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Thorpe Park: General Discussion

Skyscraper said:
That's a great video, but I wouldn't trust him. He predicts that it will open in 2023, but given the timeline states that construction should start in late 2022, a 2024 opening is more realistic. :p:)
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While I too am predicting 2024, I don't think 2023 can necessarily be ruled out, personally. The planning permission could be granted earlier than expected, and over in the American parks, they often don't start construction until the off-season before, albeit these rides often open in summer as opposed to in March.

Based on what we've seen so far, I'd imagine that a fair proportion of the heavy lifting may have been done already prior to planning permission being granted. For instance, I'd guess that all the major tree clearance and the bulk of the Logger's removal will already have taken place, and I'd also guess that any rides they're removing may already have been disassembled along with their queues. Heck, they may possibly even have cleared the buildings, and might merely be waiting for the go ahead to construct the coaster itself!
 
I don't like to be negative, but I hate it for that adverse camber nonsense straight out of the station. Pack it in.

Overall it looks alright I suppose, which seems like some mental apathy for the height record in the UK. It just seems that everything I'd want from a hyper isn't there. A straight ahead killer drop, multiple airtime hills, and length. This is like a greatest hits of elements of other coasters they already have, just a bit bigger, but doesn't provide what they are missing.
 
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If you're disappointed in the length of this ride as well as the element choices compared to a "regular" hyper coaster, I've got a potential comparison for you that I'd say shows promise; I actually think that in many ways, Exodus is quite comparable to Goliath at Six Flags Great America.


Now I know that Goliath is an RMC woodie, a totally different kettle of fish to Exodus, a steel coaster that's looking likely to be a Mack Hyper Coaster, but I think that the two actually share many similarities with one another:

  • Both are fairly large rides; while I know Goliath is only 165ft tall with a 180ft drop, that height is still nothing to be sniffed at, in my opinion, particularly for a wooden coaster. Exodus, on the other hand, is 236ft.
  • Both lack "traditional" airtime elements in stark contrast to others of their type.
  • Both rides' layouts consist primarily of a few big, high elements strung together in a "bam, bam, bam" type pattern, with no low elements in between. (Isn't Goliath primarily the big u-turn, the dive loop, the zero-g stall and the smaller u-turn before it hits the brake run?)
  • Both rides have length cited as a key con; the main thing I always hear cited as the main drawback of SFGAm's Goliath is how "cripplingly short" it is, and similarly to Exodus, it motors at pace into a very long brake run. In fact, as a point of reference, Goliath actually has no more "main" elements than Exodus does, if not slightly less.
The reason I bring Goliath up is that in spite of its length, Goliath is often rated very highly. Many members who've been to the USA and ridden Goliath cite it as among their favourite RMCs due to how strong its pacing and individual elements are. Yes, it might not be the longest RMC on Earth, but I've heard that it really delivers in a big way on a pound-for-pound basis; the elements it has are apparently incredible!


And if you look more widely; Goliath certainly holds its own over on Captain Coaster (https://captaincoaster.com/en/coasters/goliath-six-flags-great-america)! It currently ranks #51 in the world, with a score of 94.5% (meaning an average rating of around 9.5/10, or somewhere between 4.5/5 and 5/5), and if we compare it to European coasters and UK coasters, Goliath would rank #18 in Europe and #2 in the UK; it's only 4 spots lower and less than 1% lower than Nemesis, for reference. In terms of the UK, Goliath is certainly far closer to Nemesis in rating than it is to the next highest ranked UK coaster (Icon, at #98 in the world and #28 in Europe, for reference).


So my basic point is; length and different element choices may not let this coaster down as much as some think. I know that comparing Exodus to an RMC woodie may seem like a moot point, but if the ride is anything like Goliath in how that ride is shorter and lacking in "traditional" airtime elements, but packs a huge punch on a pound-for-pound basis, then I think we could be in for a real treat here!
 
Agree with @pluk. I don't even think they need any inversions on this ride. The park has enough already. Just give us a decent hypercoaster with airtime bunny hops and I'd be more than happy.
 
Alsty said:
Agree with @pluk. I don't even think they need any inversions on this ride. The park has enough already. Just give us a decent hypercoaster with airtime bunny hops and I'd be more than happy.
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I reckon they think a coaster with no inversions would look too tame for a lot of their target audience.

