll lock in any position - the minimum close point would depend only on the calibration of the sensors.
Click to expand...

See my earlier post;

Skyscraper said:
Edit:

According to this video, which outlines what is already known and aims to clear up any speculation and misinformation, the ride does have proximity sensors and also has hydraulic restraints, which do not move once locked. There are lights next to each seat and the computer is programmed to not dispatch the ride unless the sensors are all indicating that all the restraints are down and locked properly. The restraint in question was reading as locked properly before the ride was dispatched.

Click to expand...
 
Matt.GC said:
Perhaps you should read and digest a comment before you get all excited and make responses to points that nobody made.

Any restraint that does REQUIRE a seat belt as any thing other than a very last resort is not fit for purpose. Putting a sprinkler system in a tower block is no substitute for not covering it in flammable cladding.

Properly maintained, operated and designed B&M invert restraints don't rely on their seatbelts as an integral safety feature to their safe operation. How many B&M inverts have you known over 30 years of operation that have solely relied on the seatbelt to get a passenger safely to the break run? B&M don't rely on seatbelts, they rely on well designed restraints that don't need fly open in the first place.

Almost immediately pointing the finger at the lack of seatbelts on this attraction, which is the way the thread was heading, skirts over the fact that it's simply completely unacceptable that any OTSR should be able to release at any point during a rides operation. This is where any sort of investigation will, and should, start - the root cause of what would have prevented the need for any belt to be needed as a failsafe in the first place.
Click to expand...

I don't think it released tbh. I don't think it was ever clicked into place. There's footage of the restraint looking far from locked into place as the ride is about to start. That seems to have been the issue.

Also I didn't say rely on at any point did I? Please learn to read.

If there was a seatbelt, similar to Nemesis, it would have been almost impossible to fall out. Still would have got injured no doubt but may have survived.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top