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The Trump debate, and international politics in general.

Trump is a dangerous lunatic there is no denying it. He's not fit to be President.

In saying that I'm not going to lose any sleep over the death of the Ayatollah who makes even Donald Trump seem like Santa Claus by comparison. Killed 40,000 of his own people recently merely for opposing their barbaric regime. The world is a better place without him. However the world will be a better place without an Orange man child in the most important political office in the world too.
 
rob666 said:
Oh dear.
Donald gives Israel the excuse to kick off a big war in the middle east, and we get sucked in around the edges within three days, supporting the Yanks, so our Cyprus airbase gets attacked within minutes.

Tuppence on petrol overnight, and the gulf coaster parks will get even quieter.

But scary scary times.
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Just to be clear, we did not support the U.S on this initial mission, we did not give permission for the U.S. to use our airbases for the initial attacks.

Iran then started sending drone and missiles at neighbouring countries, locations which have lots of British nationals living in, and attacked our Cyprus airbase. We then gave permission to the U.S to use our air bases to defend us and prevent more attacks on us.
 
As I said...sucked in at the edges.

And the Cyprus base was only attacked a few hours after the British gave support to the Americans, not before.


And to be clear, our powerful leader and government weren't even informed in advance of what was actually happening.

Because they were a great disappointment.

They just heard it on the news like the rest of us.
 
Its a tricky one because nobody wants another war and more bombing campaigns. Weve had enough of those in our lifetime already.

However if a leader of a nation is prepared to slaughter 40,000 of his own people for just opposing him and also continue to fund Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis then some would say he was fair game. Im personally glad he's dead anyway. The world is ever so slightly better off without him alive.

The IRGC are said to have less than 15% of the Iranian people still on side. The vast majority of the country hate them but live in fear of rising up as they know its their life on the line if they do.

Where Isreal / US have gone wrong is there doesnt seem to be much of a plan and long term thinking here. Supposedly Trump was eyeing up some of his generals to take control who were said to be more reasonable to deal with yet they were taken out in the same blast that killed the Ayatollah.

Its going to get very messy now.
 
rob666 said:
I'm not so sure it is.

Fine excuse to bomb more of the western "conspirators" with single attack nutters now...anywhere where there is a crowd.

I would personally prefer not to have Team America, World Police, led by the Psycho Donald, leading world politics through thuggery.
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They already were though. They sponsor more terrorism than any other nation in the world. Hamas, Hezbollah and Houthis are being funded by this barbaric regime.

A regime that thinks its perfectly fine to sluaghter 40,000 of it's own citizens for merely having a different view on how Iran should be ran. Can you imagine Trump killing 40,000 democrats or Starmer killing 40,000 reform voters. This is the insane reality for Iranians. The IRGC are said to have only about 15% of the nation still backing them. Most want them gone and millions celebrated the death of the Ayatollah.

I agree we need to stay out of it but I won't pretend Im not happy he's dead and many of his generals too. There will never be peace in the middle east with that regime around. Even Saudi, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE don't like them.
 
Benjsh said:
They already were though. They sponsor more terrorism than any other nation in the world. Hamas, Hezbollah and Houthis are being funded by this barbaric regime.

A regime that thinks its perfectly fine to sluaghter 40,000 of it's own citizens for merely having a different view on how Iran should be ran.
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You're viewing history through a very specific, Western centric lens.

The assertion that Iran sponsors "more terrorism than any other nation in the world" requires one to conveniently overlook the foreign policy record of the United States.

The US funded, armed and trained the Mujahideen in Afghanistan (many of whom later evolved into Al-Qaeda). They funded the Contras in Nicaragua (who committed widespread atrocities against civilians). They provided intelligence and support for the Saudis in Yemen.

One could argue that the overthrow of the democratically elected Mossadegh government in Iran in 1953, orchestrated by the CIA and MI6, was an act of state sponsored terror that directly led to the rise of the very regime you (rightly) despise.

Terrorism is often just a label applied to violence we don't like, committed by groups we aren't currently paying.
Benjsh said:
Can you imagine Trump killing 40,000 democrats
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I don't have to imagine it. Trump's own lawyers have already argued the case for it.

During the immunity hearings before the Supreme Court, Trump's legal team explicitly argued that a President ordering SEAL Team 6 to assassinate a political rival would be considered an official act and therefore immune from prosecution. Trump didn't recoil from that argument at all, he actively endorsed it.

He has repeatedly used rhetoric describing his political opponents as "the enemy within" and suggested the military should be used to handle them. He cheered on a mob that erected a gallows for his own Vice President.

I'm not suggesting the Iranian regime isn't barbaric (it absolutely is) but let's not pretend that Western leaders are morally incapable of using lethal force against their own citizens or political enemies. They just tend to use drones or "legal frameworks" to do it.
 