You can definitely imagine teenagers looking at videos and going "Is that it? It doesn't even go upside down!"
 
ThemeParkAddict said:
I reckon they think a coaster with no inversions would look too tame for a lot of their target audience.

You can definitely imagine teenagers looking at videos and going "Is that it? It doesn't even go upside down!"
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I get what your saying and I think that's part of the reason they've gone for something with inversions but it's clearly not true. I think if you asked people what the scariest ride in the country is there answers would include The smiler and The big one. The Big One has no inversions and is the UK's tallest coaster. It's because of it's height it's seen as scary. I think a massive towering B&M hyper with massive hills would be a very scary and intimidating ride.

The reason Mack does inversions on there hyper coasters is because they can't compete with the B&M hyper for traditional hypers. I'm excited for this ride don't get me wrong but I do agree with the fact it should've been a B&M hyper with massive hills and loads of airtime. That was my dream ride for Thorpe and I am sad it's not coming true. I wouldn't have even minded if Mack would have had a go at a B&M style hyper but instead we've got a Mack Steel Curtain with less impressive inversions. I do think it'll be better than Steel Curtain and I think it will pack a punch but I don't think it will be as good as the average B&M hyper.
 
As @JAperson said, I'm not sure that the lack of inversions would necessarily have mattered in terms of marketing a B&M hyper to Thorpe's general clientele. The Big One and Stealth are loved by the public, and neither have a single inversion to their name!

However, this coaster could yet pack a decent amount of airtime; as much as it isn't primarily centred around airtime like many hoped for, some of those elements could definitely provide airtime, and strong airtime at that, if taken at the right speed!
 
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WARNING: This post ended up being longer than I expected, so I apologise in advance for its length. I also apologise if I repeat myself a bit in places; concise writing isn't my strong point...
I apologise in advance for the long ramble, but I have a potentially controversial opinion; the proposal is really growing on me quite strongly, and I have to say that after a bit of thought, a bit of hindsight and perspective, and a more detailed look at the layout, I'm now really quite impressed with it and in genuine awe of what Merlin and Mack have pulled off here! I think this ride, although not what I was expecting, is actually a true stroke of genius on Merlin and Thorpe's part when viewed in context, and is something to really be proud of and get excited about!

I won't lie, my original hope was for something with a greater focus on airtime. Prior to Thursday's consultation, my fantasy for Thorpe's next coaster was a sprawling out and back B&M Hyper, or given the site, perhaps a B&M hyper twister. (A typical out and back would be easier said than done from Old Town for sure, and would certainly have required Thorpe to think outside the box). Upon the Mack hyper rumour beginning to circulate after Thursday's consultation, I then began to have visions of a Mack hyper twister with loads of twisty airtime hills and fun turns; something akin to an upscaled Alpina Blitz, or perhaps a twistier DC Rivals. So in that regard, I'll confess that I was certainly torn when I initially saw the layout, and not instantly enamoured like I'd perhaps hoped. The layout isn't what I was expecting, nor what I was personally hoping for or what I would have chosen; it doesn't look to have much of an airtime focus on the face of it, and while I'm sure it will have airtime (and quite strong airtime at that) in places, I maintain that it doesn't look like an airtime machine per se in the same way that many other hyper coasters are.

However, when I took off my B&M Hyper airtime goggles and saw this ride for what it is, I grew more and more impressed by it, and more and more excited to ride it. Yes, I do feel that like many of you, I would probably have vastly preferred British Shambhala or British DC Rivals to this coaster if based purely on personal preference, but looking at things with a little hindsight; within the space, and within the tight budget that Merlin/Thorpe had to work with, I'm convinced that this is just about the best outcome we could have hoped for. I actually feel it's a genuine stroke of brilliance from Mack and Merlin, because it looks like they've managed to fulfill the basic criteria that I felt Thorpe's next coaster required (a ride that makes a statement, is fun and rerideable, and is easily marketable) with not a ton in the way of resources with which to pull off such a beast of a ride.

