The Alton Bypass

[Rob]

And that would happen all the time with a park and ride service. You'd still need a bypass for a park and ride.

 

[delta79]

The issue with park and ride is it's the busses that can't cope on those roads, the cars are inconvenient for locals but the roads can manage them. The busses are a nightmare and if two meet on farley lane or in Alton village its stupid.

Churnet Valley line anyone

 

[Dave]

The issue with park and ride is it's the busses that can't cope on those roads, the cars are inconvenient for locals but the roads can manage them. The busses are a nightmare and if two meet on farley lane or in Alton village its stupid.

Churnet Valley line anyone

Better but you would need a convoy of busses to get everyone up the road to the Towers is 25,000 people came through the train. Getting that line open would help massively though!

As much as I know cars are a problem, the only options really are keep things as they are or a bypass

 

[delta79]

Better but you would need a convoy of busses to get everyone up the road to the Towers is 25,000 people came through the train. Getting that line open would help massively though!

It would take a 70 seater coach 358 trips to giving a total theoretical maximum of 25,060 people
moved.

Surely they could get some sort of people moving installed down to the alton gate (i think that the name) as it was originally for getting from the station to the towers? or look at making siding and platform down at the hotel side.

 

[smudge]

Cars are not the issue, as many have pointed out, so what about only allowing cars to use the road through Alton & Farley? Coaches could park by the/a railway station on the other side, using an alternative route, then the throughput of the trains shouldn't be too much of a an issue either. I don't know any numbers, but I imagine the percentage of people arriving by coach/bus is quite small.

Not only that, it would be quite a novelty to arrive on train, maybe even scanning tickets before they get onto the train so the 'experience' begins before you arrive at the park.
Who knows, maybe even a HP style train? yeah, right!

 

[Dave]

They could look at using the old carriage drive from the station gate. Certainly they need the train line back in Alton and a shuttle service from that to the park but I still think the only viable long term solution is the bypass.

Will be shocked if it ever happens though

 

[LiamC]

Ok - ideal world scenario here.

2 large car parks. One on the side of the M1, one on the side of the M6. Car parks are secure, and coaches can use them too. Then, have a high speed frequent high speed monorail service direct into the theme park. Charge the current car parking charge which includes monorail transport.

At the theme park, the hotel car park remains but guests have to prove they are staying at the hotel.

Keep the smallish car park by the theme park entrance, but charge a stupid amount to park there, say £30 per car.

Remove the old monorail and scrap it.

Remove the old car parks and expand the park into them, so more rides can be built and Splash Landings waterpark can be expanded.

This will bring:

(a) less traffic through the village
(b) encourage people not to drive to the theme park unless staying overnight (give people a choice over the car parking charges)
(c) allow for more expansion of the theme park and hotels
(d) keep the locals happy
(e) be more environmentally friendly
(f) easier for people to get to the theme park than finding their way off the motorways to it

Of course, this would be extremely expensive to do, but entirely possible if AT put ALL the money over the years received from the car parking charges into the project.

Even if they had the money this wouldn't be a viable option. I don't think the park would be able to do it without the full backing of local councils and governments, let alone getting around local groups that would absolutely reject this notion on both M1 and M6 sides of the park.

The distance from the M1 to Alton alone is roughly 45 miles via road. If you were to build a monorail as the crow flies you could perhaps cut this down by around 15 miles? That's a 30 mile long, high speed, modern monorail that the park would need to build. This would cut through miles and miles of countryside and farm land that is uneven and quite wide ranging in its topography. You would easily be looking at upwards of £100million I'd hazard a guess at and that's before we even had a look at doing it from the M6.

I know you've said in an ideal world but, unfortunately, even in an ideal world I don't think this would be viable full stop I'm afraid

I don't think he meant the car parks would be literally next to the motorways. I read it as though there would be car parks on either side corresponding to the two motorways (not too far away from the park itself though), so that traffic was routed into the park through two entrances rather than one.

I disagree. If they were to be so close to the park then why get rid of the monorail and build another one that would run at such a high speed? Also if this is the case why get rid of the car parks at present? Why not just reroute roads from the M6 and M1 to feed directly into them and bypass the surrounding villages?

 

[Alastair]

Ok - ideal world scenario here.

2 large car parks. One on the side of the M1, one on the side of the M6. Car parks are secure, and coaches can use them too. Then, have a high speed frequent high speed monorail service direct into the theme park. Charge the current car parking charge which includes monorail transport.

At the theme park, the hotel car park remains but guests have to prove they are staying at the hotel.

Keep the smallish car park by the theme park entrance, but charge a stupid amount to park there, say £30 per car.

Remove the old monorail and scrap it.

Remove the old car parks and expand the park into them, so more rides can be built and Splash Landings waterpark can be expanded.

