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UK politics general discussion

Austerity measures have hit the "have nots" hard...single families, unemployed, those living on benefits.
Those who were working in better paid jobs, and the well off retired, did not suffer much.
For "austerity measures", read "starve the poor, they are not worth it".
 
There is nothing wrong with removing waste in government spending. The issue with austerity is it stunts economic growth and reduces external investment (if your public services are poor companies tend not to invest in your country).

The odd fact is by the time the Tory party came into power the Labour government had mostly recovered the country from the 2008 crash but they used it as an excuse to push an ideological small state agenda.

The main struggle the Tory party now have is they are running out of things to privatise and the biggest prize for them is also the hardest (privatising the NHS), Rishy Sunak has well established links to American private health companies, does he have the guts to make that last push (hope not).
 
Sunak has a few things going for him...
A decent Hindu who dropped into office on Diwali...the world noticed and smiled.
He didn't go to Eton, he stabbed Boris in the back when he had too, and he has Jedi sympathies.

And the only way to get a Conservative prime minister of colour...don't let the Tory membership decide the result!
Maggie Blackamoor's projectile vomiting off Little Britain comes to mind.
 
rob666 said:
Sunak has a few things going for him...
A decent Hindu who dropped into office on Diwali...the world noticed and smiled.
He didn't go to Eton, he stabbed Boris in the back when he had too, and he has Jedi sympathies.

And the only way to get a Conservative prime minister of colour...don't let the Tory membership decide the result!
Maggie Blackamoor's projectile vomiting off Little Britain comes to mind.
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I think the Tories will get a poll bump with Sunak. He isn’t a great public speaker and untested when it comes to campaigning so not convinced he will save the party at the next election but watch this space.
 
The interesting thing is that Sunak’s appointment has generated a fair amount of uproar among Tory members and previous Tory voters, which could make it very hard for him.

Some are saying that the party has been “destroyed from within” by his appointment, some say that his rise has been “insidious”, and a considerable number are saying that they will be cancelling their memberships as a result: https://www.itv.com/news/2022-10-24...ership-as-rishi-sunak-wins-leadership-contest

One tirade against Sunak by a Tory member that I found particularly striking is set out in this article from LBC, which talks about a Tory member who called in to express his discontent about Sunak: https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/sangita-...ers-claim-that-rishi-sunak-isnt-even-british/

The caller cited a number of reasons why they did not support Sunak; some of the most striking quotes were along the lines of:
  • “80% of Tory members back Boris. Sunak will lose badly and only get 20% of the vote in an actual contest with the electorate”.
  • “Sunak bankrupted the country during COVID”.
  • “Sunak isn’t even British. He doesn’t love England like Boris does; he has business interests in America, he has Indian family.”
  • “The British people want someone who represents them. 85% of people in this country are White British, so why shouldn’t they have someone who represents them?”
  • When the presenter challenged him on Sunak “not being British” by pointing out that he is a British citizen born in Southampton, he said “Half of Al-Qaeda are British citizens. Having a British passport doesn’t make you British.”
  • “Him being PM is like me being president of Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, and that would never happen, would it?”
  • “Can you imagine him going to the Scottish nationalists and being the Prime Minister of the Scottish nationalists? It would just be totally ludicrous to consider”.
I must say that while I fully respect everyone’s right to an opinion, I personally disagree with many of the points the caller raised (quite possibly all of them, in fact), but it would seem I might be in a minority… if this caller represents the average Tory member/voter and average member of the electorate, then I fear that Sunak could possibly have a tough time ahead of him managing the divisions in his party and the country.

On a side note… I’m guessing that LBC isn’t a particularly impartial outlet? There were many occasions where the presenter had her head in her hands and tried to argue with the caller’s points, and didn’t exactly beat around the bush with her ending thoughts on his argument… it sounded very different to a BBC interview, for sure.
 
