The TS Exit Poll

[Martin]

I'm surprised how many labour votes are here considering their landslide was guaranteed, expected a few more people would have seen it as a chance to vote for someone else

 

[Tom]

People are too intelligent for that here.

 

[jon81uk]

I'm surprised how many labour votes are here considering their landslide was guaranteed, expected a few more people would have seen it as a chance to vote for someone else

For my seat not voting Labour risked the Conservatives getting in as it was looking close. In the end Labour won by around 2500 votes but voting Lib Dem felt a complete waste as they were getting so few votes.

 

[Matt.GC]

I grew up in an unofficial 'New Town' (only not a New Town because it didn't have an official government appointed management company. But in every other way, it's 100% a post war New Town like Stevenage, Milton Keynes, Harlow, etc). As a result, it went through numerous boundary changes as the population grew. Now, it's only the town itself and a few posh surrounding villages. It was safe as houses Tory heartland for decades, but the growth in the town meant that demography changed and it went Lib Dem in 1997.

The Lib Dem MP was very popular, and it became quite a safe Lib Dem seat in the 2000's. But by that time, I had moved away to a previously down on it's luck Victorian seaside town that was in the middle of a building boom (it still is to this day) that started fulfilling the same purpose as the purpose built town I grew up in. That is that it reinvented itself as a commuter town for Bristol. It also went Lib Dem in 1997, and I voted as such when I moved here to keep the Tories at bay, just like when I was back home.

Whilst my home constituency stopped building and settled as a Lib Dem stronghold until it returned to Tory hands in 2015, my new home went Tory in 2005 and they had a large majority throughout the 2010's, with the MP holding some ministerial positions. So I tactically voted Lib Dem in 2005 and 2010, then went with my true political aliegences with Labour in 2015, after the Lib Dems propped up a Tory government. Whilst the Lib Dems got destroyed here in 2015 and have never recovered, Labour became the challengers.

I held my nose whilst voting Labour in 2017 and 2019. I couldn't stand Corbyn and his politcs, and I wasn't ready to forgive the Lib Dems for hoodwinking me into voting for a Tory government, something which I feel dirty about to this day. I nearly went Green, but the local Labour candidate was a good moderate guy.

Now I'm middle aged and I feel like I've lost elections all my life. I wanted a Labour government, but had to vote Lib Dem to get it. When they stabbed me in the back, Labour became a crazed unelectable outfit that I couldn't stand. But in this election, I wanted a Labour government, I voted Labour, and I got a Labour MP! Half way through my life and I've won something! Never had a Labour MP before, and this seat has never been held by Labour ever. Now it's held by Labour with a 4000+ majority.

 

[jon81uk]

I held my nose whilst voting Labour in 2017 and 2019. I couldn't stand Corbyn and his politcs

Labour became a crazed unelectable outfit that I couldn't stand.

I see this being said a lot but what exactly made Corbyn policies (not the man himself) unelectable? The main ideas of nationally owned services (like public transport, energy and water) made a lot of sense (Starmer is also proposing a nationalised energy company) and other themes such as jobs and house building seemed in line with current ideas too, in fact the housebuilding target is being announced today. I get that overall it was more left-wing but the actual policies seemed to make sense and many of them are still going ahead in some form.

 

[Martin]

Starmer is also proposing a nationalised energy company

Unfortunately GB Energy is a PFI scheme that won't produce or sell any energy itself

 

[jon81uk]

Unfortunately GB Energy is a PFI scheme that won't produce or sell any energy itself

I thought they were co-investing in energy production?

So yes its not a national energy supplier to people but it does read like it would be closer to a national energy producer, or owner/funder of production equipment.

 

[Matt.GC]

I see this being said a lot but what exactly made Corbyn policies (not the man himself) unelectable? The main ideas of nationally owned services (like public transport, energy and water) made a lot of sense (Starmer is also proposing a nationalised energy company) and other themes such as jobs and house building seemed in line with current ideas too, in fact the housebuilding target is being announced today. I get that overall it was more left-wing but the actual policies seemed to make sense and many of them are still going ahead in some form.

If we are talking about policy, I don't completely disagree with the ones you've mentioned, and I am strongly in favour of nationalised utilities. I also think that a National Care Service is no longer a nice to have, but an absolute necessity.

