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The Smiler - General Discussion

Does anyone else feel sad reading that.

I wish someone from Merlin would explain why they did not go with lapbars, as that appears to be the standard. I am also going to make an assumption as lapbars are the standard, the 1200 guests per hour figure is going to be lower for the Smiler, as the leaflet clearly states the lapbars reduce loading time.

Ian
 
IanB said:
Does anyone else feel sad reading that.

I wish someone from Merlin would explain why they did not go with lapbars, as that appears to be the standard. I am also going to make an assumption as lapbars are the standard, the 1200 guests per hour figure is going to be lower for the Smiler, as the leaflet clearly states the lapbars reduce loading time.

Ian
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Don't know how true it is but there was decent rumour that H&S exec wasn't happy with lap-bars.
 
Dave said:
Don't know how true it is but there was decent rumour that H&S exec wasn't happy with lap-bars.
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And yet the company selling it have it as the standard. It would be nice to get an official explanation from someone, as the restraints ruin this ride.

I wonder if H&S wanted more testing to be carried out, and because of the extended testing they required, and it running late, they choose to go for OTHR, to get it open sooner rather than later.

I guess at the end of the day it does not matter what the reason for it is, it has them, and we are going to have to live with it. Hopefully someone will build a clone, and get lap bars instead.

Ian
 
But if Dave's rumour were true - he is not referring to on park H&S but the Government led H&S executive (I think). They may well have had no choice.
 
Lap bars clearly would have been safe, otherwise they would not be an option for the ride. This is no valid reason for The Smiler not having lap bars. If H&S, whether that be internal or external, deemed them 'not safe' or something similar then it is yet another case of H&S gone mad. Heck, why not give Thirteen, Sonic and RMT over the shoulder restraints as well!

It's a real pity, I think The Smiler would have been so much better with lap bars. I'm looking forward to riding Karacho at Tripsdrill in April to see what a Gerst multi-looper is like with lap bars.

:)
 
Scott, how can H&S say no to something? This design looks a bit dangerous, you can not build it?

They might of said, your not doing it unless you do this, this, and this to prove its safe, which Merlin did not want to waste time and money going through.

Knowing Dave's and the teams contacts, I am assuming this rumour has come from someone senior at Towers, so there probably is some truth to it, but I doubt very much H&S stopped Towers.

Fair enough, if the lap bars had been tested, and the dummy's were getting thrown off the ride, and all over the place, but for it to have not even be tested in the UK, and for it to be the manufactures standard choice of restraint, I do not believe that H&S stopped Towers from using Lap bars.

Until the source of the rumours is made public, or Merlin/Towers/Gerstlauer make a public statement the real reason will never be fully known, and it is just fun for us to speculate about what the real reason was :)

Ian
 
The only feasible and legitimate reason I can see for The Smiler having OTSR's is due to the compact nature of the track and support structure. My theory for this is due to the fact that OTSR's restrict the angle of pivot you can have from the waist up to the upper torso. With lapbars this portion of the body is free to pivot as much as physically possible so you could easily lean to the side with arms outstretched to reach a considerable size clearance envelope. However, due to design of OTSR's, the upper body can only pivot so much until you come into contact with the OTSR's therefore reducing the size of the clearance envelope to the side of the ride vehicle. If the support structure was designed with OTSR's in mind then lap bars would not be possible.

However, I see no reason why the support structure could not have been designed with lapbars in mind. Who truly knows why.
 
Why would the government get involved with a roller coaster in a theme park? Not that I'm doubting the rumour. Although it's not like there are no lap bar rides in the entire world - or that roller coasters do not have fail safes either.

If true it seems like someone with no actual knowledge of the industry has given them no choice but to stick to one thing. Which is ludicrous. Maybe said H&S person just wanted to ignore the facts of lap bar coasters existing and multiple fail safes on modern day coasters. You're more likely to die on the car journey up to Towers...
 
I have seen this before, but indeed, the more you read it the more it saddens me.

As I have kept in my sig, I was CONVINCED it was going to have lap bars as everything pointed towards it from early marketing. Having been given quite a lot of grief about being wrong, it appears that in fact, the default for this coaster IS INDEED lap bars! So Towers for whatever reason went out of their way to add OTSR as a modification available upon request.

