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Thorpe Park: General Discussion

Potentially they could have it open for the press event if it is only running on one train (I assume the valleyed train has been removed?). The ride wouldn't need to be running at full capacity if only a few people are riding it.
 
Got to ride it on Tuesday this week (1st Oct) it did open late that day as the app was being updated with the scarefest attractions.

Managed to get my 1st ride and damn the air time is real good. Glad I did it on Tuesday despite the torrential rain.

Left the park 90 mins early as rain and coasters tend not to mix. Saw did hurt a lot and didn't want to risk stealth with that amount of rain.

Glad I got it done as it would've irritated me to drive 140 mile to be spited on the day.

Still things happen that are out of our control
 
Secret Weapon said:
Hyperia seems to have problems whenever Thorpe Park are about to launch a big event, as the previous rollback/valley happened a few days before the celebration on 23/6, and now it has valleyed again just before Fright Nights :oops:
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Ooh I love a good conspiracy theory.... 😁 I do wonder whether they actually know what caused the valleying (temp, wind, loading) because otherwise how can they prevent it again..?

"Please keep your arms and legs in the train at all times, don't put your hands in the air as it increases drag, and no farting. Hot chocolate and sandwiches may be provided during an extended ride".
 
Poisson said:
it'll be on Mack not Merlin to sort this if they push it.
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I'm not sure what the terms of the contract are in these situations; obviously, if the ride constantly valleys then I would assume that Mack are required to fix it, but if the ride 'occasionally' fails (e.g. due to particular inclement weather conditions) then can they simply tell Merlin to modify their operating procedures? (e.g. not to operate it during bad weather, et cetera)

I know that some manufacturers (in the regular non-rollercoaster world) sign 'limit of liability' agreements in advance, so that they can only be held liable to a certain amount of money if something goes wrong with the end product.

Incidentally, I remember hearing John Wardley once say that rollercoaster manufacturers regularly fall out with theme parks, only to eventually "kiss and make up", so I wonder if this type of situation has happened before? (e.g. a manufacturer delivering a poor product and/or late and/or refusing to fix it afterwards)

I'd be interested in hearing specific examples!
 
To find Mack liable Thorpe/Merlin would have to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that someone ballsed up the design process.

It is possible the Thorpe's location and thus potentially weird weather conditions weren't considered how these might affect the stall elements. But that's pure conjecture from me putting my engineering hat on.
 
I'd assume that Mack Rides would have covered themselves legally when writing the contract by ensuring that they were absolved from having to take responsibility for certain foreseeable maintenance issues (similar to how tenants are generally not required to repay landlords for 'reasonable' wear and tear), but I am no lawyer or theme park owner and so I have no idea!

Incidentally: as Mack Rides own Europa Park, I wonder how the contract is written between the two separate entities (e.g. whether the park can sue Mack if one of their rides fails).
 
Secret Weapon said:
Incidentally: as Mack Rides own Europa Park, I wonder how the contract is written between the two separate entities (e.g. whether the park can sue Mack if one of their rides fails).
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Europa-Park GmbH & Co KG and Mack Rides GmbH & Co KG are (German) Limited Liability Partnerships, which operate similarly but differently to a more traditional Limited Company by shares. The Mack family serve as the general partners of the companies. In a limited liability partnership, you have the same limited liability protection as a limited company, but it is owned entirely by the partners (and not share holders) who all have equal weight. There is no "parent" organisation, as in the case with Merlin Entertainments (who own Alton Towers Ltd etc), because the partners in effect own both. It is them and they are it.

The Mack family are incredibly unlikely to sue themselves, even if their assets are protected by limited liability.
 
Well either Merlin haven't been following the operations/maintenance manual, or it's a design flaw. I think Mack will be on the hook for this one, at least for fixing it. Consequential loss is a different beast.

It's 2024 - computer modelling should have picked up this issue years ago. Given LHR is close, we probably have better detailed weather info than most places on earth.
 
Smiley said:
It's 2024 - computer modelling should have picked up this issue years ago.
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Entirely depends on what you're modelling, and the quality of your data. You also have to know, or at least be aware of, what it is you're looking for. I doubt they modelled for volcanic activity, meteor showers, operation during an earthquake. This isn't PlanCo, you can't just point a track design at a computer and say "run every possible track, train, wheel, weather, act of god scenario combination and make it work".
Smiley said:
Given LHR is close, we probably have better detailed weather info than most places on earth.
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It's unlikely that Heathrow, or whomever monitor the area on their behalf, are going to share their proprietary meteorological data with the theme park next door. It's unlikely that anyone would have even thought of it, or asked.
 
Secret Weapon said:
That's true, although I wondered if maybe the contract had been written to separate the two entities in case Mack ever decided to sell Europa Park in future.

Your information sheds more light on the subject, though 👍
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The entity is the legal partnership between the Mack Family. In order to sell either partnership (the one which owns the park, or the one which owns Mack Rides) they would have to create an entirely new limited company, by shares, and then transfer the assets from the partnership to the company. They would then be able to sell the newly established limited liability company to a buyer.

I'm going to really over simplify it, so I imagine the accountants are going to come for me...

Partnership: You and I decide to go into partnership over a 1L of water. You have 500ml, I have 500ml, we have them in our own separate 500ml bottles, but we jointly own 1L. In order to sell our water partnership, we have to pour it into a new 1L bottle, so that we can sell the whole thing to someone else.
 
I remember when Hyperia was launching, on Thorpe’s ride availability page it published the operating conditions for coasters, including Hyperia.

Didn’t Hyperia have the highest tolerance out of all coasters for Wind?

Surely it’s as simple as that, manufactures said it can operate in Winds up to X, if they’re operating within those parameters and it’s failing, wouldn’t that mean the obligation to fix is on Mack?
 
GooseOnTheLoose said:
This isn't PlanCo, you can't just point a track design at a computer and say "run every possible track, train, wheel, weather, act of god scenario combination and make it work".

It's unlikely that Heathrow, or whomever monitor the area on their behalf, are going to share their proprietary meteorological data with the theme park next door. It's unlikely that anyone would have even thought of it, or asked.
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First, Mack will be using CAD sw costing them millions/year. They know the forces on every piece of track, every footing/foundation, every nut and bolt. Somewhere it went amiss, possibly due to assumptions put into the model.

As for LHR (or their data acquisition partner) of course they will share the data - for a fee. It's part of their business model. Of course they would have thought about it, since LHR and CAA would have been consulted about Hyperia and have to give their approval.
 
Smiley said:
First, Mack will be using CAD sw costing them millions/year. They know the forces on every piece of track, every footing/foundation, every nut and bolt. Somewhere it went amiss, possibly due to assumptions put into the model.
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Cad probably won't cost them millions/ year

and this really isn't too unusuall, a gust of wind can catch a car at an unexpected time this isn't an uncommon thing especially for a brand new ride.
 
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