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Seat Belts on Rapids Rides

S

Smiley

TS Member
Team edit: Thread carried over from the Thorpe Park topic.

Back to seat belts on rapids, we've got airbags and seat belt pretensioners in cars - both that operate sub 100ms. It's not beyond the wit of man to have auto-release dinghy seat belts on abnormal water detection or a switch to detect orientation. Of course the question is: "How much is a life worth?"
 
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Smiley said:
Back to seat belts on rapids, we've got airbags and seat belt pretensioners in cars - both that operate sub 100ms. It's not beyond the wit of man to have auto-release dinghy seat belts on abnormal water detection or a switch to detect orientation. Of course the question is: "How much is a life worth?"
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Of course that's not the question lol.

You have on the one side the automotive industry, selling I don't know how many billions of cars around the world, with a behemoth of R&D behind it, compared to a very drastically smaller market for water-based amusement rides, which won't have anywhere near the same amount of R&D available at its disposal.
 
I know 😉 But can anyone answer the question "How many accidents/lives could have been avoided/saved with seatbelts vs made worse without?".
 
Smiley said:
Back to seat belts on rapids, we've got airbags and seat belt pretensioners in cars - both that operate sub 100ms. It's not beyond the wit of man to have auto-release dinghy seat belts on abnormal water detection or a switch to detect orientation. Of course the question is: "How much is a life worth?"
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its not really a cost problem more about a viable solution, and it would probably be safer without them since they would probably be compex and likely to fail. like from a mechanical/electrical point of view how could you do it?
have some mechanical mechanism built into the boats to detect the change in water and reliease the seatbetls:
it would probably be very complex, but also this is a water ride... the parts will probably corrode and require a ton of maitanence to keep working, and whith complexity and corrosion it would increse the chances of failure, if it flips and the mechanism doesn't work right, or some parts are ceased you may as well have normal seatbelts.
Have some electrical system to detect the water level and reliease them when it is too high:
first of all where is the sensor? in the boat on the back, it all gets wet, ok lets have a sensor that detects if it flips, well that may work (although there would be quite a few probems with it) how do you get power? the boats don't have any connection to the station, you would have to some how electrically connect the boats to the station to charge a battery, if it has exposed contacts, well you have the chance of electrified water! in addition how long dose this battery last? where dose this battery go? water proof is good, but won't last forever how do you reliease the seatbelts, how reliable is it (how long dose the batteries last, how likely is the reliease mechanism to jam etc)

In summary it is probably safer to not have a system that releases seatbelts since they have a chance of failing and would require a huge change in boat design, station design, ride design, it probably would need to be an entire differnt ride.
 
Not sure if this is entirely relevant, but I went on an old-style Intamin Rapids ride in Japan at Hirakata Park where seatbelts had been added and the use of them was being enforced. In Japan, I assume this is deemed as necessary in order to prevent standing.

Whereas in the UK, the question of seat belts on Rapids rides has, I’m sure, come up numerous times, but UK H&S has decided that the risk of boats flipping over and disorientated guests not being able to free themselves is too big a risk to put seat belts in.

Neither option is 100% perfect. You prevent accidents from people not getting stuck when the boat flips, but you then open up a new risk of people potentially falling in if standing up. The conversations will almost certainly have been had about which is the bigger risk, and UK H&S will have decided that the risk of people getting stuck if the boats flip is a far greater risk. And have therefore demanded control measures such as CCTV, water rescue training for staff, spotters all over the ride and constant announcements telling you to sit down.
 
Enter Valhalla said:
Not sure if this is entirely relevant, but I went on an old-style Intamin Rapids ride in Japan at Hirakata Park where seatbelts had been added and the use of them was being enforced. In Japan, I assume this is deemed as necessary in order to prevent standing.
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The Jurassic Park rapids in Singapore has seat belts too.
 
Cedar Point and Kings Island rapids both have seat belts. Can't remember about the other US parks I've visited.
They were both absolute soakers as well.
 
