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The World of David Walliams: General Discussion

This is all getting very pedantic, but the capacity of the ride is determined by the number riding at any one time so not changed by preshows. The capacity of the 'attraction' I suppose could be increased by a preshow in that a greater number of people are being entertained at any one time but you could also consider it to include all the people waiting in the queue line. As a measure of anything beyond ride hardware is a bit meaningless.

What matters in terms of how many guests can enjoy the ride in a given day is the throughput, and that will be rubbish.
 
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Wickerman's preshow has occasionally seemed to be more counter productive towards numbers going through though if the batching is poor.

Certainly on some of the times I've ridden it the station has been empty awaiting guests or sometimes so full you can't actually exit the pre show room.
 
pluk said:
The capacity of the 'attraction' I suppose could be increased by a preshow in that a greater number of people are being entertained at any one time but you could also consider it to include all the people waiting in the queue line. As a measure of anything beyond ride hardware is a bit meaningless.
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Exactly, the attraction.

It's not meaningless because the purpose is to take people out of queuelines and out of crowding around the park, and more time spent in the attraction. The actual capacity of the ride can only manage that so much, sometimes it is too small.

More time in the attraction, more guest satisfaction, adds capacity in the whole park too. This is one of the basic concepts of park operations and it's different to throughput. Lots of examples in parks around the world doing this trick.
 
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OilyWater said:
Exactly, the attraction.

It's not meaningless because the purpose is to take people out of queuelines and out of crowding around the park, and more time spent in the attraction. The actual capacity of the ride can only manage that so much, sometimes it is too small.

More time in the attraction, more guest satisfaction, adds capacity in the whole park too. This is one of the basic concepts of park operations and it's different to throughput. Lots of examples in parks around the world doing this trick.
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I know the difference between capacity and throughput.
Its just semantics. Preshows don't really take people out of queue lines, they are in effect just entertaining queue lines. Yes, entertaining people is important, its the whole point of being at a theme park, and so things like preshows and queueline entertainment are important. I'm not arguing against them. But in any measure of running a park the capacity by that measure really is irrelevant and so widely open to interpretation to be meaningless.

Were people watching the first queueline video in CATCF queueing or in a preshow?
Are those before the turnstile of hex queuing or in a preshow? Maybe those after the turnstile but before the video? Or those in the other rooms before the ride?
Are people playing the Spinball queueline games part of the attraction capacity, or are they simply im the queue?
Is DBGT all one big preshow with no actual point?
The second queue after a preshow before a ride, are the people there queuing or part of your attraction capacity?

There are only two aspects of capacity that matter to the running of a park; the capacity of the lowest point which will always be the physical ride (unless there has been a serious design flaw) as along with dispatch time that will determine throughput, and the capacity of people the ride can hold from queue entrance to exit as this will contribute to the overall capacity of the park.

To bring it on topic, GG will satisfy none of these things.
 
tayspru said:
Yes but the real version isn’t outside a 1980s approximation of a Victorian shopfront that has been repainted what seems like 100 times
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Both of Towers Victorian areas, Talbot and Towers Street were vandalised by Tussauds and have never been the same since. This new Walliams world doesn't look like it's fixed that.

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pluk said:
I know the difference between capacity and throughput.
Its just semantics.
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Im only talking about what i know here. Why people so wound up about this?

Not beyond belief that parks would add preshows to increase capacity of an attraction if the ride capacity itself too small

Parks do this all the time for the reasons Ive explained. Same for getting people into restaurants, shows and more, rather than in queuelines or crowding the park.

Would make sense for Gangsta Granny to have some kind of preshow.
 
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I think they way of looking at it is if you are the first batch of guests in the morning arriving at Hex, or DBGT (both attractions with multiple rooms) if you just did the "ride" portion you would be in and out in 5-10 minutes. With the additional shows then its more like 15 minutes to experience the whole attraction. That's an extra 10 minutes those guests aren't in a queue for another attraction.
Twister at Universal was another good Hex-style example where the two pre-shows addded to make a much longer attraction instead of just walking straight into the main room. It turned a five minute show into a 15 minute one.

Things like Wickerman expand the "plot" but I agree its more like entertaining the queue rather than increasing the attraction length, but there are many other rides where the pre-show isn't just the "queue" but an integral part of the experience.

Coming back on topic, as far as we know there is not a pre-show on Gangsta Granny but I expect if there was it would be more like the old Charlie one, setting up the events in the queue more than an integral part of the attraction.
 
OilyWater said:
Im only talking from experience here. Why people so wound up about this?
Parks do this all the time for the reasons Ive explained. Same for getting people into restaurants, shows and more, rather than in queuelines or crowding the park.

Would make sense for Gangsta Granny to have some kind of preshow.
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Because it doesn't move anyone to anywhere, a preshow is just an entertaining queue. If the preshow didn't exist the number of people waiting does not change, they are just looking at something else. I absolutely get where you are coming from in that a queue time can be artificially lowered and ride/attraction time given the impression of being increased, but nothing has really changed.

Again, not saying there shouldn't be preshows here or elsewhere. They are entertaining and can add a lot to an attraction. If people don't think they aren't queuing they will enjoy their queue more, of course. But to talk about capacity in these terms of benefit to the operation of the ride or park just does not make sense, if anything any issue with the timing of a preshow and you actually harm the ride throughput.

