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Save the British Theme Park Industry
- Thread starter Thameslink Rail
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Thameslink Rail
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- The Smiler
And that's what I'm hoping to do and what I would advise my friends to do. I wonder if we could do some minimeets at smaller parks when we are allowed to.
Skyscraper
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- Nemesis
I second that, although those might not be popular as the smaller parks tend to offer less thrills for us big kids.
D4n
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- Zadra
I made an active effort to visit as many smaller UK parks as possible last year. Partly for variety in the absence of European trips, partly for a "cred hunt" but mainly because these places desperately needed customers to stay afloat.
Within reason we should all aim to do the same.
However, sadly, money is tight for many at the moment and a lot of these places simply do not represent value for money. Especially relative to the (until recently) dirt cheap MAP.
Within reason we should all aim to do the same.
However, sadly, money is tight for many at the moment and a lot of these places simply do not represent value for money. Especially relative to the (until recently) dirt cheap MAP.
Benjsh
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- Steel Vengeance
And here lies the problem. People would rather get a Merlin pass than pay £25 to visit a bog standard seaside park with rides that predate the birth of the internet. And tbh so would I. I'm not a cred hunter either so have no ambition to ride 100 wacky worm coasters etc.
At the end of the day if a place has a good product, is priced reasonably well and has acceptable levels of service it will be a success. Paultons are living proof of this. They have always been a relatively small family park but they are growing into a big player in the UK market now. They have done that by making good choices and offering a good product.
Too many places have sadly not done this. Drayton, Lightwater valley, pleasure wood hills to name but a few are examples of parks that have been ran badly for far too long. They haven't moved with the times like Paultons did and have all led to financial difficulty.
jon81uk
TS Member
Also need to consider what other leisure options there are now that didn't exist 20 years ago. There are new options for family days out competing for people cash. Go Ape was set up 20 years ago and is doing incredibly well. Places like the Eden Project and I think there has been a big rise in Adventure Mini Golf, escape rooms and other entertainment.
I think back 20/25 years ago theme parks and swimming pools with water slides were big draws, but there are a lot more options for types of things to do.
I think back 20/25 years ago theme parks and swimming pools with water slides were big draws, but there are a lot more options for types of things to do.
Benzin
TS Member
Is that not also going to be the case across the continent as well?
I think a lot of it comes with a bit of risk taking and a long term plan. Neither of these are particularly Merlin centric ideas, and Blackpool's risk fell flat.
Paultons are about the only UK park you can look at and sense there's so long term plan behind them. And even that was only after Peppa essentially saved it.
It's quite possible though that Europe are essentially 20 years behind the UK in the theme park cycle and are experiencing the boom we had in the 90s.
I think a lot of it comes with a bit of risk taking and a long term plan. Neither of these are particularly Merlin centric ideas, and Blackpool's risk fell flat.
Paultons are about the only UK park you can look at and sense there's so long term plan behind them. And even that was only after Peppa essentially saved it.
It's quite possible though that Europe are essentially 20 years behind the UK in the theme park cycle and are experiencing the boom we had in the 90s.
jon81uk
TS Member
I'm not familiar enough to know what leisure options there are in other countries.
In parts I would say this might be true, but in other places it is government funding that has helped. Some parks (PortAventura) probably did already peak.
Is it just me who feels fairly transient when it comes to these things?
There's been a lot of products/services I've got very fond memories of -
Childrens World, American Adventure, Happy Eater, Virgin Megastores, BlackBerry...
They're all gone now, and there's a reason why in each case. Things come, things go. Enjoy them while you can.
In general (last year excepted) quality of life improves. That's all that's really important.
There's been a lot of products/services I've got very fond memories of -
Childrens World, American Adventure, Happy Eater, Virgin Megastores, BlackBerry...
They're all gone now, and there's a reason why in each case. Things come, things go. Enjoy them while you can.
In general (last year excepted) quality of life improves. That's all that's really important.
jon81uk
TS Member
Yes and no. As nice as it was having music in physical media and going to Virgin Megastore or HMV (or Woolworths) to pick it out, I do like the ability to open Spotify and find anything.
But for entertainment & leisure there are some things that just can't be done in the same way, a safari park can be more engaging than a documentary, a rollercoaster is better than a virtual reality headset, swinging through trees at Go Ape is better than making Donkey Kong do it etc.
But if people aren't interested in the product enough for the company to survive, they need to ensure they are providing a day out people really want.
