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The Brexit Thread

Dave said:
Labour were explicit in their manifesto on this agreement with the EU, pages 117 and 118 of it.

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Specifically:
With Labour, Britain will stay outside of the EU. But to seize the opportunities ahead, we must make Brexit work. We will reset the relationship and seek to deepen ties with our European friends,
neighbours and allies. That does not mean reopening the divisions of the past. There will be no return to the single market, the customs union, or freedom of movement.

Instead, Labour will work to improve the UK’s trade and investment relationship with the EU, by tearing down unnecessary barriers to trade. We will seek to negotiate a veterinary agreement to prevent unnecessary border checks and help tackle the cost of food; help our touring artists; and secure a mutual recognition agreement for professional qualifications to help open up markets for UK service exporters.

Labour will seek an ambitious new UK-EU security pact to strengthen co-operation on the threats we face. We will rebuild relationships with key European allies, including France and Germany, through
increased defence and security co-operation. We will seek new bilateral agreements and closer working with Joint Expeditionary Force partners. This will strengthen NATO and keep Britain safe.
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If we'd made such a deal with any non-EU country it would be hailed by the right wing press as a huge Brexit benefit and a win for the UK.

But because this is a deal with the EU, our closest neighbours and biggest trading partner, it is seen by them as a betrayal of Brexit that is going to doom the country.

It appears now that most Brexiteers would not allow for any relationships with the EU at all, which is quite frankly bonkers.

Hardly surprising that most industry is in favour of this deal!
 
Brexit gammons are the same as Trump supporters. It doesn't matter what you say to them or what data they see......they won't admit defeat. You will never convince them they were wrong. The twist they put on it is that Brexit was just delivered the wrong way.
 
Dave said:
Vote leave said we would be staying in the customs union so it could be argued this is only nudging us back to the place promised by vote leave during the referendum.

Plus we didn’t get a referendum on the India or US trade deals so why should we on this? We haven’t joined the EU, we have renegotiated out trading relationship with it.

Personally don’t think this has gone far enough, we have lost 4% of our GDP to Brexit and gained absolutely nothing in return, I would very much be up for rejoining the customs union, and polls suggest the majority of the country are as well.

Labour were explicit in their manifesto on this agreement with the EU, pages 117 and 118 of it.

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That's fair enough then. I accept various members points graciously. I was previously not aware of this. That does change my opinion.

Edit - Fair play for trawling through all that too.
 
One of the worst things about all this is the predictable nature of it. In my friend circle and wider family circle there were people who openly said they were going to vote Leave and did. I said fair enough and everyone is entitled to their own view. When i asked them why it was pretty unanimous. Uncontrolled immigration.

I told each and everyone of them that all you're going to do is tell the Poles and other Europeans to go home and open our doors to immigrants from further afield. I even said that immigration levels into the UK may even rise off the back off leaving and they laughed in my face and said that would just not be possible.

Low and behold it's exactly what's happened. Not once have I ever had an apology or you were right remark from any of them. :(

Pandora's box should have never been opened. Don't ask 60m people to vote on something they quite clearly didn't understand.
 
Just as Boris gambled on Brexit to get elected, I think a referendum on rejoining the EU will be Starmers final move in the next election campaign - vote Labour and have a say on the future of the U.K. and EU

It would be foolish to have a referendum before then
 
I must say, I’ve generally been quite impressed with Keir Starmer’s approach to foreign policy. The Labour government seems to be very pragmatic and genuinely trying to get things done and get things moving. In the 10 months since Starmer was elected, we’ve seen this “Brexit reset” deal, a deal with the US to avoid larger tariffs, and some real shows of strength and excellent leadership on Ukraine as well. In the grand scheme of things, I would describe foreign policy as a real strength of the Starmer administration.

I’ll concede that I have never supported Brexit and have always thought it to be a dreadful idea… but this does seem like Labour are trying to make the best of the circumstances without taking us back into the EU. They’re not “taking us back into the EU by stealth” as some hardcore Brexiteers like to claim, but they are fostering a good relationship with the EU, which will hopefully undo or at very least mitigate some of the economic consequences of Brexit. Returning Britain into the EU or even having another referendum on the issue are absolute no gos at any point in the foreseeable future, I feel, so I’m happy with anything that aims to make the best of Brexit.

It seems as though some ardent Leave supporters don’t want us to have any relationship with the EU at all, which just isn’t practical, in my view. If I’m being honest, it does seem as though some Leave supporters (not all) want us to diverge from the EU just because we can rather than because it’s in Britain’s best interests. Remember that “bonfire of EU laws” under the last Tory government, for example; many of those were perfectly good laws, but the government insisted that we needed to draft our own versions just to be different. I don’t get that at all; surely we want what’s in Britain’s best interests, whether it’s aligned with the EU or not?
 
tayspru said:
Just as Boris gambled on Brexit to get elected, I think a referendum on rejoining the EU will be Starmers final move in the next election campaign - vote Labour and have a say on the future of the U.K. and EU

It would be foolish to have a referendum before then
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Great shout, not sure if it'd happen, but it is ultimately how the Tories won the 2015 election so not impossible. Labour has ground to take form Reform though so selling a return to the EU would lose many voters. Unless of course it can be pitched on a method o reducing immigration given that the Tories trebled it post-Brexit.
 
To those saying this deal is a fundamental change and a betrayal etc, this deal is simply a tinkering of what we already have, which was planned by both sides when the initial deal was signed. There was always going to be changes to the deal in 2025 as they realised what worked, what didn't. The fishing deal is literally the same, but just extended, and frankly the EU countries economies rely far more on fishing than us, with it being a tiny amount compared to what has been agreeded to a sensible, practical compromise made sense here. The only real changes here, is less paperwork, less queue's at borders and security and defence sharing (which I don't think even the most ardent brexit supports think we shouldn't work together on, especially at the moment).
Personally I hope this deal is just the start of a renewed relationship, which eventually ends up with us near enough to being members that people would just vote to be full member's, however objectively this isn't that, and if it is meant to be the beginning of that it's a poor attempt.

Separately do I think we will rejoin in my lifetime?
I have no idea, I think my generation are generally quite annoyed, and see older voters consistently voting in there own interest without thinking of the future generations (Likely lead to the Greens rise amount young voters) which leads me to say possibly. I could see a time when we do, if a deal can be struck that allows us to keep the Pound. More likely a new version of the the EFTA, or EEA, is created just the the UK to begin with, which works similarly. However this wouldn't give us a say on EU regulations. So honestly, I think one day we might, however it won't be yet, the country isn't ready for that, and no politician is going to risk it yet.
Our application to become members could easily be fast-tracked, with the only major sticking point being the EU requirement to eventually adopt the Euro, which I think British voters, would instantly reject.
 
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