When you're sat at home on Google Earth looking at Thorpe Park and scoping out coaster options, it's very easy to say "I think it'll be a 250ft B&M Hyper like Shambhala, that will have a big row of airtime hills going either over the lake or around the back of the park. Or it might be twisty with a load of twisted airtime hills, like the Hot Go hyper". Believe me, I know that... because that's exactly what I spent the bulk of the rumour phase doing! However in hindsight, I think things like this should be viewed in context. In terms of the site; they simply wouldn't have fitted a big old out and back coaster in there without some serious outside the box thinking. Sure, it could have been done, but it would have been tough. If I'm being honest, I don't think Old Town was the ideal site for a Thorpe hyper, and I think putting the station on the island next to Swarm and having it run round the back of Swarm towards the front of the park would have been a far more ideal fit for a hyper, but that's for another time. In terms of budget; as much as I was one of the keenest advocates for British Shambhala, I simply don't think Merlin has the cash to build such a ride, in hindsight.

With that context in mind, my point is; if you look at the space, cost and length Exodus had to work with, as well as the height they had to build to, I'm really, really impressed with what Merlin and Mack have pulled off here, personally. While it doesn't look to be overtly packed with airtime as such, the airtime potential is still there in places, and the ride looks to have some elements that could ride very well; for instance, I can't wait to experience that first drop, or that overbank that rolls into an inversion! To put it simply; while Exodus doesn't have a huge amount of elements, the elements it does have look like they could be pretty incredible, in my opinion! Not to mention that I also think it looks about as dominant as a hyper this compact could have done, which will really help with marketing and making it look impressive; great move, Thorpe!

Also, as much as I was initially hoping for a B&M Hyper Coaster; when putting aside all fantasies of British Mako or Shambhala and looking at things through the same brief that Exodus had to work within (in terms of the restrictions in space, cost and length, as well as the minimum height to build to), I'm not necessarily sure that B&M would have come up with anything more highly received. Don't get me wrong, I love the B&M Hyper I've done to bits, and I think under ideal circumstances, they could have done a terrific B&M Hyper at Thorpe that I and many others would have adored, but based on what I know about B&M as a company, I think they would have really struggled with the Exodus brief, particularly in the context of the B&M Hyper Coaster, a ride type that traditionally thrives when working with a large amount of space, a long track length and a large amount of money if wanting to build a ride of any significant height; although it's a tall ride that on paper would have worked perfectly at Thorpe, the ideal brief for a B&M Hyper Coaster is almost the polar opposite to the brief Exodus had to work with (minimum height aside, of course). And if you look at the site they're using, the length they were constrained to and the type of layout Exodus has, favouring big, dominant elements built for sheer visual impact... speaking realistically, I'm honestly unsure if a B&M Hyper would have lived up to expectations.

Imagine for a second that this had been a B&M Hyper. Assuming a ride of the same height and length and utilising the exact same footprint, I imagine that it would have struggled in a number of regards. For instance, I don't see B&M doing some daringly twisted drop like has been done here, so a decent bit of your track length would need to go towards some giant 180 degree turnaround directly after the drop, probably going about where the huge overbank is on Exodus; if the ride is dropping from a height of 236ft, it would probably need to be close to 200ft tall to be vaguely rideable in terms of forces, so a lot of track would be needed for this. After your turnaround, you could maybe fit one parabolic hill in at a push, but looking at Exodus, I'm honestly unsure if the site length would be long enough without extending the footprint... so you'd have to do another giant u-turn. Maybe repeat this pattern once more, do the splashdown to shave off speed, and then you're hitting the brake run, which would probably have necessitated a fair bit of track to get it high enough off the ground based on recent B&M creations and how I know B&M doesn't like to brake too forcefully at the end of a ride. No space at all for any of those brilliant parabolic floater hills within that footprint and length constraint. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure this ride would have been excellent, even if only for the raw speed of it, and B&M would have done something crafty with the turnarounds to make them really fun, but rightly or wrongly, I feel like that would have had enthusiasts gazing longingly at B&M Hypers abroad and tutting about what a rubbish example of the ride type it was, which Thorpe certainly wouldn't have wanted.

With Exodus on the other hand; the ride looks so unique, and so creative and daring in terms of its elements, that it looks like something really special that can't be compared with anything else. They've utilised the space and length phenomenally and pulled off a genuinely excellent-looking coaster, in my opinion; while not the longest of rides, some of the elements look like they could be absolutely sensational, and it's actually turning heads around the world and making people abroad jealous, which I think is a surefire sign that they've done an excellent job, personally.