I agree this is a little bit different on something staged as complexly as Hex, in that when the ride section is not frequently running at full capacity the series of pre shows is holding a number of guests over a longer period than if they just queued up at the doors of the vault, but that is something of a rarity and still only really relevant when it's not busy.

If you put a preshow on GG it will have a less tedious queue, improve guests overall impression, and maybe help them think the queue was worth the wait. All good things, but it would not fix the issue of the ride being small and too lower throughput for a new ride of its profile.
 
pluk said:
Because it doesn't move anyone to anywhere, a preshow is just an entertaining queue. If the preshow didn't exist the number of people waiting does not change, they are just looking at something else. I absolutely get where you are coming from in that a queue time can be artificially lowered and ride/attraction time given the impression of being increased, but nothing has really changed.
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I think it very much depends on the attraction and the nature of the pre-show.
As I said, if you are the first guests of the day, you are not rushed through the pre-show just because its only purpose is entertaining the queue, its a part of the experiance so even if there are no guests on the ride you see all the rooms/shows adding to the capacity of the attraction.

Its like adding another room to a restaurant without expanding the kitchen. The capacity is improved as more people can sit down, but the throughput isn't as the kitchen can't cook any quicker.
 
jon81uk said:
Its like adding another room to a restaurant without expanding the kitchen. The capacity is improved as more people can sit down, but the throughput isn't as the kitchen can't cook any quicker.
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Which of course a restaurant would never do as if the kitchen is at capacity they can deliver no more meals, take no more money, and the people in the extra room are simply queuing and getting hungry. They might be able to sit there with a drink so be less unhappy than waiting outside, but if what they want is food they will be disappointed until they get some food, and their wait will be the same as it would have been had that extra room not been there. The restaurant can take no extra bookings and feed no more people. The new room is surely not part of the actual restaurant if no food can be served there, you've increased the capacity of the building, not the restaurant. Nothing has been achieved.

A great example you've given of why pre-shows do not increase capacity in any meaningful way!

I don't not know what you mean, I absolutely understand more people are being entertained in some way as a result of a preshow and that can only be a good thing, but that measure of capacity has no practical use.
 
pluk said:
Which of course a restaurant would never do as if the kitchen is at capacity they can deliver no more meals, take no more money, and the people in the extra room are simply queuing and getting hungry. They might be able to sit there with a drink so be less unhappy than waiting outside, but if what they want is food they will be disappointed until they get some food, and their wait will be the same as it would have been had that extra room not been there. The restaurant can take no extra bookings and feed no more people. The new room is surely not part of the actual restaurant if no food can be served there, you've increased the capacity of the building, not the restaurant. Nothing has been achieved.
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They will get there food, it will just take longer for the kitchen to work through the orders, but yes I suppose those diners are "queuing" while being seated. If they can feed 100 people an hour and seat 150 then it will take an hour an a half for the last person to get food, but if they could only seat 100 then that person would be stood outside anyway.

pluk said:
I don't not know what you mean, I absolutely understand more people are being entertained in some way as a result of a preshow and that can only be a good thing, but that measure of capacity has no practical use.
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I think it very much depends on the attraction really. For the Hex, Derren Brown, Mr Blooms allotment, Hocus Pocus Hall and other attractions with multiple rooms I would say that every room is part of the show and therefore all those people are being entertained and are present in the attraction. the additional rooms are an integral part of the attraction rather than just being a pre-show.
There aren't many UK attractions with a true pre-show that doesn't form part of the attraction capacity, Wickerman, maybe the Walking Dead coaster. But Disney of course have loads, Dinosaur, Rock'n'Rollercoaster, Test Track 1.0.
Those don't really increase capacity and can lower throughput if guests don't come into the attraction in an even flow, but they often are important to set up the plot. Whereas Hex without the cinema room just wouldn't make sense, the attraction consists of three rooms really, none are "pre-show" and therefore I see the capacity as 78x3.
 
jon81uk said:
I think it very much depends on the attraction really.
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As I've said already, absolutely. When the focus isn't even a ride then the ride isn't the definitive factor any more. What was being discussed here though was bolting a preshow on to GG. Saying that enclosing some cattlepen, putting a video on and calling it a preshow meaningfully increases the capacity has no real meaning. The same amount of people are taken from the park into the attraction as a whole at any given time.
 
pluk said:
As I've said already, absolutely. When the focus isn't even a ride then the ride isn't the definitive factor any more. What was being discussed here though was bolting a preshow on to GG. Saying that enclosing some cattlepen, putting a video on and calling it a preshow meaningfully increases the capacity has no real meaning. The same amount of people are taken from the park into the attraction as a whole at any given time.
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I agree a video over a cattle-pen isn't a pre-show even. I sort of count it as one in Charlie and Choc factory, but a proper pre-show needs doors at either end, forcing all guests to watch the full show I think.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on how to define capacity though.
 
Where would they even put a pre show in such a small space for GG? Apologies if I've missed something but is there even a map of the queue line? Is there even an indoor section of queue line that could accommodate one?

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jon81uk said:
I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on how to define capacity though.
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Capacity can be calculated for any given parameters, I think what we disagree on is which parameters give us a capacity that is of any use to operations for the park or public.

Matt.GC said:
Where would they even put a pre show in such a small space for GG? Apologies if I've missed something but is there even a map of the queue line? Is there even an indoor section of queue line that could accommodate one?

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There isn't and they wouldn't. It was a pointless tedius conversation. Its been a long closed season.
 
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