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Thorpe Park: General Discussion

Matt N said:
Interestingly, I’ve noticed that Brits seem oddly cynical about Hyperia compared to people from other countries. On here, for instance, people do seem to be very dismissive of the layout and not particularly excited for it at all, whereas excitement for it in more international circles seems to be higher.
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In the USA there already are several tall non-inverting hyper coasters with long layouts, but they maybe don't have the inversions Hyperia has. Whereas in the UK we are short on hyper coasters that don't invert and especially the UK doesn't have enough long coasters. Thats why I think UK isn't as excited, we don't have enough long coasters and Thorpe really didn't need more inversions.
 
My big fear is that the trim which simulates the splash down could absolutely kill the pacing of the last 2 hills. Think of it like the trim on Th13teen's first drop. It takes the energy out of the ride just at what should be the most exciting moment.
Hyperia is a short ride already, and can't afford to lose the pacing before the end.
I'd have rather the last 2 hills been upscaled and the ride slam into the splash down then brakes (like the rapid braking on Stealth, that's almost an element in itself).

As others have said what most people want from a UK hyper coaster is airtime and a decent ride length. Had they not opted for a trim and simply made the ride a bit longer (with low to the ground hills to maximise both airtime and building costs) very few people would be complaining.
 
Tim said:
My big fear is that the trim which simulates the splash down could absolutely kill the pacing of the last 2 hills. Think of it like the trim on Th13teen's first drop. It takes the energy out of the ride just at what should be the most exciting moment.
Hyperia is a short ride already, and can't afford to lose the pacing before the end.
I'd have rather the last 2 hills been upscaled and the ride slam into the splash down then brakes (like the rapid braking on Stealth, that's almost an element in itself).

As others have said what most people want from a UK hyper coaster is airtime and a decent ride length. Had they not opted for a trim and simply made the ride a bit longer (with low to the ground hills to maximise both airtime and building costs) very few people would be complaining.
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The thing with that trim, though, is that the elements after it are so much shorter than the elements before it. So a trim is probably needed to not make those elements pull lethal levels of g-force.

For that reason, I’m less worried about that trim than some. I reckon we’ll still be getting decent negative g-forces through those final 2 hills.
 
RicketyCricket said:
Looking at Mack's recent work, I'm not too worried about the trims. RTH was a bit of a turning point for them as it is so intense and full of strong airtime. Voltron looks to be absolutely flying on test runs so hopefully this will be the same.
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Don't forget that the first Voltron test they showed was a deliberate overspeed test, it won't be running that fast during normal operation.
 
Matt N said:
The thing with that trim, though, is that the elements after it are so much shorter than the elements before it. So a trim is probably needed to not make those elements pull lethal levels of g-force.

For that reason, I’m less worried about that trim than some. I reckon we’ll still be getting decent negative g-forces through those final 2 hills.
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You slightly misunderstand my concern.
I'm sure the last two hills are designed with the trim in mind. I certainly wouldn't want to go over them without the trim!
What I'm concerned about is loosing the feeling of coasting! It's like driving along the motorway at 70, but you suddenly approach heavy traffic and have to slow down to 60. The road might clear and you can accelerate away again, but that moment of being restrained sticks with you.
 
Tim said:
You slightly misunderstand my concern.
I'm sure the last two hills are designed with the trim in mind. I certainly wouldn't want to go over them without the trim!
What I'm concerned about is loosing the feeling of coasting! It's like driving along the motorway at 70, but you suddenly approach heavy traffic and have to slow down to 60. The road might clear and you can accelerate away again, but that moment of being restrained sticks with you.
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Ah, fair enough. I thought you were expressing concern that the final two hills would feel neutered and provide lacklustre g-forces.

I imagine it will probably feel something like the water brakes on a Dive Coaster. Each to their own, of course, but the water brakes on SheiKra didn’t overly bother me, personally. While Hyperia’s trim isn’t an actual water brake like SheiKra’s, I imagine that the principle is similar.

On a related note, I find that a good way to think about Hyperia is not as a traditional hyper coaster, but as a new-generation Dive Coaster. If you think about it, there are some similarities; both have big vertical drops, both have large inversions, both are (or can be in the case of Dive Coasters) over 200ft tall, both are short in terms of track length relative to their height. The Dive Coasters do well enough in terms of critical reception (particularly outside of enthusiast circles), and Hyperia arguably has more exciting elements and more relentless pacing than any Dive Coaster.

With this in mind, I think Hyperia becomes a lot more exciting, and the length becomes less of a concern, when you think about it in that manner rather than as a traditional hyper coaster.
 
Matt N said:
On a related note, I find that a good way to think about Hyperia is not as a traditional hyper coaster, but as a new-generation Dive Coaster. If you think about it, there are some similarities; both have big vertical drops, both have large inversions, both are (or can be in the case of Dive Coasters) over 200ft tall, both are short in terms of track length relative to their height. The Dive Coasters do well enough in terms of critical reception (particularly outside of enthusiast circles), and Hyperia arguably has more exciting elements and more relentless pacing than any Dive Coaster.

With this in mind, I think Hyperia becomes a lot more exciting, and the length becomes less of a concern, when you think about it in that manner rather than as a traditional hyper coaster.
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I understand where you are coming from with this, as it really is quite a unique coaster featuring brand new elements and a new kind of experience. But it sounds like you're viewing this from the angle of trying to actively overlook it's very short length relative to it's height and speed, something which I think will actually see compounded criticism as it ages.