Rick
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- Crux
I think they can be more engaging, but not sure A beats B by default. There are so many options for leisure time & spend now, a massively crowded market with things that you wouldn't expect competing with each other. Thorpe Park for the day vs. two casual dining experiences over the course of a month.
We're big Go Ape fans, but that's a £100+ afternoon out of the house by the time we've paid for fuel to get there, paid to do it and a brew from the services on the way home. If we do Go Ape, we might opt for an evening with Attenborough over a safari park the following weekend.
That's true, but as much as anything it's about providing a day out that enough people want. The cost profile of theme parks is such that there are masses of fixed costs. Take a River Rapids ride, for example, the cost of maintaining and inspecting it is x, the cost of running it for 170 operating days is y. That doesn't fluctuate all that much if you have 250k riders, or a million riders.
Theme parks require volume to make them work, (not just superficial volume from the MAP community), I think that's the core problem in a lot of cases.
jon81uk
TS Member
I use Go Ape as an example because its the same price as Alton Towers, about £34. For many people its also closer so less fuel and food costs too. But yes, I wouldn't do either every weekend either. even the cinema can be too expensive to do it more than once a month.
and I think I already mentioned in this thread or the other one, there is so much comeption for sure, escape rooms and other smaller venues are also now competing against the theme parks. As you say, a meal out and something else could be the same spend as a theme park day and therefore the theme park has to look appealing enough.
Completly agree on this and I think 20 years of Tussauds/Merlin annual passes has harmed the whole theme park industry by making the average visit too cheap or by locking people in to Tussauds/Merlin. When we had a pass we rarely went to Drayton Manor as we had already "paid" for Alton Towers or Thorpe Park with the annual pass.
Thameslink Rail
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Suggestion: should this page be merged with Matt N's as the discussion on them is basically the same?
I don't know, I think it's good to have a bit of friendly competition between topics.
I think you're mistaking the thrust of my post - I'm not saying that everything is naturally replaced by something better; I'm simply saying that businesses don't last forever and I'm not one for 'campaigning' to prevent the inevitable happening (to a business, not necessarily the physical artifacts of failing/failed businesses).
Everything has a time. If enough people continue to enjoy roller coasters, then they will continue to be available. If they don't, they won't.
jon81uk
TS Member
I did say that if not enough people are interested in the product to make it a viable business that can survive they will need to improve their product or something to survice.
But also I think there are some things worth trying to preserve so people get a chance to try them. Listening to music on CD or on Spotify largely gives the same experience, there is no need to keep the CD industry going for no reason. But with rollercoasters, is there any other way to get that experience, maybe they should be preserved?
Thameslink Rail
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Just had a thought, if (heaven forbid) Blackpool Pleasure Beach collapses, the land it's on probably couldn't be used for much else because there are so many listed buildings so either it's left derelict with the council maintaining the listed buildings (which they probably couldn't afford) or some company/preservation society buys the park and operates whatevers left.
You're still missing my point I'm afraid.
The experience of going to Virgin Megastores and wasting an hour looking at CDs I had no intention of purchasing is not the same as listening to a track. That experience doesn't really exist any more, even though I enjoyed doing it.
The time I spent doing that isn't now taken up with anything in particular, it's just gone. How much I liked it, or even how much people liked it collectively, was not a factor in whether it continued to exist or not. It simply was no longer a viable thing, and I'm OK with that, that's my point.
There are already preserved roller coasters, and I hope there are more - but acknowledging the merits of preserving a physical structure and campaigning to 'save' a dying industry (if that's what theme parks are, I'm not entirely convinced) are two very different things conceptually.
jon81uk
TS Member
But there is no point preserving the structure only, I'd rather we preserved the "concept" so future people get to enjoy them. Preserving the structure means we end up with the corkscrew loops as a statue. Preserving the industry might mean we lose the corkscrew, but we gain Thirteen or The Smiler etc.
Closing Virgin Megastore didn't get rid of the music industry, but the focus switched to live gigs and streaming, we still have music. I get your point about we shouldn't lament over things that disappeared due to them no longer being viable. But if something closing means there is no longer any of that type of thing available then I think that is different and thought should be put into keeping it going.
Woolworths closing didn't mean I never got to buy Pic'n'Mix sweets again, Wilko and other places started selling them. But if Blackpool Pleasure Beach closed and there was no where else that started offering that product, it would be a huge loss.
You can't preserve an industry - it can either exist because there is enough financial support for it, or fail because there is not.
Strange as it might sound, I'd be OK in an alternative world where new roller coasters ceased to be - typing that you realise that this is pretty far from reality though.