But I'm more of a liberal, social democratic kind of guy, not particularly socialist. Think Charles Kennedy kind of politics. A large disagreement I've always had with Labour is they're slightly a little too authoritarian for my liking. Even Blair, someone to the right of me, carried that over from socialism with his third way politics. So Corbyn's Big State spending plans were a right turn off for me.

Do the under 25's really need free bus travel courtesy of state owned bus companies, or should they be provided with enough financial security and opportunities to pay for their own fayres? Shouldn't we focus on getting the financially out of control HS2 built cost effectively before committing to a second leg to Scotland? Tuition fees are out of control, but should the state really pay for them knowing that such a policy will mainly benefit the better off? Is the Broadband market really that broken, and is Royal Mail really that important anymore that they need taxpayers money spent on renationalisation? The state pension age doesn't need to be capped! It needs to do the opposite and rise, and do so pretty quickly, with pension age benefits becoming means tested before the whole system collapses for future generations. Does an NHS under pressure need taxpayer investment to give people like me free parking and prescriptions when I have the means to pay for both myself?

I could go on as well. Loads of other whacky stuff like banning trains operating without a guard, for no good reason other than it's what the RMT demanded. Where were the policies around attracting business investment? Not there because there was this old fashioned and deep routed socialists suspicion of private enterprises.

How would all this be paid for? The way Corbyn Labour were carrying on, you'd be forgiven for thinking that the economy was booming under the Tories, and that there was flex in the public finances for more borrowing and tax rises. I want to pay taxes for better schools, hospitals, infrastructure, and so that people less fortunate than me have a safety net and opportunities afforded to them. I couldn't care less who my Postman works for, I don't want to pay for some middle class kid's hair and beauty degree, and I don't believe I should be lounging around at 68 reading the Daily Mail with the state paying for my TV Licence and Winter Fuel Payments if I can afford them myself.

Then you have all the stuff surrounding the man himself and his cronies. The anti-Semitism, the bullying, the relaxed attitude towards national security. Corbyn and his mates Tony Benn and George Galloway never liked the European Union, yet knowing that huge swaths of the Labour heartlands voted to leave and that the country was heavily divided, he fought a Brexit election promising a second referendum! I was a member of the party when his takeover happened, and just because I didn't wake up every morning under a red flag with a hammer and sickle on it, I was branded a "Blairite", a "Scab", and a "Red Tory" by people who certainly weren't in the party before. I think Derek Hatton rejoined the party at one point, and George Galloway openly said he would if he could agree with his "close friend" on Brexit.

So yeah, I did think the stuff on housebuilding, an NCS, and nationalised utilities were good and are more relevant today than they've ever been. But this stuff didn't come from practical foresight, it came from an ideological belief that the state needed to control everything. I mainly want the state to focus on doing an at least passable job of running the services it already provides rather than getting even bigger.

Just my personal views since I was asked. That's why voting Labour in 2017 and 2019 was such a conflicting experience for me. I was very apethic to all 3 of the main parties at the time. Had the local candidate not been a good bloke, I don't know what I would have done as I don't believe in not voting. I considered a Green protest vote as a none of the above option, and my pencil actually hovered over that box for quite a while in 2019 I must admit. Although I have some reservations about Starmer's Labour, this was the easiest choice this time round though. Me and the Mrs walked to the polling station hand in hand quite excited, and there was actually quite a happy jubilant atmosphere in and around the church from other voters as well. It was nice.

 

[Matt N]

I must admit, I’m never entirely sure of what my specific political leaning actually is.

I would say I lean left-wing economically, and I would say that I lean progressive socially rather than conservative, but when you all talk about “socialist”, “social democrat”, “libertarian”, “authoritarian” and all that jazz, I get a bit confused and I’m not sure where I actually lie.

