The Brexit Thread

[Alsty]

That pesky EU imposing their laws on us. At least now Truss is able to roll back worker protections. I guess it's a Brexit benefit if you run an unscrupulous corporation.

Liz Truss is preparing to shake up Britain’s post-Brexit employment rights as part of her agenda to kickstart the economy before the next election.

...

Among reforms due to be examined are changes to the 48-hour working week, part of the EU working time directive implemented in the UK in 1998. It prevents workers from being discriminated against or sacked if they refuse to work over 48 hours a week.

The new government is also understood to want to look at rules on taking breaks and calculating holiday pay that guarantees most people four weeks’ holiday a year plus bank holidays.

The Times & The Sunday Times

News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times

www.thetimes.co.uk

 

[Jonathan]

"BuT pRoJeCt FeAr!!!!1!1!!!!"

 

[WillPS]

Very much doubt the government would do such a thing until after a general election had been decisively won.

 

[Benzin]

Very much doubt the government would do such a thing until after a general election had been decisively won.

Would they win a general election with a majority with those sort of ideas as part of the manifesto?

The centre ground would be difficult to win over if you're telling them a vote means having less worker rights. Would work in the usual Conservative sectors because "the young don't work hard enough anymore".

Would only really affect those on zero hour contracts, since those are the type of companies who love to take advantage of pushing worker rights to their limit.

 

[WillPS]

Would they win a general election with a majority with those sort of ideas as part of the manifesto?

The centre ground would be difficult to win over if you're telling them a vote means having less worker rights. Would work in the usual Conservative sectors because "the young don't work hard enough anymore".

Would only really affect those on zero hour contracts, since those are the type of companies who love to take advantage of pushing worker rights to their limit.

I think all that would be on the manifesto is getting rid of EU derived laws by [insert ridiculously close date here].

 

[BigT]

I’ve just returned from a holiday in Portugal and confused why we go through passport control both in and out of the euro zone but only when coming back to the UK?
Shouldn’t the UK also be checking when people leave the country especially EU residents as they also are supposed to only be in the UK 90 days in 180?
Also by using the Egates in the UK, EU nationals are not getting their passports stamped, is this the UK being slack or this an example of the EU being pedantic just to punish the UK for leaving again?

 

[Craig]

I’ve just returned from a holiday in Portugal and confused why we go through passport control both in and out of the euro zone but only when coming back to the UK?
Shouldn’t the UK also be checking when people leave the country especially EU residents as they also are supposed to only be in the UK 90 days in 180?
Also by using the Egates in the UK, EU nationals are not getting their passports stamped, is this the UK being slack or this an example of the EU being pedantic just to punish the UK for leaving again?

The UK isn't being slack, everyone is "stamped" in and out of the UK, however their visit is logged electronically via the use of the e-gates.

The issue with the EU is that they need a Schengen wide system which shares entry/exit data amongst all member states so that the durations can be accurately monitored. Whilst the new Schengen wide system called EES is developed that isn't possible, so physical stamping is the fallback. It was originally scheduled for 2020, but is now not due until May 2023. It also requires a facial and fingerprint scan in the same way that the US does. It will work in conjunction with ETIAS, which is the equivalent of the ESTA visa waiver used in the US. The plans were said to be heavily supported by the UK, presumably because the tighter controls would have been seen as a plus for having tighter border controls pre EU referendum.

When it comes in, and if we have no change to our entry procedures into the Schengen area it's going to be nothing short of an absolute nightmare. Especially for those travelling via ferry or Eurotunnel, as there's just no space to adequately process each person in each vehicle at present. It was already one of the reasons that the reopening of Ashford to Eurostar traffic has been delayed too, as the company waits to see what impact EES has once it (eventually) launches.

 

[Alsty]

Also by using the Egates in the UK, EU nationals are not getting their passports stamped, is this the UK being slack or this an example of the EU being pedantic just to punish the UK for leaving again?

By "punish" you mean enforce the rules that apply to all countries outside of the EU/Shengen area, of which the UK is now one of them? They're not treating us any differently to citizens of other third countries.

 

[BigT]

The UK isn't being slack, everyone is "stamped" in and out of the UK, however their visit is logged electronically via the use of the e-gates.

The issue with the EU is that they need a Schengen wide system which shares entry/exit data amongst all member states so that the durations can be accurately monitored. Whilst the new Schengen wide system called EES is developed that isn't possible, so physical stamping is the fallback. It was originally scheduled for 2020, but is now not due until May 2023. It also requires a facial and fingerprint scan in the same way that the US does. It will work in conjunction with ETIAS, which is the equivalent of the ESTA visa waiver used in the US. The plans were said to be heavily supported by the UK, presumably because the tighter controls would have been seen as a plus for having tighter border controls pre EU referendum.