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Matt N said:
The interesting thing is that Sunak’s appointment has generated a fair amount of uproar among Tory members and previous Tory voters, which could make it very hard for him.

Some are saying that the party has been “destroyed from within” by his appointment, some say that his rise has been “insidious”, and a considerable number are saying that they will be cancelling their memberships as a result: https://www.itv.com/news/2022-10-24...ership-as-rishi-sunak-wins-leadership-contest

One tirade against Sunak by a Tory member that I found particularly striking is set out in this article from LBC, which talks about a Tory member who called in to express his discontent about Sunak: https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/sangita-...ers-claim-that-rishi-sunak-isnt-even-british/

The caller cited a number of reasons why they did not support Sunak; some of the most striking quotes were along the lines of:
  • “80% of Tory members back Boris. Sunak will lose badly and only get 20% of the vote in an actual contest with the electorate”.
  • “Sunak bankrupted the country during COVID”.
  • “Sunak isn’t even British. He doesn’t love England like Boris does; he has business interests in America, he has Indian family.”
  • “The British people want someone who represents them. 85% of people in this country are White British, so why shouldn’t they have someone who represents them?”
  • When the presenter challenged him on Sunak “not being British” by pointing out that he is a British citizen born in Southampton, he said “Half of Al-Qaeda are British citizens. Having a British passport doesn’t make you British.”
  • “Him being PM is like me being president of Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, and that would never happen, would it?”
  • “Can you imagine him going to the Scottish nationalists and being the Prime Minister of the Scottish nationalists? It would just be totally ludicrous to consider”.
I must say that while I fully respect everyone’s right to an opinion, I personally disagree with many of the points the caller raised (quite possibly all of them, in fact), but it would seem I might be in a minority… if this caller represents the average Tory member/voter and average member of the electorate, then I fear that Sunak could possibly have a tough time ahead of him managing the divisions in this party and country.
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Giving airtime to racists like this is half the reason we are in this mess now. Minority idiots being given a platform in the interests of ‘balance’ is very dangerous.
 
Matt N said:
The interesting thing is that Sunak’s appointment has generated a fair amount of uproar among Tory members and previous Tory voters, which could make it very hard for him.

Some are saying that the party has been “destroyed from within” by his appointment, some say that his rise has been “insidious”, and a considerable number are saying that they will be cancelling their memberships as a result: https://www.itv.com/news/2022-10-24...ership-as-rishi-sunak-wins-leadership-contest

One tirade against Sunak by a Tory member that I found particularly striking is set out in this article from LBC, which talks about a Tory member who called in to express his discontent about Sunak: https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/sangita-...ers-claim-that-rishi-sunak-isnt-even-british/

The caller cited a number of reasons why they did not support Sunak; some of the most striking quotes were along the lines of:
  • “80% of Tory members back Boris. Sunak will lose badly and only get 20% of the vote in an actual contest with the electorate”.
  • “Sunak bankrupted the country during COVID”.
  • “Sunak isn’t even British. He doesn’t love England like Boris does; he has business interests in America, he has Indian family.”
  • “The British people want someone who represents them. 85% of people in this country are White British, so why shouldn’t they have someone who represents them?”
  • When the presenter challenged him on Sunak “not being British” by pointing out that he is a British citizen born in Southampton, he said “Half of Al-Qaeda are British citizens. Having a British passport doesn’t make you British.”
  • “Him being PM is like me being president of Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, and that would never happen, would it?”
  • “Can you imagine him going to the Scottish nationalists and being the Prime Minister of the Scottish nationalists? It would just be totally ludicrous to consider”.
I must say that while I fully respect everyone’s right to an opinion, I personally disagree with many of the points the caller raised (quite possibly all of them, in fact), but it would seem I might be in a minority… if this caller represents the average Tory member/voter and average member of the electorate, then I fear that Sunak could possibly have a tough time ahead of him managing the divisions in this party and country.
Click to expand...

