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Thorpe Park: General Discussion

Smiley said:
Ultrasound and X-ray would 100% pick up such defects. The lift angle is indeed steep, but nothing that hasn't been done before. It would sure as hell pick up a defect that could cause a part to break in hours or days.
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no, no it wouldn't. xray and ultra sound are good for cracks, voids etc but they aren't good for many other things like they can't measure distance, they can't be used for tollerancing and quite a bit more, i'll put it this way ryan the ride mechanic, an actual ride mechanic thinks it was a problem with manufacturing, why do you think you know better? do you have any engineering experience?
the ride mechanics oppinions:

From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIQyAYP4DUE

Smiley said:
£18m cost. You might have ordered a few spares to go with it ;-) There's no new boundaries - completely tested tech and mechanics. Just poor testing and poor execution.
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may as well build a spare ride next to it!
when most the parts will last years, why should thorpe buy spares now? and what spares should they buy? is the cain sprocket going to go? well how do they know? is it the lift motor, you can have a warehouse full of spare parts but that will cost millions, for parts to just sit in a random warehouse for a long time, moat may not be required and you just threw away that money.
 
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flyingguitar said:
no, no it wouldn't. xray and ultra sound are good for cracks, voids etc but they aren't good for many other things like they can't measure distance, they can't be used for tollerancing and quite a bit more, i'll put it this way ryan the ride mechanic, an actual ride mechanic thinks it was a problem with manufacturing, why do you think you know better? do you have any engineering experience?
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It absolutely would. Ultrasound is basically "distance measuring" - tech sonar. X-ray can of course detect distance, based on the radiation that gets through the material. And give a complete 3D picture of the part.

I only gave a hypothesis. But if you want to shoot it down, please use science. A sprocket does't take 2 weeks to deliver.
 
Smiley said:
It absolutely would. Ultrasound is basically "distance measuring" - tech sonar. X-ray can of course detect distance, based on the radiation that gets through the material. And give a complete 3D picture of the part.

I only gave a hypothesis. But if you want to shoot it down, please use science. A sprocket does't take 2 weeks to deliver.
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Ultrasound doesn’t have the resolution to see the crystalline structure of a part. Neither would x-ray. Have an undergraduate degree and masters degree heavily invested in the science of both ultrasound and x-ray (though not for manufacturing).

That said I don’t think that’s the issue, based on the machines I work with on a daily basis sometimes parts from the best manufacturers fail in the initial load. I would put money on this being one of those faults and the short testing phase before opening meant that the fault didn’t manifest until opening.

But that is all speculation.
 
There's a lot of assumptions going on elsewhere.

Maybe Mack altered the design slightly in the name of costs or to be more eco-friendly?

Maybe the parts were appropriately tested and were damaged in transit to a not noticeable degree?

Anything can happen during construction that are completely unexpected. It's how the companies involve react that is far more important.
 
A slightly out of tolerance hole where it is bolted to something else would only show after constant usage for example, when it wears enough to start moving and showing. Could have gone during first test, could have lasted 10 years before going. Things happen.

I think piling on Mack and Thorpe needs to be done carefully. Both have clearly communicated, Thorpe have put info out in a timely manner (except Saturday, that was poor for those of us on the ground) and I'm not sure what anybody wants?

I'm not sure many here have dealt directly with manufacturers when things go wrong but I can promise they (almost) always bend over backwards for you and methodically work through the issues before declaring the problem solved. They don't just slap things together and shout done whilst running away unless they're a poor manufacturer.
 
Still don't buy it. You could easily spot critical defects with such techniques. Maybe not long-term fatigue, but definitely short-term. They didn't do the stress-testing, even though I think they had the time. That's what happens when bean-counters and marketeers tell engineering what to do.

It's nothing new. It's just like lessons are never learned.
 
Smiley said:
Still don't buy it. You could easily spot critical defects with such techniques. Maybe not long-term fatigue, but definitely short-term. They didn't do the stress-testing, even though I think they had the time. That's what happens when bean-counters and marketeers tell engineering what to do.

It's nothing new. It's just like lessons are never learned.
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Citation needed.
 