When it comes in, and if we have no change to our entry procedures into the Schengen area it's going to be nothing short of an absolute nightmare. Especially for those travelling via ferry or Eurotunnel, as there's just no space to adequately process each person in each vehicle at present. It was already one of the reasons that the reopening of Ashford to Eurostar traffic has been delayed too, as the company waits to see what impact EES has once it (eventually) launches.

That’s all well and good but you don’t pass through passport control going out of the UK so how is your passport check electronically?

By "punish" you mean enforce the rules that apply to all countries outside of the EU/Shengen area, of which the UK is now one of them? They're not treating us any differently to citizens of other third countries.

But as stated above EU citizens don’t get treated like that coming into the UK so it’s not the same.
All well and good if EU citizens are made to wait in the rest of the world queue like the UK is now going into the EU but that’s not the case.

I for one am glad we are bigger than this tit for tat rubbish and we are carrying on treating our EU friends as that and not some two headed lepper that the EU seems insistent on treating the UK as.

 

[tayspru]

Brexit voters made an active choice to be treated as a third country and not part of the EU. Why are people still shocked that we’re being treated as a third country?

 

[Craig]

That’s all well and good but you don’t pass through passport control going out of the UK so how is your passport check electronically?

It's done via advanced passenger information when you check in for your flight. That information is logged onto a system called Semaphore which checks Home Office databases for immigration status, criminal records etc. If advanced passenger information isn't taken, then you'll have your passport manually scanned (Eurostar do this at St Pancras for example) when you check in.

You need to go through passport control when leaving the Schengen area because such an electronic system doesn't exist yet. In time, that'll perhaps be done by e-gates, but for the time being it'll be a manual stamp. And again, it's not new. It's the same manual stamping process that has been in place for every single country that is not part of the European Union/Schengen area for years. It's not tit-for-tat, it's exactly what we knew would happen.

 

[IanB]

So with the stamps, does that mean the board control need to manually work out how long you have been in, and if your allowed in. The more stamps you have in your passport, in theory, the longer it will take boarder control to work out if your allowed in or not?

 

[WillPS]

So with the stamps, does that mean the board control need to manually work out how long you have been in, and if your allowed in. The more stamps you have in your passport, in theory, the longer it will take boarder control to work out if your allowed in or not?

Yes they can, but in practice they usually don't while you're travelling as a tourist. It's a different story if you have right to remain however as they go back several years to determine your eligibility is still valid - I have an Australian friend with right-to-remain and she has to take 2 previous expired passports to prove her award in the 90s is still valid.

 

[jon81uk]

That’s all well and good but you don’t pass through passport control going out of the UK so how is your passport check electronically?

As Craig posted above its all done as part of check-in. The UK forces the airlines to do the work for them, hence why you don't need to show your passport as much when leaving the UK compared to other countries. This isn't a brexit thing, the UK made the airlines do the work for them a long time back.

 

[BigT]

As Craig posted above its all done as part of check-in. The UK forces the airlines to do the work for them, hence why you don't need to show your passport as much when leaving the UK compared to other countries. This isn't a brexit thing, the UK made the airlines do the work for them a long time back.

But I don’t trust it like a nice big stamp and a burly police officer.
Stayed more than 90 days sir? Follow me…..

 

[jon81uk]

But I don’t trust it like a nice big stamp and a burly police officer.
Stayed more than 90 days sir? Follow me…..

The stamp would be on the way into the country not out of it wouldn’t it?
Also border force officials are not police officers.

 

[BigT]

The stamp would be on the way into the country not out of it wouldn’t it?
Also border force officials are not police officers.

They stamp on the way in and out of Schengen, US and most other countries I have visited.
Also police when you go in and out of the above, that’s my point, we are a soft touch.

 

[jon81uk]

They stamp on the way in and out of Schengen, US and most other countries I have visited.
Also police when you go in and out of the above, that’s my point, we are a soft touch.

Why does an electronic record make it any more or less of a soft touch? If anything electronic is more secure as less risk of forgery.
Also in the US border officials are federal enforcement not police, same as UK.

 

[AstroDan]

Brexit Benefit:

Remove the cap on bankers bonuses.



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[Alsty]

Well they did talk about cutting EU red tape during the referendum, they just didn't tell us it'd be lifting the cap on banker bonuses, reducing worker rights and making things less safe. Wonder why they kept those "benefits" quiet?

Never trust a politician when they say deregulation.