I wouldn’t say I have overly strong or entrenched political beliefs, but in terms of a few examples of things I believe that the left-wing parties commonly espouse:

• I believe in a more egalitarian tax system, with greater taxation of wealth, in order to fund stronger public services. However, I’m not sure I’d support higher taxes of income for low and middle earners, with my main thinking being headed for taxing wealth, privileges and obscenely high income (e.g. millionaires, billionaires) more highly. I’d also be supportive of closing tax loopholes such as the non-dom status.
• I believe in greater state subsidy in areas such as utilities and public transport. I am supportive of nationalisation of utilities, and I support nationalisation of railways if it is required to improve service and cut down prices. Service quality needs to improve and prices need to come down on our railways, in my view. But if this can be achieved by keeping the railways privatised, then I don’t mind them staying privatised.
• I believe in keeping the NHS free at the point of use for all, and I would even extend this to cover NHS dentistry and NHS optometry. I’ve never understood why these aren’t free at the point of use when the rest of the NHS is, as care of teeth and eyes is arguably every bit as essential as the rest of the NHS. I’m also supportive of universal free prescriptions in principle, as the cost of repeatedly buying prescriptions can really stack up over time if you have certain health conditions that require lots, but I don’t think this is a high priority at present.
• I believe in benefits such as free school meals being extended to all vulnerable children (currently, they’re apparently only available until Year 3), and I dare say I’d even be supportive of universal free school meals for all children regardless of income level in principle.
• I believe that some level of immigration is required for a functioning society, and I believe in empathy and kindness towards and acceptance of asylum seekers, who are often very vulnerable. I’m not saying that illegal immigration isn’t an issue, but I definitely don’t get as animated about immigration as the right-wing parties do. I think it’s a massively overstated issue.

In terms of a few ideas commonly espoused by left-wing parties I’m less sure on:

• A lot of far-left parties support nuclear disarmament and the dismantling of Trident, and I’m not sure I support this. It’s a lovely idea in principle, but I simply don’t think it’s practical; if we dismantle our nuclear deterrent, that doesn’t mean that other countries will necessarily follow suit. We need that nuclear deterrent around in case of attack by a rogue state, and with the current geopolitical climate and events in Ukraine and Gaza, we arguably need it now more than ever.
• I agree with the left-wing parties that investment into renewable energy is essential going forward, but some far-left parties don’t support nuclear energy, whereas I think increased investment into nuclear energy would be a good idea. It’s a clean source of energy that doesn’t rely on burning fossil fuels, and it would have far more of an ability to create energy at scale than renewables currently do.
• A lot of left-wing parties support carte blanche speed limit reductions in the name of road safety and encouraging public transport use, and I don’t. Don’t get me wrong, I think 20mph around schools, in residential side roads and in highly pedestrianised areas like town centres is the right call, but I don’t agree with the Welsh Labour and Green Party policy of reducing every 30mph road to 20mph, as some 30mph roads are designed for 30mph and simply don’t need the reduction. I disagree even more with the Green Party policy of reducing motorways to 55mph; motorways are our safest roads statistically, and for the most part, motorways are built in remote enough areas that air pollution to surrounding residents isn’t an issue. I’m all for encouraging public transport use, but I think this should be done through positively incentivising public transport rather than through disincentivising car use.
• I’m undecided on the issue of free university tuition fees, which many left-wing parties seem to support. I used to strongly support it, but I increasingly wonder whether this would lead to weaker provision in terms of courses due to less funding. I also wonder whether it would actually help disadvantaged students access university, because I gather that for many, it’s the living costs and things covered by the maintenance loan that are more of an issue. I’d be broadly supportive of the Liberal Democrat policy of replacing the maintenance loan with a grant, and I perhaps think that the amount given could be increased. Furthermore, I wonder whether free tuition fees would spur people into university for whom it might not necessarily be the best choice; having tuition fees there does at least make you think seriously about your decision to go to uni. For all his flaws, I liked Sunak’s policies around investing in apprenticeships and technical qualifications and emphasising that university may not be the right choice for everyone. However, I’d be broadly supportive of the Liberal Democrat policy of replacing the maintenance loan with a grant, and I perhaps think that the amount given could be increased.
• Despite what I said above about supporting a more egalitarian tax system, far-left parties seem to have a penchant for completely banning privileges and wealth that I’m not sure I agree with. For example, some want to completely abolish private schools, private healthcare and such, and others want to ban millionaires, have 99-100% income tax on all income above a certain amount, and have a maximum 10:1 earning gap between the highest and lowest paid employees in all companies regardless of size. I’m not averse to higher taxation for the rich and taxation of privileges like private education, but I think banning these privileges entirely removes people’s choice, and taxing wealth so highly that the earner doesn’t benefit at all from an increased salary beyond a certain point removes any incentive to work hard and progress up the career ladder.