Can we try and stick to some sensible discussion rather than wild speculation and accusations that things were not done properly in the lead up to opening please? People have made their points and we are at risk of going round in yet more circles.

Ultimately Thorpe Park will never officially release what the problem is, no theme parks ever do. You may or may not find out at some point in the future through unofficial means. And it's a brand new ride, things go wrong, it happens. Even if we'd like it not to happen!

Thank you.
 
Smiley said:
That's what happens when bean-counters and marketeers tell engineering what to do.
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Marketing and accounting don't sign engineering projects off for use, engineering do. Marketing and accounting can pressure all they want, but unless engineering are happy that all checks have been completed to regulatory and satisfactory standards nothing is opening, or operating.
 
Benzin said:


Bit of a pointless video. Half of it spent going on about how good opening day was.
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Again that weird wording about not being able to commit to opening before the 8th.

Surely they aren't in a position to commit to any date, they are having unforeseen technical issues?

It feels like they're setting themselves up for failure, you can see on social media how people are taking the 8th/9th as a reopening date.

So if their fixes don't work, their investigations need more time, they come up against problems connected, or unconnected, to the current problem - and they push back again, they're going to **** more people off than just leaving things as indefinite for now.

People, generally, aren't actually upset that the ride isn't open, they're disappointed at most. But people are upset and angry when they book time off, pay for hotels, make plans, and then they get cancelled. Which will be the case as long as they keep pushing the 8th June as a date to keep in mind.

It just seems like they're being a bit daft with this one, I dunno.
 
Dave said:
Ultrasound doesn’t have the resolution to see the crystalline structure of a part. Neither would x-ray. Have an undergraduate degree and masters degree heavily invested in the science of both ultrasound and x-ray (though not for manufacturing).

That said I don’t think that’s the issue, based on the machines I work with on a daily basis sometimes parts from the best manufacturers fail in the initial load. I would put money on this being one of those faults and the short testing phase before opening meant that the fault didn’t manifest until opening.

But that is all speculation.
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very true, from my understanding the best way to see the crystal structure inside is to chop off a bit of the meterial and use a microscope (the electron beam type of microscopes)
Smiley said:
Still don't buy it. You could easily spot critical defects with such techniques. Maybe not long-term fatigue, but definitely short-term. They didn't do the stress-testing, even though I think they had the time. That's what happens when bean-counters and marketeers tell engineering what to do.
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easily? you're telling me it is easy to see cracks that haven't formed yet, do you know what magician this is? because they could save a tone of money by putting them in a production line and getting them to tell me what will fail or not.
The defect I was talking about is in the crystal structure of the parts something you can only see by cutting the part open and sending it to a microscope.
 
Don't see it as weird, they are looking at the task at hand and cannot see it feasibly being completed prior to 8 June. It's better than radio silence for sure.

They could harden the language a little tighter and say it "will be closed until at least 7 June".
 
GooseOnTheLoose said:
Marketing and accounting don't sign engineering projects off for use, engineering do. Marketing and accounting can pressure all they want, but unless engineering are happy that all checks have been completed to regulatory and satisfactory standards nothing is opening, or operating.
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Agree with this, Engineering (at least in our company) are way too stubborn to bow down to PM pressure...and rightly so. They know what they are doing. They have regs and processes to work to. I don't think we will completely know what has gone on here, however one thing i do know is that as much as us "Thoosies" are upset over the closure of Hyperia, the manufacturers, engineers and people involved with this project, will be hurting much more than us. Hyperia will be back, let them solve the issues.
 
I'd challenge the argument of immunity to pressure. Anyone and everyone is potentially susceptible to pressure and influence (whether direct or indirect) from their superiors. This was proven in the Smiler accident, and in countless other prosecutions. Nothing to suggest this was a factor here, but the idea that technical departments are immune to pressure is questionable. They would have had deadlines and targets like anyone else.

This is more likely to be a manufacturing defect of some kind. It can likely be 'narrowed' to either: the lift hill will not function, or something else potentially serious was identified in checks prior to opening on Saturday.
 
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