Thorpe Park: General Discussion

[MrTowers]

Ohhh... That's a fantastic point and might not point to relationship fatigue or anything.

We did have Raptor and Krake a year earlier in 2011 although definitely slightly longer than the mid to late 00s pause.


The original plan in the MTDP from 2010-2016 at the time was to build a coaster on the island where Swarms final turnaround is. This was intended to link Stealth over to Swarm with a pathway as well.

I'll link in the Planning Application for this.

One thing I've noticed is that the unbuilt coaster seems to have a layout that is like a B&M Dive Coaster although it could be something completely different.

https://docs.runnymede.gov.uk/PublicAccess_Live/Document/ViewDocument?id=2E08DD97950F11EAA9B8ECB1D75CE6C5

Online Standard Details

I've never seen this before but it gives a good idea of some of the thought process from the park management at the time. It also suggests that they have enough space for at least 2 more coasters if they really want to, although the current hotel would need to go (not a massive loss with plans for a new one).

I assume this was given planning approval and would always be something they could come back to in the future. It does state they would only build on 2 of the 3 sites so the empty island would be preferred. This would make the park feel so much bigger and probably allow them to increase capacity, something they need for the fright night events. It also takes away 2 dead ends and connects swarm and stealth without having to walk all the way through the middle of the park.

Fingers crossed the rumoured RMC does happen here and we don't have to wait another 10 years for it.

 

[Secret Weapon]

I would say wait for this year's numbers to see if Hyperia has been a success. They have probably paid for the coaster twice over just from the Fast Track sales at £20 a go anyway.

That's a good point (that I hadn't thought of): traditionally, visitor numbers were used as a gauge of a park's success, but that may have been a metric that was used in the days before Fastrack tickets and Merlin Annual Passes, so perhaps a combined figure of ticket revenue (including passes) plus Fastrack sales would be a more accurate gauge?

One downside is that it may encourage Merlin to increase ticket prices, though (in order to boost revenue), instead of decreasing ticket prices (in order to increase headcount).

 

[b2311e]

I visited Thorpe for the blue light day at the start of the season, when Hyperia didn't open, and the blue light day on Sunday just gone. I would argue it was far quieter than it should have been, and I did think people might've been put off. The car park was quite full to start the day, but Hyperia opened on a one train service. I queued 1hr 45 mins in single rider (hardly anyone in front of me), with a lot of that being wasted whilst they added the train, and it immediately misbehaved. I suspect it might've been caused by the speed, as the testing was done with no weight. People were leaving the queue with every empty train sent.

With that messing around, Colossus and Stealth having the usual occasional downtime, people were clearly leaving the park. Bearing in mind it was an 8pm close, I'd say by about 3pm the queues were non-existent on everything other than Hyperia. Ops had improved throughout the park during the day, but at the start, it was really poor.

I cannot imagine anyone rushing back, especially if needing to pay full price, when this is what they've experienced

 

[MrTowers]

That's a good point (that I hadn't thought of): traditionally, visitor numbers were used as a gauge of a park's success, but that may have been a metric that was used in the days before Fastrack tickets and Merlin Annual Passes, so perhaps a combined figure of ticket revenue (including passes) plus Fastrack sales would be a more accurate gauge?

One downside is that it may encourage Merlin to increase ticket prices, though (in order to boost revenue), instead of decreasing ticket prices (in order to increase headcount).

Whilst I'm not advocating the idea of building attractions to generate fast track sales, if it makes financial sense to build bigger and better rides that pay for themselves i wouldn't be against it. It reminds me of Blackpool in its heyday when the bigger or better the attraction the more they charged per ride. Seeing the hour long queues for Pepsi Max charging £5 a ride you could bet the operations were maxing out ££££. Once it went to the entry price model the desire to go bigger went away and moved towards overall value / cost cutting.

Ultimately if it means they are able to borrow more money to fund new rides based on the forecasted fast track sales that they can demonstrate from Hyperia it could be good news for the future of the park. Combine that with the cheap MAP keeping the place busy pushing more fast track sales. At £20 for a single ride its nearly the cost of park entry. I would love to see how many they have sold in 2 years.