That caller does represent many Tory members.
Thankfully, there are not that many actual party members.
Sunak does face a very hard time.
 
Matt N said:
  • “The British people want someone who represents them. 85% of people in this country are White British, so why shouldn’t they have someone who represents them?”
  • When the presenter challenged him on Sunak “not being British” by pointing out that he is a British citizen born in Southampton, he said “Half of Al-Qaeda are British citizens. Having a British passport doesn’t make you British.”
  • “Him being PM is like me being president of Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, and that would never happen, would it?”
Click to expand...

The problem here is that such a person has been given a platform to spout such bile. Of course there are people that think like this, but they should be ignored. I am quite confident they don't represent widely held beliefs if anyone, just a very tiny and very vocal minority. They should bot be pit forward to the masses as either a normal valid opinion.
 
It's where the rise of the 'extreme' sides has come from (plus social media algorithms and being able to find those "like-minded" forums).

Especially on the BBC. You'd get a topic discussing the effects of global warming but in the interests of 'balance' you also get an oligarch who believes that wind power causes autism.

In the eyes of a lot of Tory voters though they'll currently see things as the man who BETRAYED BORIS getting the job he was after. They'll get a rise in the polls because he's not Truss or Boris but can a man who's allegedly richer than the king and doesn't pay tax keep good faith with those due to really suffer in the next few months?

Tories will be angry with him until a GE comes around and they vote Tory anyway because they always have done, all politicians are the same and Starmer wants to kill the first born of every Home Counties family to power Number 10.
 
Matt N said:
On a side note… I’m guessing that LBC isn’t a particularly impartial outlet? There were many occasions where the presenter had her head in her hands and tried to argue with the caller’s points, and didn’t exactly beat around the bush with her ending thoughts on his argument… it sounded very different to a BBC interview, for sure.
Click to expand...

LBC is a talk radio channel, it doesn’t aim to be impartial and has no legal requirement to be so unlike TV news, in fact it’s general model is to have hosts from various parts of the political spectrum; so you have the likes of James O’Brian who would be classed as centre left, and then Nick Farari who is more traditional Tory right wing. They tend to avoid the extremes of the political spectrum for hosts (though I think Farage might have at least guest hosted at times), they do allow the callers to be a little more extreme though.
 
Dave said:
LBC is a talk radio channel, it doesn’t aim to be impartial and has no legal requirement to be so unlike TV news, in fact it’s general model is to have hosts from various parts of the political spectrum; so you have the likes of James O’Brian who would be classed as centre left, and then Nick Farari who is more traditional Tory right wing. They tend to avoid the extremes of the political spectrum for hosts (though I think Farage might have at least guest hosted at times), they do allow the callers to be a little more extreme though.
Click to expand...
Farage used to have his own show on LBC!

I don't agree that Farage is an "extreme" right winger. Eitherway, I wouldn't fall out with the exteme ends of either political spectrum being on LBC, it would make for a laugh as it does when they the extreme callers on!
 
My biggest problem with Sunak is that he signed off on some absolutely massive wastes of money during Covid which will stay on the national debt for god knows how many decades or longer.

Firstly there was furlough (which I understand the need for) and especially business grants which have proved to have been easy enough to scam or take advantage of if you were that way inclined. Then when they realised we'd probably been scammed out of around £4 billion they said they wouldn't bother trying to go after the culprits. Secondly, the utterly unnecessary 'Eat Out To Help Out'. People had been locked in for so long that they couldn't wait to get out and start spending the money that they'd saved during lockdown, so what does Rishi do? I know, I'll pay for a massive discount on everyone's food (out of the public budget) even though they couldn't wait to go out and spend that money anyway. This had the added bonus of increasing Covid transmission as everyone piled into the likes of McDonalds to get as much cheap food as they could. Seriously bad judgement there. Then thirdly, we have the infamous Track and Trace system which was estimated to have cost upto about £37 billion and achieved very little.