Benjsh said:
A regime that thinks its perfectly fine to sluaghter 40,000 of it's own citizens for merely having a different view on how Iran should be ran. Can you imagine Trump killing 40,000 democrats or Starmer killing 40,000 reform voters.
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I can quite easily imagine the leader of the campaign to 'liberate' Iran, Benjamin Netanyahu, killing a bare minimum of 70000 people, including at least 20000 children, because this is exactly what he's done over the last few years, with the financial support of the US, and the tacit approval of the UK. With the 'ceasefire' now just about holding in Gaza, Netanyahu needs yet another front to lash out on in order to kick the can of his own political downfall down the road. Every time he bombs Iran, or Lebanon, or any other country in the Middle East, his approval ratings at home briefly shoot through the roof. If the Western leaders supporting this are so keen to see the women of Iran liberated once more, as any right-minded person should be, they probably should have avoided killing 140 schoolgirls on the second day of the campaign.

The theocracy ruling Iran is no doubt brutal, despotic and beyond the pale, but regime change requires intervention, planning, and support. In this case, the US government can't even get their stories lined up - did Israel strike without warning and drag them into this, as Marco Rubio claims, or was this the carefully coordinated operation Trump suggests? It's becoming increasingly clear that there's no legal mandate for this, and almost certainly no plan for the 'day after'. Bombing a country while they are at the negotiating table, as the US and Israel are getting into the habit of lately, sets a chilling precedent that will come to bite the whole world on its collective, increasingly bruised bottom.
 
Excellent post above by @GooseOnTheLoose and echos many of my feelings in this.

When you look back in history and read between the lines, much of the unrest in countries around the world seems to stem back to the US where it served what it deemed to be in its interests at the time, then did the usual trick of turning its back in times of need, turning these parties against them (eg Afghanistan). Syria was another example - rise up against Assad they were told - twice the Americans let down the people of that country when they did rise up. Iran will be no different.

Bit like us really, I don’t even know if the US would come to our aid anymore if Russia were to attack us tomorrow. Years of promises of support etc only replaced by probable ignorance and inaction. It would certainly turn us against them should the unthinkable happen.

All Trump has done is made a martyr of the previous leader of Iran, who is now replaced by his son who will do everything in his power to ensure his father’s death will not go unpunished. Nothing will change in that country, the opposition are not in a position to challenge for power, and Trump and that warmongering dictator in Israel have opened a powder keg I don’t think very will be able to extinguish any time soon, not meeting their demands.

We are living in crazy times. If I were China I’d consider now a good time to take Taiwan, while Russia could go for it in Ukraine, or even try another western country knowing the US/NATO wouldn’t be in a position to fight back, at least not for long.
 
Plastic Person said:
I can quite easily imagine the leader of the campaign to 'liberate' Iran, Benjamin Netanyahu, killing a bare minimum of 70000 people, including at least 20000 children, because this is exactly what he's done over the last few years, with the financial support of the US, and the tacit approval of the UK. With the 'ceasefire' now just about holding in Gaza, Netanyahu needs yet another front to lash out on in order to kick the can of his own political downfall down the road. Every time he bombs Iran, or Lebanon, or any other country in the Middle East, his approval ratings at home briefly shoot through the roof. If the Western leaders supporting this are so keen to see the women of Iran liberated once more, as any right-minded person should be, they probably should have avoided killing 140 schoolgirls on the second day of the campaign.

The theocracy ruling Iran is no doubt brutal, despotic and beyond the pale, but regime change requires intervention, planning, and support. In this case, the US government can't even get their stories lined up - did Israel strike without warning and drag them into this, as Marco Rubio claims, or was this the carefully coordinated operation Trump suggests? It's becoming increasingly clear that there's no legal mandate for this, and almost certainly no plan for the 'day after'. Bombing a country while they are at the negotiating table, as the US and Israel are getting into the habit of lately, sets a chilling precedent that will come to bite the whole world on its collective, increasingly bruised bottom.
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And how many deaths do you think the IRGC have been responsible for in the middle east? We've already established they killed 40,000 of their own citizens in the last 18 months alone for merely opposing the regime. This doesn't include any of the strikes they have funded through Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis in Israel, Lebanon, Yemen etc.

Also why did Netanyahu take that course of action? There's a lack of a certain event on October 7th in that paragraph isn't there? Can you imagine what our country would do if somebody carried out an attack like that on us? We'd destroy them. I don't think there's an argument to suggest Israel didn't go too far in Gaza though. They of course did and nobody wants to see carpet bombing of civilian areas. He's ultimately targeted Hamas fighters hiding among civilians in and thousands been caught in the crosshairs. How do you fight your enemies if they don't want to fight you out in the open though? Hamas fighters using Palestinians as human shields but of course that didn't work out of them as it has in the past. You can only kick the hornets nest so many times as they say.

