Universal GB - Archived Post Announcement Discussion

[Ash]

Thorpe Park will see all of the investment IMO due to proximity.

I really fear for Alton Towers by the early 2030's due to a lack of public transport connections and shifting behaviours regarding private vehicle ownership by then once ICE vehicle productions stop and prices, taxes and energy costs increase to reduce private travel and distance driven by car.

I can genuinely forsee a time when rides get relocated from Towers to Thorpe if things don't improve. The next 5 years will be huge for AT to get things right.

Controversial sure, but I do not think the UK market can sustain Universal, Thorpe, Alton Towers, Blackpool Pleasure Beach, Flamingo Land, Chessington, Paultons Park etc.

Economically, removing London, the rest of the UK has a GDP equivalent to Mississippi. We are a poor nation relatively speaking, as hard as that is to admit, and this coming recession will hit very very hard.

The south, with it's higher economic output will survive well i.e Paultons, Thorpe and I do think Drayton Manor for Staffordshire will survive.

Blackpool has a location advantage, but it really needs to draw back in the families visiting the promenade with parity gate price tickets.

Flamingo Land is already more expensive than AT and BPB, I'm not sure how that will cope.

As for Chessington and Lego Land they will be additional benefactors of Universal. I think the kids parks will be fine - but older children, teenagers and thrill seekers will want to visit Universal and Thorpe Park more than anywhere else.

FWIW, if I was Merlin I’d be screaming at the government for the nearby railway at Alton to be reinstated back to CVR and then Leek to Stoke and Chessington to have it extended to closer to their entrance with a new station. Then get the bypass into Alton of Bamfords land finally.

Both easy enough and doable. Should have happened years ago.

Just another example of the country failing to invest in sensible ideas.

 

[Jimothy]

Detective hat firmly on today scouring the artwork for clues. I think many have said this already that what will be in this park will almost certainly not be found in any of the Florida parks. Most UK and EU tourists will overwhelmingly only ever visit the Orlando resort so Universal will be keen to not cannibalise those guests. That being said, I think we can look to Beijing as the most likely one to one comparison.

With the largest degree of certainty, I think we can deduce 3 areas/attractions - Minions/Illuminations land (looks identical to the one in Beijing), Jurassic World and WaterWorld. None of these attractions are directly stepping on Florida’s toes - rumor has it Jurassic Park is staying Jurassic Park at Islands of Adventure and will not be converted like in Hollywood and WaterWorld, whilst a very old and forgotten IP, is clearly still very popular as they just opened one in Beijing. Some are saying this could be a James Bond stunt show, but the amphitheater and surrounding area is identical to the WaterWorld buildings found elsewhere.

Other areas obviously are not so clear. I think the big green coaster is part of Jurassic World and not Wicked as some have suggested as there are no surrounding buildings reminiscent of anything in the movies and the coaster seems to be set in a dense jungle/forest area.

No idea what those two buildings are on the right of the waterfalls in the centre - they could be still part of Jurassic World, but the front one looks very colourful.

Next to that, I think that area is Shrek based on the fact that the building looks very similar to the Poison Apple from Shrek 2. The big building in the back is throwing me off, but it could be an indoor area like the Kung Fu Panda land in Beijing - could be themed on either IP?

The area people are saying is Amity Island i’m not convinced (as much as I’d like it to be) I think that showbuilding behind it is actually connected to the theatre-looking facade on the main street/entrance area. That area looks more like a garden to me (could be Paddington?)

The small area left of the main street seems most likely to be Paddington or Trolls if I had to guess. Doesn't look quite colourful enough for Trolls, although the attraction at the top has what looks like giant flowers in and around it. Could also be a giant pink teacup if you look closely.

Then the large blue coaster seems very likely Back to the Future based on the type of ride and the surrounding area which looks like the town square from Hill Valley. I think Dark Universe in Epic Universe has been a great testbed for building attractions on legacy IPs so we could see Universal moving in this direction going forward. Also don't rule out the ride being Fast and the Furious (please no!).

Harry Potter, James Bond and Lord of the Rings seem to be missing - I think HP is missing due to the heavy presence of that IP in Florida and I think Bond and LOTR being owned by other studios without previous rides being built and no formal deals announced might make these franchises contentious at this stage. I think Universal will want to stick with what they already have in their fold to reduce cost and risk and then launch them into the park once it is more established and profitable. I think Bond and LOTR especially will be incredibly popular so they’ll probably want to use these as big, showy expansion projects later down the line (don't show all your cards too soon).

Those are my thoughts anyway…

 

[Dobba]

Just announce the Flux Capacicoaster already.