I don't think many have compared it to a traditional hyper coaster at all since the layout was revealed have they? So I'm not sure of your angle here? If it's that it doesn't have long and drawn out floater airtime hills and turnarounds as a B&M or Arrow hyper, then I'm unsure as to how many people you think are going in with these expectations anyway? I'm certainly far happier we're getting some of these unique elements over a traditional hyper (although I'd take one of them too).

The problem is with how much potential is going to be wasted when you slam into that long brake run. Other than the first drop, there's nothing that this coaster does that couldn't have been done without the need to build it so high. The trims in the splashdown just smack of forecasting to run out of money after the concept was already designed. Like they designed this excellent and unique coaster, saw that the concept was too good and could not be passed up on, but just didn't have the funds to build it in full once the accountants gave it the once over.

Don't get me wrong, what's there looks absolutely superb, but if it is a hit, copies will follow and leave this looking shorter and shorter as time goes by. Some thought this about Oblivion (ironically, not me) and The Swarm (which I do) once the dust settled and more parks installed one.

It needs to keep it's pacing, every element looks superb and thus it doesn't need a super long length padded out with filler material. It just needs 2, maybe 3 well paced extra elements that are consistent with the experience of the rest of the layout to make use of all that speed gained from the height, rather than being trimmed 15-20 seconds after cresting the top of the lift hill before slamming into the final brakes a few seconds after that.
 
Hyperia Super Stan said:
First drop and airtime hill/immelmann now being installed.
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Slowly but surely yep! It looks great in person. Only saw one bit of track installed this afternoon.

My favourite photo from today..

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From: https://twitter.com/ThemeParkGuide/status/1745489962588393974
 
I would not be immediately concerned by the presence of trims on that drop out of the Immelmann.

As much as “trim” might immediately make you think of rides with very severe trim brakes, a fair few rides have trims that hardly have an effect at all. For instance, DC Rivals, a fellow Mack hyper, has a trim on its first airtime hill that hardly seems to wipe any speed off at all. No one who’s ridden DC Rivals ever seems to complain about that trim, anyhow. I believe the Flash clones have a similar one somewhere in the layout, and again, no one who’s ever ridden Flash or Hyper Coaster seems to even mention it.

My point is; a trim merely being present is not an immediate cause for concern, in my view. As much as some trim brakes are very noticeable, plenty of rides have trims on them that seemingly barely even wipe any speed off at all.
 
I wouldn't worry just yet, this is from a comment on that post:



There’s a chance those trim brackets might not actually have fins attached. If it goes too fast during testing then they might be added. Kondaa has a bracket on its first hill but has no trims
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For anyone who doesn't want to validate the odious Elon Musk by visiting his hate.com website, here is the link to the TPG article. https://themeparkguide.co.uk/news-page/Hyperia-More-Track-Installed-And-New-Shop-Takes-Shape

It's not actually made clear if the trims are related to the immelmann or the inverted stall, where there are trims already in the splash down.

Before the inevitable scramble to try and excuse them being potentially installed coming out of the immelmann, again why build it so high in the first place if you may need to whack trims all over it? Thirteen is springing to mind more and more.
 
Matt.GC said:
Before the inevitable scramble to try and excuse them being potentially installed coming out of the immelmann, again why build it so high in the first place if you may need to whack trims all over it? Thirteen is springing to mind more and more.
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It’s not necessarily about the ride being built too high for its length. Often, trims can just be in place to keep forces within a certain tolerance range under extreme conditions that might make the ride run differently (such as extreme heat).

As much as “trims” are often painted as an enemy by enthusiasts, and they can sometimes be very noticeable, they can also be a very light tap or hardly noticeable at all under average circumstances.

You raise Thirteen as an example, but I’d argue that that’s an extreme case of a noticeable trim. From what I can tell, that’s also an unusually blunt trim in that it’s either “on” or “off”; most modern trim brakes have a lot more nuance programmed into them.

An example I would raise of a ride with trims that aren’t so noticeable is DC Rivals HyperCoaster at Warner Bros Movie World, a fellow Mack hyper in Australia. As per a POV, that ride seemingly has trims at two separate points (viewable at 0:48 and 1:01 respectively), yet they hardly seem to have any impact on the ride’s pacing at all, and no one seems to complain about the ride being excessively trimmed or even mention noticeable trims:


Hyper Coaster at Land of Legends, another fellow Mack hyper in Turkey, also has trims. The ride appears to have trim brakes at three separate points (viewable at 0:50, 1:00 and 1:19, respectively), but again, they hardly seem to have any impact on the ride’s pacing. And again, no one who’s ridden Hyper Coaster seems to complain about excessive trimming or even mention noticeable trims:


Obviously we don’t know what this trim, if it even has brakes fitted to it, will be like. You could be right and it ends up being another Thirteen-style trim that everyone complains about.

Alternatively, however, this trim might not have any noticeable impact on the ride experience at all. I would argue that the Mack hypers I’ve shown above, being the same ride type as Hyperia, are a valid comparison; perhaps adding trims here and there is just something that Mack does on its hyper coasters? Looking at DC Rivals and Hyper Coaster, I’d argue that the mere presence of a trim coming out of the Immelmann does not immediately mean that Hyperia will be neutered and that the trim will suck all the fun out of the elements that come after. Neither of those two Mack hypers appear overly neutered by the presence of trims.

I’m not saying that this trim definitely won’t have an impact, but I think it’s a little too soon to be counting our chickens and saying that the ride will be ruined by it as well, particularly seeing as similar mid-layout trims on Mack’s other hyper coasters don’t seem to have that effect.
 
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