 

[jon81uk]

If we are talking about policy, I don't completely disagree with the ones you've mentioned, and I am strongly in favour of nationalised utilities. I also think that a National Care Service is no longer a nice to have, but an absolute necessity.

But I'm more of a liberal, social democratic kind of guy, not particularly socialist. Think Charles Kennedy kind of politics. A large disagreement I've always had with Labour is they're slightly a little too authoritarian for my liking. Even Blair, someone to the right of me, carried that over from socialism with his third way politics. So Corbyn's Big State spending plans were a right turn off for me.

Do the under 25's really need free bus travel courtesy of state owned bus companies, or should they be provided with enough financial security and opportunities to pay for their own fayres? Shouldn't we focus on getting the financially out of control HS2 built cost effectively before committing to a second leg to Scotland? Tuition fees are out of control, but should the state really pay for them knowing that such a policy will mainly benefit the better off? Is the Broadband market really that broken, and is Royal Mail really that important anymore that they need taxpayers money spent on renationalisation? The state pension age doesn't need to be capped! It needs to do the opposite and rise, and do so pretty quickly, with pension age benefits becoming means tested before the whole system collapses for future generations. Does an NHS under pressure need taxpayer investment to give people like me free parking and prescriptions when I have the means to pay for both myself?

I could go on as well. Loads of other whacky stuff like banning trains operating without a guard, for no good reason other than it's what the RMT demanded. Where were the policies around attracting business investment? Not there because there was this old fashioned and deep routed socialists suspicion of private enterprises.

How would all this be paid for? The way Corbyn Labour were carrying on, you'd be forgiven for thinking that the economy was booming under the Tories, and that there was flex in the public finances for more borrowing and tax rises. I want to pay taxes for better schools, hospitals, infrastructure, and so that people less fortunate than me have a safety net and opportunities afforded to them. I couldn't care less who my Postman works for, I don't want to pay for some middle class kid's hair and beauty degree, and I don't believe I should be lounging around at 68 reading the Daily Mail with the state paying for my TV Licence and Winter Fuel Payments if I can afford them myself.

Then you have all the stuff surrounding the man himself and his cronies. The anti-Semitism, the bullying, the relaxed attitude towards national security. Corbyn and his mates Tony Benn and George Galloway never liked the European Union, yet knowing that huge swaths of the Labour heartlands voted to leave and that the country was heavily divided, he fought a Brexit election promising a second referendum! I was a member of the party when his takeover happened, and just because I didn't wake up every morning under a red flag with a hammer and sickle on it, I was branded a "Blairite", a "Scab", and a "Red Tory" by people who certainly weren't in the party before. I think Derek Hatton rejoined the party at one point, and George Galloway openly said he would if he could agree with his "close friend" on Brexit.

So yeah, I did think the stuff on housebuilding, an NCS, and nationalised utilities were good and are more relevant today than they've ever been. But this stuff didn't come from practical foresight, it came from an ideological belief that the state needed to control everything. I mainly want the state to focus on doing an at least passable job of running the services it already provides rather than getting even bigger.

Just my personal views since I was asked. That's why voting Labour in 2017 and 2019 was such a conflicting experience for me. I was very apethic to all 3 of the main parties at the time. Had the local candidate not been a good bloke, I don't know what I would have done as I don't believe in not voting. I considered a Green protest vote as a none of the above option, and my pencil actually hovered over that box for quite a while in 2019 I must admit. Although I have some reservations about Starmer's Labour, this was the easiest choice this time round though. Me and the Mrs walked to the polling station hand in hand quite excited, and there was actually quite a happy jubilant atmosphere in and around the church from other voters as well. It was nice.

Maybe only the more reasonable policies are the ones I remember then, I broadly agree that many of those things don’t need to happen, I support the current £2 bus fare but don’t think under 25s need free bus travel. Student loans are a mess, but free university tuition isn’t the answer either rather a proper graduate tax type thing (no interest charges mess).HS2 is a mess because of the NIMBYs wanting it in tunnels, if it was just built as regular railway wouldn’t be so bad but I think planning for it to go further now would be a good thing, even if it doesn’t happen for 10+ years, same as Crossrail 2 for London.

Corbyn was pro-Brexit though (even if the rest of the party wasn’t). Pretty sure it’s only the LibDems who seriously wanted a second referendum.