Surely it would be possible for a weighted gyro ball within the raft to be used with a belt system? So that if an invert occurred it would release the belts ?
 
Enter Valhalla said:
Neither option is 100% perfect. You prevent accidents from people not getting stuck when the boat flips, but you then open up a new risk of people potentially falling in if standing up
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An interesting question, who does the risk impact?

Without seat belts, the risk is predominantly to those who disregard the rules and stand up or move around in the boat.
With seat belts, the risk is to everybody in the boat if there is an overturning event. Potentially an even higher risk for children and those with disabilities.
 
Seatbelts on rapids are only there to stop riders standing up, they offer no actual safety benefit. As has been pointed out already, they are, in fact, a danger should the raft flip over.

Even if they had a simple car-style catch that you could unclip yourself, it's a known fact that in a panic, people fumble with seatbelts. If you ever saw the Mythbusters episodes on escaping from a car that's sinking in water, you'll know that every fraction of a second counts. If it was any other kind of catch, the fumbling would only be worse. When planes have to evacuate in a hurry, many people suddenly can't work out how to undo their belt. Panicing people don't think rationally.

As for any kind of "automatic" release mechanism... Be it electrical or mechanical, things can and do fail. And sod's law dictates that those failures will happen at the worst possible moment.

Besides, how would such locking belts be controlled in the station? Would some kind of power source need to be attached to each boat? That would seriously slow down loading times. I've not been on the larger American rapids so I can't comment on how they work. Are the belts locked, or can you unclip them at any time?
 
Seems like we're continuing to operate rides with inherent design flaws then. I know accidents do happen, but we tend to fix rides so they don't happen again. Maybe the rafts need BOTH seat belts (to keep you well strapped in) AND a "raft air bag" so if it does overturn the raft will remain afloat - albeit upside down.

Will definitely be riding more often - I like the danger risk!! 😁
 
DiogoJ42 said:
Seatbelts on rapids are only there to stop riders standing up, they offer no actual safety benefit. As has been pointed out already, they are, in fact, a danger should the raft flip over.

Even if they had a simple car-style catch that you could unclip yourself, it's a known fact that in a panic, people fumble with seatbelts. If you ever saw the Mythbusters episodes on escaping from a car that's sinking in water, you'll know that every fraction of a second counts. If it was any other kind of catch, the fumbling would only be worse. When planes have to evacuate in a hurry, many people suddenly can't work out how to undo their belt. Panicing people don't think rationally.

As for any kind of "automatic" release mechanism... Be it electrical or mechanical, things can and do fail. And sod's law dictates that those failures will happen at the worst possible moment.

Besides, how would such locking belts be controlled in the station? Would some kind of power source need to be attached to each boat? That would seriously slow down loading times. I've not been on the larger American rapids so I can't comment on how they work. Are the belts locked, or can you unclip them at any time?
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The rapids at Disney & Universal have airplane or car style latches, as far as I am aware there is nothing stopping guests unclipping them at anytime.
 
We don't need to keep people in the seat, only in the raft. Lightweight netting on supports around the boat should be able to be designed to not destabilise the boat by being top heavy but mean that anyone standing and falling can hit some nice padded seats and rails instead of the water.
 
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Adding restraints to rapids would result in a reduced amount of people messing around in the boats, and therefore this could potentially reduce injuries, but I think that more effort should go into preventing the boats from capsizing instead of fitting seatbelts.
 
I’m sorry but I’m not keen on this argument of “people standing up are breaking the rules so it’s their fault” When water is slipping into a boat from the sides near where you’re sitting, unfortunately it’s second nature to stand up to avoid it. I reckon a lot of people do it without even thinking. I don’t think there’s many people who get on to a ride with the intention of “I’m going to intentionally stand up on this ride to break the rules” Sadly it just happens, and the parks have to do everything they can to protect people who do end up doing it.
 
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