I know I've rambled on a bit here (sorry to waste your time...), so I'll wrap this up. In conclusion; my stance on this coaster has changed considerably since yesterday, and after a bit of thought and reflection, I can't wait to see this take shape, I'm absolutely pumped to ride it, and while I know it sounds overly sentimental, the creativity and innovation shown in this ride makes me really quite proud to be British.

I understand why people might be disappointed, but viewing this ride in context, I'm absolutely chuffed with what I'm seeing! Bring on opening day; I can't wait to try Exodus out, and I'm confident it'll be a huge, huge hit!
 
I agree with what you've said @Matt N and we've both had conversations about B&M hypers for Thorpe and I'm sure we would both have proffered one however for what this is it looks solid.
Matt N said:
, I can't wait to experience that first drop, or that overbank that rolls into an inversion! To put it simply; while Exodus doesn't have a huge amount of elements, the elements it does have look like they could be pretty incredible, in my opinion! Not to mention that I also think it looks about as dominant as a hyper this compact could have done, which will really help with marketing and making it look impressive; great move, Thorpe!
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This point here is an interesting one but I do think I agree. Some of the elements on this ride look crazy and really well done. I do think it'll make for a more interesting ride. For what project Exodus had to work with I think the layout is very clever. I'm not sure it's the right decision and I agree with your thoughts that this wasn't the right place for a B&M hyper at Thorpe. I would say the old town plot would've been better used for something like a GCI Woodie but considering the limitations of the plot they were working on I genuinely think they did a good job and the ride will probably be really good.

The one thing we can say about this project though is that it will be one of the most unique and interesting hyper coasters in the world. It might not be the best or the tallest or the fastest however I think it will provide a very different experience to any other hyper coaster that's out there.
 
Matt can't do concision or brevity, his posts are considerably longer than the new ride.
Far too much is being read from the consultation document.
There are zero submitted plans.
Save the lengthy verbiage until the plans are fixed, because they are likely to change a great deal between now and the final plan.
 
Thameslink Rail said:
Ladies and Gentlemen, I think we have found post of the year!
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I'll admit that the length of my post is perhaps ironic given the length of the ride I'm talking about... I just timed myself reading my post, and I took approximately 6 minutes and 54 seconds to read it in full (I'm so sorry...).

For some perspective; assuming a full ride duration of around 1 minute and 30 seconds (based on what people have said and various NL2 creations I've seen), the ride would have done approximately 4.6 full cycles in the amount of time it took me to read my post... if we're going with the lift to brake run duration of approximately 40 seconds (at an optimistic guess), the ride could have negotiated the main thrilling body of its circuit approximately 10.4 times...
 
Like others, from the start I thought an RMC TRex, would examples the RMC Easter Eggs and if it was single rail maybe the short length it is as will be so intense?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
If you guys would appreciate a concise version of what I rambled about for nearly 2,000 words and 7 minutes' worth of text above...

TL;DR: My take on Exodus has improved considerably. After a bit of thought, I'm now pretty chuffed with the outcome, as within the wider context of the site and Thorpe Park as it is now, I think it looks to meet the criteria of easy marketability and rerideability that I felt Thorpe's next ride needed within limited resources; I think they've used the length and space phenomenally. And as much as I wanted a B&M Hyper originally, I'm not wholly convinced that B&M would necessarily have produced anything better within the same brief.

OK, it's maybe not that concise, but I'd say it's a vast improvement on 1,700 words and gets across most of what I was trying to say...
 
rob666 said:
New ride at Thorpe Park
Concision and brevity
Still long way to go
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Is that a haiku by any chance, Rob? Very clever, if so!

And yes, I get your gist... I struggle with concision and brevity at the best of times!
 
Matt N said:
Is that a haiku by any chance, Rob? Very clever, if so!

And yes, I get your gist... I struggle with concision and brevity at the best of times!
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It's been a while since we had a @rob666 haiku or other bit of poetry. I've rather missed it in a weird way. :p

I struggle with keeping things brief and concise as well, Matt. Makes me wonder if it's an autism thing.
 
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