Thorpe Park: General Discussion

[Matt N]

Just to say this episode is now available on iPlayer if you don’t want to wait for the BBC Two broadcast - John Burton et al feature:

The Secret Genius of Modern Life - Series 3: 3. Rollercoaster

Hannah uncovers the wild origins of the modern-day rollercoaster and gets the inside story on the UK’s newest, tallest and fastest coaster – Thorpe Park's Hyperia.

www.bbc.co.uk

I haven't watched it yet... but let's hope that Hannah doesn't dissect Hyperia with a screwdriver like she's done with the subjects of many of the previous episodes!

On the other hand, maybe it would help Thorpe figure out why the ride keeps breaking and/or stalling...

 

[PJUK]

Just to say this episode is now available on iPlayer if you don’t want to wait for the BBC Two broadcast - John Burton et al feature:

Seen the episode now, including the lift hill walk!!! Its a good episode about coasters in general, and the physics. As you would expect the Hyperia specific sections feel like a free advert on the BBC. Very much celebrating how "wonderful and groundbreaking it is". Having said that though, it does cover the period early summer last year when it includes news footage of the ride opening, then closing due to technical issues. Nothing at all is mentioned as to the cause of the closure. The most interesting, related directly to Hyperia, is when reference is made to the outer section, and how it was designed to be slow and to provide a decent amount of "hanging". As has been pointed out on this thread before, if you design a coaster to go slow for effect, there is always the risk it will go too slow. Maybe Mr Burton, who appears in the programme, is having difficult conversations with Thorpe Park and Mac Rides.

 

[Dan19F1]

It looks like it’s reopened today! Currently on a 60 minute queue so I guess it’s on 1 train.

 

[Secret Weapon]

Two points:-

1) Shawn from Theme Park Worldwide said in his recent Hyperia video that both trains have rolled back at some point over the past year, and so the issue isn't simply with one of the two trains, as I had previously speculated.

2) I found the recent Hannah Fry video very interesting, and I would recommend it. One thing that I found slightly misleading, though, was her claim that tubular steel is inherently stronger than solid steel; whilst this is probably true when comparing two sections of steel of the same length and mass (but different diameters), I'm not sure whether it's true when comparing two sections of steel with the same length and diameter (but different masses) - similar to comparing an I-beam to a solid steel beam.

Also: she didn't mention whether there were other advantages to using hollow tubes versus solid rods, such as being able to fill them with noise-dampening sand (which I think Nemesis Inferno has?), reducing cost, reducing the weight on the foundations, and possibly being easier to bend in the factory.

(She also used the phrase "secret weapon" when discussing Hyperia's restraints, which may or may not have been a reference to the codenames at Alton Towers, or perhaps to yours truly! )

 

[flyingguitar]

I'm not sure whether it's true when comparing two sections of steel with the same length and diameter (but different masses) - similar to comparing an I-beam to a solid steel beam.

You are not wrong, the second moment of area essentially is how you can determine how hard it is to bend stuff, it essentially is about how much material is placed bas on the distance from the centre of bending (typically found for the centre of the beam), it is like trying to bend 2 bits of aluminium, east to do when they are flat, but when they are on edge it becomes much harder.

I-beams are really strong as the bending up/down is in the center, so you have the top and bottom plates that are adding a large amount of meterial to the very edges of the beam where the stresses are highest.

you do get an increase in strength based on solid beams, but it is very diminishing returns

you can see from the image, for a tube it dose have less moment of area, but that differnce will not be that large, untill you start to get to quite thin areas, as the center of the meterial isn't doing much work.

I could also see an argument that the tube is stronger (at the same diameter) as the solid tube as it not only has to support the train, it also has to support its own weight, I am not sure on any of the weights, stresses, etc in mack track but I would imagine given the thickness of the tube a significant amount of weight would be added by the meterial, for not enough added strength, potentially making it weaker for this senario.

 

[Josh555]

Finally got my first ride on this today, spent £20 on a fast track because I was paranoid it would go down and it’s only running one train.

Fantastic ride, hopefully goes onto 2 trains later.

 

[Smiley]

2) I found the recent Hannah Fry video very interesting, and I would recommend it. One thing that I found slightly misleading, though, was her claim that tubular steel is inherently stronger than solid steel;

Wonder if it makes a difference if you're bending it?? Perhaps the stresses on solid steel are greater as a result??

Either way, I'm not clever or brave enough to contradict Hannah Fry. Thought I also believe everything that Brian Cox says, and he did sing "Things can only get better" and now I'm beginning to doubt him.....

 

[Bowser]

How long was it on 1 train last time? What's the likelihood of it going to 2 over Easter? Bowser Jr was 1.305m on the measuring stick today

 

[Numaticjoe]

How long was it on 1 train last time? What's the likelihood of it going to 2 over Easter? Bowser Jr was 1.305m on the measuring stick today

120+ Ish minutes I remember seeing when I went and it was on one train last year.
For the most part it was usually 150 to 170.
Would never go below 120 at any time really during the day, obviously mornings and evenings differ but this is just as a whole in general.

I'd think they would try their absolute hardest to get it running well on 2 trains for Easter holidays because it will just get mental queue times otherwise.

 

[owenstreet7]

How long was it on 1 train last time? What's the likelihood of it going to 2 over Easter? Bowser Jr was 1.305m on the measuring stick today

I believe last time it valleyed, it operated from the press night of Fright Night (3 October) to around the closure period (14-16 October) on one train which was about 10 days.

I understand a huge factor was that it was Fright Night (the park's busiest time of year) so the park didn't want Hyperia down for an extended period so had it on one train to offer minimal disruption (instead of closing the ride for testing for a period of time).