Is it any wonder why Israel are the way they are? Imagine living near a regime who don't think twice of slaughtering 40,000 of its own people, let alone it's enemies.

And Gaza isn't even the worst thing to happen to the Middle East / North Africa region of late either, incredibly. There's been 100,000 more deaths in Sudan than in Gaza in the same period since the Oct 7th attacks in Israel. A genocide being carried out by Muslims against Christians and funded by the UAE. The UN describes this as the worst humanitarian crisis on earth right now and far worse than what we are seeing in Gaza. Go check if you don't believe me it's all there.
Why aren't seeing 'Save Sudan' rallies and protests/flags everywhere? It doesn't fit the narrative and agenda though does it?
 
"Israel only acted due to October 7th."

"So what caused Palestine/Hamas to attack then?"

And so on.


One could say that the action of creating Israel has lead to majority of the modern day conflicts in the Middle East. Western hands have history for it after all, with the rise of the Nazi party for WW2 likely aided by the response to Germany's actions in WW1.


I hope we continue to keep at arms' length from another war America have started as a distraction technique.
 
Benjsh said:
And how many deaths do you think the IRGC have been responsible for in the middle east? We've already established they killed 40,000 of their own citizens in the last 18 months alone for merely opposing the regime. This doesn't include any of the strikes they have funded through Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis in Israel, Lebanon, Yemen etc.

Also why did Netanyahu take that course of action? There's a lack of a certain event on October 7th in that paragraph isn't there? Can you imagine what our country would do if somebody carried out an attack like that on us? We'd destroy them. I don't think there's an argument to suggest Israel didn't go too far in Gaza though. They of course did and nobody wants to see carpet bombing of civilian areas. He's ultimately targeted Hamas fighters hiding among civilians in and thousands been caught in the crosshairs. How do you fight your enemies if they don't want to fight you out in the open though? Hamas fighters using Palestinians as human shields but of course that didn't work out of them as it has in the past. You can only kick the hornets nest so many times as they say.

Is it any wonder why Israel are the way they are? Imagine living near a regime who don't think twice of slaughtering 40,000 of its own people, let alone it's enemies.

And Gaza isn't even the worst thing to happen to the Middle East / North Africa region of late either, incredibly. There's been 100,000 more deaths in Sudan than in Gaza in the same period since the Oct 7th attacks in Israel. A genocide being carried out by Muslims against Christians and funded by the UAE. The UN describes this as the worst humanitarian crisis on earth right now and far worse than what we are seeing in Gaza. Go check if you don't believe me it's all there.
Why aren't seeing 'Save Sudan' rallies and protests/flags everywhere? It doesn't fit the narrative and agenda though does it?
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You've allowed your desire to construct a narrative to completely override the geographical and theological facts of the situation in Sudan.

The conflict in Sudan is not a "genocide being carried out by Muslims against Christians".

It's a power struggle between two rival military factions: the Sudanese Armed Forces, led by Abdel Fattah al-Burhan, and the paramilitary Rapid Support Forces led by Hemedti. Both leaders are Muslim. The vast majority of the combatants on both sides are Muslim. The victims of the ethnic cleansing in Darfur (the Masalit people) are also predominantly Muslim.

Framing this as a religious crusade against Christians to suit a Western "Clash of Civilisations" narrative is factually incorrect and ignores the complex ethnic and political reality of the region.

You are absolutely correct on one point, however: the UAE is widely accused of funding and arming the RSF, fuelling this humanitarian catastrophe.

Which brings me to a point of slight confusion regarding your own position. You frequently extol the virtues of the theme parks in the UAE and the upcoming projects in Saudi Arabia. You treat these destinations as the pinnacle of the leisure industry.

If you are so morally outraged by the UAE's funding of a genocide in Sudan (and you really should be) why are you so comfortable contributing to their economy via tourism? Every Dirham spent on a fastpass at Yas Island contributes to the state revenues of the very regime you claim is funding the slaughter. You can't decry the geopolitical actions of a state in one breath and then praise their rollercoasters in the next without a certain degree of cognitive dissonance.
Benjsh said:
Can you imagine what our country would do if somebody carried out an attack like that on us? We'd destroy them.
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We don't have to imagine. The UK faced decades of bombing campaigns, targeted assassinations and terror attacks on its own soil during The Troubles. We didn't respond by carpet bombing the Falls Road or flattening Dublin. We responded with intelligence led security operations and, eventually, a political process.

The reason you see protests regarding Gaza in the UK is because the UK government is a key diplomatic ally and arms supplier to Israel. We have leverage. We are complicit. Our relationship with the warring factions in Sudan is negligible by comparison. Protests are generally directed at things the protestors believe their own government can influence.

Using the suffering of the Sudanese people merely as a "gotcha" to criticise those marching for Palestinians isn't the moral high ground you think it is.
 
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