This will bring:

(a) less traffic through the village
(b) encourage people not to drive to the theme park unless staying overnight (give people a choice over the car parking charges)
(c) allow for more expansion of the theme park and hotels
(d) keep the locals happy
(e) be more environmentally friendly
(f) easier for people to get to the theme park than finding their way off the motorways to it

Of course, this would be extremely expensive to do, but entirely possible if AT put ALL the money over the years received from the car parking charges into the project.

Even if they had the money this wouldn't be a viable option. I don't think the park would be able to do it without the full backing of local councils and governments, let alone getting around local groups that would absolutely reject this notion on both M1 and M6 sides of the park.

The distance from the M1 to Alton alone is roughly 45 miles via road. If you were to build a monorail as the crow flies you could perhaps cut this down by around 15 miles? That's a 30 mile long, high speed, modern monorail that the park would need to build. This would cut through miles and miles of countryside and farm land that is uneven and quite wide ranging in its topography. You would easily be looking at upwards of £100million I'd hazard a guess at and that's before we even had a look at doing it from the M6.

I know you've said in an ideal world but, unfortunately, even in an ideal world I don't think this would be viable full stop I'm afraid

I don't think he meant the car parks would be literally next to the motorways. I read it as though there would be car parks on either side corresponding to the two motorways (not too far away from the park itself though), so that traffic was routed into the park through two entrances rather than one.

I disagree. If they were to be so close to the park then why get rid of the monorail and build another one that would run at such a high speed? Also if this is the case why get rid of the car parks at present? Why not just reroute roads from the M6 and M1 to feed directly into them and bypass the surrounding villages?

The existing car parks wouldn't be large enough, and aren't placed suitably enough to take all traffic from the M1/M6 - which is why new ones would have to be built. Also, I presume he meant a Magic Kingdom style monorail rather than a bullet train or something - it can't be denied that the current monorail is really very slow by park transportation standards.

 

[James]

They could do with a new monorail system on park (following the same route of course). I really hope one day Towers Street and the Monorail get knocked down (or refurbished in some parts) and re-done. Sadly I cannot see that happening when the park has Merlin at the helm.

 

[GaryH]

The idea was just a fantasy one - ideal world scenario, I know it would never happen.

As for the park and ride car parks, I wasnt thinking literally right next to the motorways, but not far from them either, so people can literally turn off, drive for a short while and then park up.

As for the monorail, yeah it would have to run through the countryside, again, something which probably wouldnt get approval, it was just a thought, but I was thinking a large (as in high capacity) train, sitting low to the ground so its not too obvious, but capable of high speeds, so the journey to the park would take, at a guess, lets say 10-15 mins tops. Again, its just a fantasty idea.

With the current situation...... the only real option Alton have for any easing of the traffic, like Dave says, it to re-open the railway line. However, getting people into the park from the station would be the problem, unless Alton were to re-open the path from the flagtower into the park (the old entrance) and put entrance gates etc there (cant really see that happening).

Also, those saying cars are not the problem, I disagree. I would hate to live around there, its a constant flow of traffic at the peak hours (8-10am and 4-6pm). Imaging going to and coming from work in that area and having to battle the traffic every day. Getting out of your street/driveway must be a nightmare waiting for someone to let you out.

On peak summer days and events i've even queued all the way through the lanes (coming from M6 side) where the road approaches Alton village, all the way up to the park entrance.

 

[PeteB]

it can't be denied that the current monorail is really very slow by park transportation standards.

It would help if they ran it properly like they used to prior to Merlin's greedy mits. It only ever seems to run 2 trains on the busiest periods these days. Once upon a time I remember the queues in the stations would be constantly moving and trains arriving only seconds after the previous one left.

It's capable of over 5000 people per hour isn't it?

 

[Dave]

it can't be denied that the current monorail is really very slow by park transportation standards.

It would help if they ran it properly like they used to prior to Merlin's greedy mits. It only ever seems to run 2 trains on the busiest periods these days. Once upon a time I remember the queues in the stations would be constantly moving and trains arriving only seconds after the previous one left.

It's capable of over 5000 people per hour isn't it?

It never runs 2 trains at the beginning and end of the day, the minimum I have seen is 4. If they had only 2 trains running that would be a dispatch every 10 minutes! One irritating thing they do do is even f they know it's a busy day they will open on 4 then add the other 2 half an hour later which stops the system for ages, they should just start with all the trains on the system.

I think it once was capable of running 8 (I may be wrong) but think due to H&S and lack of trains it tends to run a max of 6 now I think. But someone might know better.

 

[thefatone]

Yeah it runs on maximum 6 now, which is usually the absolute maximum amount of trains they have available anyway (1 being in maintenance always, and one usually needing repair).

Usually on 4 or 5 on normal-busy days.

 

[PeteB]

it can't be denied that the current monorail is really very slow by park transportation standards.