For the first time it valleyed, it tested for about 2 hours before opening on the advertised Golden Day (23 June) on 2 trains. It operated on one train for one day beforehand.

I believe it depends on whether the park are happy to close Hyperia for testing at some point (which might be possible before the Easter Bank Holiday weekend).

 

[owenstreet7]

I believe last time it valleyed, it operated from the press night of Fright Night (3 October) to around the closure period (14-16 October) on one train which was about 10 days.

I understand a huge factor was that it was Fright Night (the park's busiest time of year) so the park didn't want Hyperia down for an extended period so had it on one train to offer minimal disruption (instead of closing the ride for testing for a period of time).

For the first time it valleyed, it tested for about 2 hours before opening on the advertised Golden Day (23 June) on 2 trains. It operated on one train for one day beforehand.

I believe it depends on whether the park are happy to close Hyperia for testing at some point (which might be possible before the Easter Bank Holiday weekend).

Sorry to double post however to answer @Bowser question

I'm seeing on social media that Hyperia is back on 2 trains now.

 

[Smiley]

How long was it on 1 train last time? What's the likelihood of it going to 2 over Easter? Bowser Jr was 1.305m on the measuring stick today

Remember we all shrink as the day progresses - had this issue at Disney once where we were allowed on the ride in the morning, then had to protest to ride in the afternoon. Ended up buying some "lift sneakers" that raised my son by 1cm to avoid when 1.4m. Not sure I risked his life more than riding Collossus

 

[Bowser]

Just to say this episode is now available on iPlayer if you don’t want to wait for the BBC Two broadcast - John Burton et al feature:

The Secret Genius of Modern Life - Series 3: 3. Rollercoaster

Hannah uncovers the wild origins of the modern-day rollercoaster and gets the inside story on the UK’s newest, tallest and fastest coaster – Thorpe Park's Hyperia.

www.bbc.co.uk

This was absolutely brilliant. I could watch her do a whole series on theme park things.

Also interesting to learn that Hyperia's throughput on 2 trains is only 800pph. With that, Mandril and Speedway, will Merlin ever build a high throughput coaster again?

 

[owenstreet7]

This was absolutely brilliant. I could watch her do a whole series on theme park things.

Also interesting to learn that Hyperia's throughput on 2 trains is only 800pph. With that, Mandril and Speedway, will Merlin ever build a high throughput coaster again?

I've heard that it is in the region of 1000-1050pph. I believe as is with Toxicator that they're stating lower hourly throughput numbers (or targets) because the operations at Merlin Parks can't seem to keep up with the theoretical throughputs.

It may be based on what the coaster is actually achieving over the theoretical throughput.

With whether they will build a high throughput coaster again, I'm sceptical at the moment as it seems to be part of their strategy to sell fast tracks which may or may not be influcing decisions on capacity on their rollercoaster projects.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

I've heard that it is in the region of 1000-1050pph. I believe as is with Toxicator that they're stating lower hourly throughput numbers (or targets) because the operations at Merlin Parks can't seem to keep up with the theoretical throughputs.

It may be based on what the coaster is actually achieving over the theoretical throughput.

With whether they will build a high throughput coaster again, I'm sceptical at the moment as it seems to be part of their strategy to sell fast tracks which may or may not be influcing decisions on capacity on their rollercoaster projects.

I've clocked it at around 920pph, but only on re-opening day and never since.

On Wednesday I got an average of 78 seconds between dispatches, over 5 readings in the afternoon. Assuming every seat is filled, about 920 pph.

 

[Alix]

Having watched the Prof Hannah Fry documentary, I think a key take away is, don't wear a partly buttoned blouse on Hyperia as it will result in a wardrobe malfunction.

Oh and something about circles being more dangerous than tear drops...

 

[Smiley]

Also interesting to learn that Hyperia's throughput on 2 trains is only 800pph.

I remember reading about Disney imagineering. They almost always separate unload/load stations so that the ride is " ready just for you". It also maximises throughput, but requires more staff (hence why Merlin probably don't do it). Yet Stealth, Saw, X etc do a good job at it.

No idea why they didn't do it for Hyperion, other than for the same reason they didn't build the second half of the coaster

 

[AT86]

I remember reading about Disney imagineering. They almost always separate unload/load stations so that the ride is " ready just for you". It also maximises throughput, but requires more staff (hence why Merlin probably don't do it). Yet Stealth, Saw, X etc do a good job at it.

No idea why they didn't do it for Hyperion, other than for the same reason they didn't build the second half of the coaster

Seperate off and onload only seems to come into play (at Merlin/Tussauds parks at least) when the on load and off load is the same side (Saw, Stealth, Rita) - because otherwise you can’t open the air gates for the next batch of guests until the current ones have cleared, which slows everything down.

X was a seperate case because they originally wanted the empty train parked in the station before guests saw it so they didn’t know it was going to go backwards.

 

[Skyscraper]

X was a seperate case because they originally wanted the empty train parked in the station before guests saw it so they didn’t know it was going to go backwards.

Surprised they didn't think to add full-height doors as the air gates then, that would work.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Seperate off and onload only seems to come into play (at Merlin/Tussauds parks at least) when the on load and off load is the same side (Saw, Stealth, Rita) - because otherwise you can’t open the air gates for the next batch of guests until the current ones have cleared, which slows everything down.

X was a seperate case because they originally wanted the empty train parked in the station before guests saw it so they didn’t know it was going to go backwards.

Whenever I ride Th13teen, this always strikes me as a missed opportunity. It would add much more to the "If you go down to the woods today, you better not go alone" schtick, to have empty trains returning to the station.