Imagine dropping out of the barrel roll and instead of stopping for the incessant, loud and irritating laughter before the lift hill, it LSM'd you UP the lift hill with lap bars?

I'd have pushed for lap bars.

ALSO, they have automatic ones too increasing throughput still further. Imagine The Smiler with a rolling platform?

The ONLY thing I can think of, and it really is the ONLY thing, is would the lap bars affect the ability to ride of those with disability? To be fair to Alton, they're pretty decent with that, and from my recollection Europa does not permit those who are ambulant restricted to ride due to German regulations?

Could this be why?

It seems a lot maybe, but for an investment meant to last potentially TWO DECADES would an extra couple of million to really make this a truly world class attraction been too much?

If you're Merlin, then yes.
 
If it came from the HSE, then G Force would be illegal. It must have been a deliberate choice from Towers. I think it's because the people running the park don't actually like riding coasters (as has been admitted in the past). They think woodies are "unsafe". They think lap restraints are "unsafe". And they assume that the public feels the same way, nomatter how much the evidence says otherwise.

But seriously guys, can we stop calling them lap bars? It doesn't help our case arguing for them, when the term makes them sound like a simple old style thing as found on the RMT.
 
DiogoJ42 said:
But seriously guys, can we stop calling them lap bars? It doesn't help our case arguing for them, when the term makes them sound like a simple old style thing as found on the RMT.
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Sorry dude, T-Lap Bars.

Better ;)

;D
 
DiogoJ42 said:
If it came from the HSE, then G Force would be illegal. It must have been a deliberate choice from Towers. I think it's because the people running the park don't actually like riding coasters (as has been admitted in the past). They think woodies are "unsafe". They think lap restraints are "unsafe". And they assume that the public feels the same way, nomatter how much the evidence says otherwise.

But seriously guys, can we stop calling them lap bars? It doesn't help our case arguing for them, when the term makes them sound like a simple old style thing as found on the RMT.
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I think there is a wider general perception that a looping coaster without shoulder restraints is less safe. There has also been a number of accidents on (mainly Intamin) rides (usually down to guest issues or poor ride staff checks) that has put Merlin off lapbar only.
 
I think there is some truth in the rumour, and to cut corners, and save money, it was cheaper to have OTRS fitted, than stick with the T-Lap Bars (Does that really sound any better, I am not sure) and go through a more time consuming and costly testing process.

It is clear from the toilet block fiasco corners have been cut (literally :p) so I don't think its unreasonable to assume that getting OTRS signed off was significantly cheaper (due to Saw: The Ride already been proven safe) than getting a untested, and untried T-Lap Bar signed off which was untested in the UK.

The only thing that is surprising is that, oh wait, I was going to say it was surprising they did not go for something that would reduce the queue time, but I guess that would of meant less people buying fast passes, less people buying food/drinks in the queue line, and a better customer experience.

I am sure Diago will agree, but as far as conspiracy theories go, Merlin getting OTRS instead of T-Lap Bars to increase queuing times, and therefore increase up-selling opportunities is almost 99% likely to be true :p

Ian
 
It's a culture thing. B&Ms don't come with seat belts as standard but Alton Towers request them fitted for 'guest comfort', ie reassurance that the restraints are safe. The same principal was obviously applied to The Smiler, although we all know that lap bars would have been safe
 
Of course most of us here would have preferred 'T' Lap Restraints, but I do think there is some justification to Towers' way of thinking. Most people who I speak to at work know of my obsession with Rollercoasters & Alton, but I've heard many times how people didn't like thunder-looper because it 'only had a bar holding you whilst upside down', or when I tell them about the cross valley project, how they wouldn't have ridden than because wooden coasters are/feel unsafe. Even when I explain about the new lap 'bars' or the modern woodies, they still have the same opinion.

Maybe its a UK thing, maybe its the GP's perceptions over here, hopefully someone in the UK takes the plunge to prove otherwise, but can you really imagine that being M£rlin? Me neither.

What would be ideal is paramount open that new park in Kent and ALL of the coasters have 'T' lap restraints :D
 
TheMan said:
WHAT? Well, I never knew that!
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Get out, you're not a true Towers enthusiast. :p joking of course

The seatbelts serve literally no purpose to the trains. They are there just for show!
 
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