It would help if they ran it properly like they used to prior to Merlin's greedy mits. It only ever seems to run 2 trains on the busiest periods these days. Once upon a time I remember the queues in the stations would be constantly moving and trains arriving only seconds after the previous one left.

It's capable of over 5000 people per hour isn't it?

It never runs 2 trains at the beginning and end of the day, the minimum I have seen is 4. If they had only 2 trains running that would be a dispatch every 10 minutes! One irritating thing they do do is even f they know it's a busy day they will open on 4 then add the other 2 half an hour later which stops the system for ages, they should just start with all the trains on the system.

I think it once was capable of running 8 (I may be wrong) but think due to H&S and lack of trains it tends to run a max of 6 now I think. But someone might know better.

Fireworks this year, on the Sunday. At the time I arrived there was only the Jelly Bean and Explorer trains going round. I know this because I stood watching them come and go over and over again while waiting in the huge queue.

 

[djtruefitt]

Quite often when I have turned up this season for ERT, you are stood waiting for 20 minutes in the monorail station while to add another train to the system, its really annoying when the monorail only opened 20 or so minutes before they decide to add another train.

Should just open on all trains for the majority of the season, then take them off when not needed. Nothing like putting people in a bad mood before they have even entered the park!

 

[Dave]

it can't be denied that the current monorail is really very slow by park transportation standards.

It would help if they ran it properly like they used to prior to Merlin's greedy mits. It only ever seems to run 2 trains on the busiest periods these days. Once upon a time I remember the queues in the stations would be constantly moving and trains arriving only seconds after the previous one left.

It's capable of over 5000 people per hour isn't it?

It never runs 2 trains at the beginning and end of the day, the minimum I have seen is 4. If they had only 2 trains running that would be a dispatch every 10 minutes! One irritating thing they do do is even f they know it's a busy day they will open on 4 then add the other 2 half an hour later which stops the system for ages, they should just start with all the trains on the system.

I think it once was capable of running 8 (I may be wrong) but think due to H&S and lack of trains it tends to run a max of 6 now I think. But someone might know better.

Fireworks this year, on the Sunday. At the time I arrived there was only the Jelly Bean and Explorer trains going round. I know this because I stood watching them come and go over and over again while waiting in the huge queue.

Only time I have seen it on 2 trains is in the middle of the day for a couple of hours, sometimes during ERT too. Certainly isn't the norm.

 

[tryst]

This is cross-posted from a similar discussion on TT and is a summary of the junction and road improvements that were mentioned earlier in this thread.

I was doing some research on who owned the land around the Towers and came across some PDFs from Staffs CC on improvements to the roads around AT. http://www.staffordshire.gov.uk/transport/transportplanning/localtransportplan/localpinchpointfund.aspx

It's not a bypass, but three improvements to the roads between the A50 and AT:

1. JCB and Rochester village junction improvements - The junctions of Station Road and High Street to the B5030 (on the SE side of the JCB site) will be converted to roundabouts and have improvements to signage and lighting. Estimated completion date is May 2014. http://goo.gl/maps/8jFA4
2. Denstone junction improvement - the Denstone junction between the B5031 and B5032 will have its radius significantly increased to make it easier to negotiate, as well as being converted to a roundabout. Estimated completion date is March 2015. http://goo.gl/maps/AZeBl
3. Safety and traffic management measures - There's quite a lot under this heading. (a) The council, with AT, will figure out the best route between the A50 and AT for the various types of vehicles, then put up some decent signage. (b) Improvements to pedestrian facilities in Alton village (read new crossings and speed bumps). (c) General safety and signing improvements, focusing on the junction of the B5032, Saltersford Lane and Uttoxter Road (outside the Blacksmith's Arms in Alton) http://goo.gl/maps/qOPxV, vehicle activated signs and speed indicators along Uttoxter Road, and non-descript safety measures at the main entrance of AT http://goo.gl/maps/odiQo. Expected completion date is November 2015.

The point I raised about this was given that central government and Staffs CC are spending a lot of money on this scheme, it's unlikely that we will see any kind of bypass for Alton Village or an East Entrance any time soon; however, these works should make getting to/from AT a lot easier and maybe a little safer.

 

[BigDave]

They need to spend more money of improving public transport. The current system does not work, with buses arriving at daft times and often over crowded.

 

[DiogoJ42]

I think it's a safe bet to say that Merlin's attitude is "how people get to our parks is not our problem, we just want their money once they get inside". And to some degree, (it pains me to say this) they have a point.

However, I still think that investing in an EP style bypass would be for the common good of both the park and Alton village. Hell, I'm sure even JCB would be better off without all the cars on the local roads getting in the way of their diggers.

 

[josht]

It should happen to strengthen the park, as they should build another hotel, woodie and improving the park they have to spend millions to get the park back up to scratch