 

[Secret Weapon]

Is this book that claims where the blame was proportioned in any way official or someone passing off opinion as fact?

I've just checked the book (I didn't have it to hand when you posted your message), and it simply says on page 261 that Merlin made the statement about never building another wing coaster post-Swarm "in an interview with enthusiasts", but it does not provide a specific source (if I can find the author's contact details then I may contact him to find out where it was stated, and I will update this post if I receive a response!).

I'm glad that I checked the book again, because I also forgot this gem: as well as 2012's disappointing attendance supposedly proving that wing coasters are poor (and should never be used again), Thorpe Park also decided that the strong performance in 2009 and 2010 proved that attractions with an IP attached (such as Saw) will perform well, whereas those without (such as The Swarm) will not, which is why they began investing in new IPs such as Angry Birds and I'm a Celebrity, et cetera.

There may be some truth to this, but: (A) I am fairly sure that Alton Towers' / Merlin's / Tussauds' best ever year occurred in 1994, when a ride with no IP attached (Nemesis) launched; (B) none of the Thorpe Park rollercoasters prior to Saw had an IP attached, either (e.g. Colossus, Nemesis Inferno, and Stealth), but yet the park's attendance apparently did not disappoint the management when those rides first opened; and (C) having an IP can actually be a disadvantage - especially if the IP becomes embroiled in a controversy, loses its appeal, imposes too many restrictions, and/or costs too much money.

 

[Hid]

Alton Towers' / Merlin's / Tussauds' best ever year occurred in 1994, when a ride with no IP attached (Nemesis) launched

Towers had not only Nemesis open that year but Toyland Tours to which did have a small scene with an IP two major additions in one year.

I think one of Thorpe's biggest weaknesses is marketing compared to Towers its just not as good as there's when The Smiler launch they had the smile plastered all over the UK, Swarm did nothing like that.

 

[SuperMuscleMan]

Towers had not only Nemesis open that year but Toyland Tours to which did have a small scene with an IP two major additions in one year.

I think one of Thorpe's biggest weaknesses is marketing compared to Towers its just not as good as there's when The Smiler launch they had the smile plastered all over the UK, Swarm did nothing like that.

That was the first time I went to Alton towers and my first nemesis ride! Toyland toys was huge! The que was insane for it. I think it was over 2 hours but the use of the flying elephant, sonic and nemesis also made the park seem multi generational. Investment now seems to be one demographic at a time now ant any merlin park.

 

[Bowser]

Investment now seems to be one demographic at a time now ant any merlin park.

Jumanji at Chessington added 3 attractions… though you could reasonably argue they’re all for the same demographic.

Paw Patrol will be adding 3/4 attractions, as will Minecraft… but again you could probably make the same claim for each of those

I think other than AT the other 3 parks have become quite demographic targeted whereas in the past they were more all round parks (except Lego).

 

[Hid]

Really all the parks should aim for mixed Chessington used to be much closer to what Towers was in 90's with multiple thrill rides. And Thorpe was more of a family park maybe they should consider reopening Thorpe Farm

 

[owenstreet7]

Really all the parks should aim for mixed Chessington used to be much closer to what Towers was in 90's with multiple thrill rides. And Thorpe was more of a family park maybe they should consider reopening Thorpe Farm

I think the only thing Chessington was missing that would solidify the all ages direction in the 90s would be a thrilling coaster

If this happened, the family direction may not have happened in quite the same way

 

[Dhev123]

Thorpe Park also decided that the strong performance in 2009 and 2010 proved that attractions with an IP attached (such as Saw) will perform well, whereas those without (such as The Swarm) will not, which is why they began investing in new IPs such as Angry Birds and I'm a Celebrity, et cetera.

Until they soon discovered that the IPs they used for their attractions were tacky af and not well thought out

Honestly, SAW was a great IP to attach to a coaster, given the target demo for the park, and lucky for thorpe, the franchise has stood the test of time, with many recent saw installations - the theme makes perfect sense for the park and their visitors

The same cannot be said for I'm a celeb, Angry Birds etc.