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The Smiler Incident - What Happened

I must be the only person here who sees the system worked, the right services where contacted, the right help given, the best outcome for the passengers (medically) happened...

The HSE haven't said there would of been a different outcome if the call went in quicker ? Have they even said the call could of been made quicker ? They would understand ( you would hope) a call saying a roller coaster has crashed isn't useful at all.
 
RoyJess said:
Would you still leave dialling 999 to another person if you had just witness a loved one or close family member/friend in the crash?
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Much harder to answer that than it should have been. To be honest, I can't answer, I wasn't there. I'm lucky enough to have never been in a situation where I feel the need to call 999. I'd like to think that I would have a better idea of what was going on as opposed to a first time visitor, but in reality I'd probably still be completely clueless. As most people would, I'd assume that towers were doing something about it. I'd also be shocked that I've just witnessed the crash. Thinking about it, I'd probably ask the gate staff what was going on. I'm aware that they would have no idea what was happening, but it's what I'd do.

So, no answer I'm afraid. If I saw a close family member or friend hurt in another environment, then no question, I'd call, but without being in the situation, I can't make a judgment.



And to people saying that you should always call (not aiming this at anyone, it is the best thing to do), it's not always as simple as just calling. Like I said before, I hate talking to people don't know, especially over the phone. The thought of calling 999 terrifies me, no matter the situation. One of my friends once tried to help someone who fell down stairs, and just got a load of abuse. Identifying the right time to do anything like that is vital, no one wants to call for nothing, some people are just more concerned about that.
 
I've called 999 many times. Sometimes it has to be done, even if you don't like taking on the phone. Sometimes I think France's "good Samaritan" law has the right idea.
 
Karl said:
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I think in the end its getting things into perspective that keeps me riding... 1 accident out of 3,000,000 rides on the Smiler... How many accidents out of all the rides in the history of Alton Towers ? How many accidents around the world out of all the billions of rides done...

The chances of being involved in a accident at a Theme Park are so slim its not even worth thinking about. Should the worse happen... Well I personally think the onsite AT team and the emergency services did a pretty amazing job. All things being equal the outcome should of probably been a lot worse for those kids :( The amazing medical care saved their lives.

This keeps me going.
 
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I believe it's along the lines of "if you see something happening or someone in need of help, you have a duty to stop and help them. If not, you can be prosecuted for negligence" This is why you need a fire extinguisher in your car... not just for if YOU are on fire, but you are supposed to stop and help if someone else's car is on fire.
 
Please do not blame the general public for not calling 999. It's easy to say in hindsight. But I was there that day and, like the dozens of guests that were in the area at the time, I assumed that, as a huge multinational business, Merlin would have procedures in place to deal with the situation. Furthermore, I mistakenly assumed that the accident was not as serious as that which transpired. I went straight home after the crash and told several friends that I thought, at worst, there may have been a few broken ribs. The carriage seemed to be going quite slowly at the time.

Furthermore, as many people have said, just because a roller coaster stalls, this should not automatically lead to a collision. Although the HSE are saying that the blame lies entirely with Merlin, there is no escaping the fact that somebody made a decision to override the safety system without checking the whole length of the track. This accident had nothing to do with wind speed, lack of training or procedures but everything to do with one or more individuals in authority not doing their job.
 
You wouldn't of thought it was beyond the "engineers" to count the number of carriages... Apparently this was incredibly difficult, despite CCTV coming out showing the stalled train... CCTV or not... I suppose they defaulted to the Well if you can't see it then it must not existed line of thinking...

It amazes me only Merlin are in the dock for this and not the ones who where charged with safety on the day.... If it was the aviation industry they would be having their feet held to the coals...

I guess the chuckle brothers where running the ride that day...
 
TowerTigger said:
I must be the only person here who sees the system worked, the right services where contacted, the right help given, the best outcome for the passengers (medically) happened...

The HSE haven't said there would of been a different outcome if the call went in quicker ? Have they even said the call could of been made quicker ? They would understand ( you would hope) a call saying a roller coaster has crashed isn't useful at all.
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You seem to know a lot about the call out system. Not every one knows about the information path, MIM, Methane and Jesip.

I can see the system worked. the only question is what time was Med Services were alerted, as i wonder if they was a natural, 'oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, what do i do now, umm, where is med centre number' thing going on

There is talk about loads of managers, yes. You only need one to direct the incident. all other managers have proceeder to follow. called joint operation. And go a bit like this (general formula).

Call comes in to Medical
Medical arrives and does primary scene assessment
Medical call Major incident, with basic details, then second update with more detailed info.
Medical alerts Ambulance service, sends more medical support to site and Security/Ops
Security/ops activates medical major incident support plan. (clear access route, have follow me vehicle ready.)
Ambulance arrives and get show to area by follow me vehicle.
 
delta79 said:
You seem to know a lot about the call out system. Not every one knows about the information path, MIM, Methane and Jesip.

I can see the system worked. the only question is what time was Med Services were alerted, as i wonder if they was a natural, 'oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, what do i do now, umm, where is med centre number' thing going on

There is talk about loads of managers, yes. You only need one to direct the incident. all other managers have proceeder to follow. called joint operation. And go a bit like this (general formula).

Call comes in to Medical
Medical arrives and does primary scene assessment
Medical call Major incident, with basic details, then second update with more detailed info.
Medical alerts Ambulance service, sends more medical support to site and Security/Ops
Security/ops activates medical major incident support plan. (clear access route, have follow me vehicle ready.)
Ambulance arrives and get show to area by follow me vehicle.
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Put yourself in the shoes of a medical person at Alton Towers. Considering the size of the place.... How long do you think you could get to the Smiler, with all your equipment, make an assessment and place a detailed called to 999 with all the information they would require ?

Personally 18 mins does not seem a long time to me...

I would imagine / hope we will get to see the detailed HSE report when all this is over. Should shed more light...
 
You know all this talk of the crash being the same as 90 mph car crash (how ?? its top speed is 52mph and it hit a stationary object ) and the Skyride being called a rollercoaster during todays proceedings makes me have very late faith in this whole process....
 
TowerTigger said:
You know all this talk of the crash being the same as 90 mph car crash (how ?? its top speed is 52mph and it hit a stationary object ) and the Skyride being called a rollercoaster during todays proceedings makes me have very late faith in this whole process....
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I presume - A car is design with crumple zones to crush to adsorb an impact, where the Smiler was design to never hit another car so the Smiler was build with no crumple zones, therefor the forces experience by the riders were equivalent to experiencing a car crash at 90 MPH
 
RoyJess said:
I presume - A car is design with crumple zones to crush to adsorb an impact, where the Smiler was design to never hit another car so the Smiler was build with no crumple zones, therefor the forces experience by the riders were equivalent to experiencing a car crash at 90 MPH
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Is that a guess or is that what was said by the HSE ?

If its a guess, its probably a good shout...

Just been reading it only took Alton Towers medical team 2 mins to arrive on site after the accident happened. That is pretty impressive...

EDIT: I missed you saying presume - sorry :)
 
again... a car hitting a wall at 90mph looks like and the smiler train ...
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nothing like 90mph
 
Smilers train is a lot heavier than a car. The force of impact would have been much harder. The only area to absorb this impact would have been the floor of the train and the riders legs.

Just seen on it news that one of the engineers left the station and actually checked for a stalled train. Can't belive that. What an idiot if they actually checked and missed it, though I get the feeling it wasn't entirely accurate.
 
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