Of course, he was free to resign IF any of these things were being absolutely forced upon him (he clearly didn't need the money from the job). Either way, he was willing to go through with all of these things as the man who looked after the public purse. I'm not full of confidence. Not that I really care who is leader any more anyway, to be honest. Mordaunt, Sunak or any of the others, it wouldn't have bothered me whichever one got picked.
 
Don't forget that Sunak was also issued a fixed penalty notice for breaching the Covid regulations. He entered No. 10 as somebody who had broken the law. The media seem to have conveniently forgotten this fact.

I also see we have Braverman back as Home Secretary. Didn't she break the Ministerial Code only six days ago...? Are these cabinet appointments about putting the best people into the right departments or about trying to arrest the infighting within the party?
 
What a difference a day makes. This morning on the way to Towers I was hearing near universal praise for Sunak on the radio (although mainly driven by relief that Liz Truss was gone and that the country was so broken the only way is now up).

I've just arrived home and have learnt that our new Prime Minister is just as much an idiot as his predecessors. The following crazy appointments to his cabinet:

Suella Braverman who admitted breaking the ministerial code HERSELF and resigned HERSELF just 6 DAYS AGO. A woman who went off on an irrelevant, unhinged and frankly mental rant about about Tofu eaters and the "wokeratti" in the commons recently; and someone who seems to get so get unhealthily aroused by the thought of planes full of asylum seekers on the way to Africa to the point where she says it's her "dream".

Bully boy clown Gavin Williamson. The guy who threatened legal action against his own schools to force them to open.... 1 day before he told them all to close.

Dominic Raab, a guy with a majority thinner than an ice cream wafer has got a role, Deputy Prime Minister no less!

Michael "fed up with experts" Gove.

This morning I was fearing a renaissance in this ramshackle governments fortunes. A few hours later and it appears the focus is on holding the party together and to hell with good governance.
 
This has always been about holding the party together. All the time when MPs were interviewed about the internal party crisis it was always about how it was affecting the party whilst the rest of us plebs are sat at home waiting for someone to do ANYTHING about the on-going issues.

Party before country.

At least Dickensian villain Mogg has gone. Back to the ERG no doubt to continue forcing through whatever nonsense they've cooked up.

Badenoch also now in as Minister for Women and Equality. After her transphobic stuff with her failed leadership bid earlier in the year (banning gender neutral toilets and trans women are 'men'). Perfect to continue this on-going "culture war" crap that's the only thing they have going for them since Brexit is "done".
 
My local MP is now in the Cabinet, as it turns out… Mark Harper, the Forest of Dean MP, has been appointed Transport Secretary.
 
Benzin said:
At least Dickensian villain Mogg has gone. Back to the ERG no doubt to continue forcing through whatever nonsense they've cooked up.

Badenoch also now in as Minister for Women and Equality. After her transphobic stuff with her failed leadership bid earlier in the year (banning gender neutral toilets and trans women are 'men'). Perfect to continue this on-going "culture war" crap that's the only thing they have going for them since Brexit is "done".
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Hang on, Badenoch was the other person who during her leadership campaign also kept throwing the word "woke" around as an insult at people! They've put her in charge of equality? Lord have mercy on us all.

I understand why he has to give ERG fanatics tummy rubs and chin tickles to try and tame them to stave off another rebellion. But these specific people in these specific jobs? Sounds like a recipe for trouble. This is little more than a continuation of Truss' strategy of putting all warring factions together into one room in the hope they'll be singing kumbaya come 2024 whilst the PM hides under a desk and hopes this whole thing blows over.
 
Matt.GC said:
This is little more than a continuation of Truss' strategy of putting all warring factions together into one room in the hope they'll be singing kumbaya come 2024 whilst the PM hides under a desk and hopes this whole thing blows over.
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There's about as much chance of that happening as there is of me turning straight.
 
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