 

[Dave]

FWIW, if I was Merlin I’d be screaming at the government for the nearby railway at Alton to be reinstated back to CVR and then Leek to Stoke and Chessington to have it extended to closer to their entrance with a new station. Then get the bypass into Alton of Bamfords land finally.

Both easy enough and doable. Should have happened years ago.

Just another example of the country failing to invest in sensible ideas.

That railway wouldn’t benefit Towers, it would be slower than driving and wouldn’t incentivise public transport as it would be a change at Stoke and a long journey after the main line.

Better if they invested in a good bus service from Stoke and Derby.

 

[Craig]

Just a reminder to please keep this discussion related to Universal as much as possible. When we get into hypothetical improvements to Alton Towers, that's a discussion much better placed in the dedicated Towers sub forums.

As an aside, we'll have some changes in the coming days to split discussion down on Universal into a few separate topics. Nothing too major at this stage as we don't want to overly dilute discussion, but just to allow things to flow a little easier and for people to be able to follow the discussion elements they're interested in.

 

[Blackrock]

I do agree, but I can see it being taken away from the BBC within 5 years and taken to another platform and rebooted.

It can’t be ‘taken away’. The BBC own it

 

[Ares]

Dr Who isn’t as troubled as the anti-woke brigade like to suggests, its live viewership has fallen about as much as all live TV has fallen, yet downloads are keeping pace.

I’m no fan of RTD but the anti-woke brigade massively exaggerate the trouble Who is in. Disney might drop it but I doubt BBC will, at worst they will rest it but it seems we are getting an area based on an old movie (Shrek) so it isn’t out of the realm of possibility to see Dr Who here. The bigger issue will be if Disney stick with Who they won’t want Universal having theme park rights.



I actually think it’s the other way around, I fear for Thorpe more than Towers. Thorpe can’t compete with Universal yet it’s very close to this new park. Towers has distance, a huge northern population who although will visit Universal at some point won’t do yearly trips, plus Towers has more development space than Thorpe has. Chessington is currently competing with Paultons but it seems to be getting the investment that Merlin would likely add to support it with Universal. If I’m honest however, I think Thorpe will just transition to an amusement park (almost already is) and go for big wow rides to tempt the punters.

Thinking Towers will close because of Universal is a very south east centric view of the UK population, hopefully it kicks into gear and makes more effort but it isn’t at risk of closing, Merlin have known this is likely for 18 months now and they have been refurbishing rides left right and centre so I doubt their strategy is to drop AT.

I'm from the North West for clarification.

Towers is a pain to get to for anyone south of Staffordshire with no direct public transportation, i.e the foreign visitors going to Universal Studios.

From a business background, Thorpe's proximity will work wonders. Discount mattress stores in the US are a great phenomenon of competitors setting up directly opposite or next to eachother to draw in more customers, plenty of studies and the same is seen here in the UK - DFS and SCS are always usually on the same retail park.

Most visitors would prefer to stay in a Hotel nearby and do both parks over 2 days.

Towers is isolated, not very close to a large population centre albeit being centred in the centre of the country pretty much. Which is neither here nor there.

From the South? Go to Universal, Thorpe, Chessington, Lego Land, Paultons Park.

From the midlands? You've got Alton Towers and Drayton Manor.

From the North of England or from Scotland? Flamingo Land, Blackpool Pleasure Beach.

Logistically speaking, if you're from anywhere above Lancashire going down to Alton Towers, you might as well drive another 2 hours on the motorway than the time you spend on back roads going to AT and get to Universal and Thorpe Park if you're already driving 3+ hours.

I love Towers, but if Merlin has to kill a park to save itself and go ALL IN on one thrill park, it's Thorpe over Towers every day of the week from a purely business POV.

 

[Blackrock]

Dr Who isn’t as troubled as the anti-woke brigade like to suggests, its live viewership has fallen about as much as all live TV has fallen, yet downloads are keeping pace.

I’m no fan of RTD but the anti-woke brigade massively exaggerate the trouble Who is in. Disney might drop it but I doubt BBC will, at worst they will rest it but it seems we are getting an area based on an old movie (Shrek) so it isn’t out of the realm of possibility to see Dr Who here. The bigger issue will be if Disney stick with Who they won’t want Universal having theme park rights.



I actually think it’s the other way around, I fear for Thorpe more than Towers. Thorpe can’t compete with Universal yet it’s very close to this new park. Towers has distance, a huge northern population who although will visit Universal at some point won’t do yearly trips, plus Towers has more development space than Thorpe has. Chessington is currently competing with Paultons but it seems to be getting the investment that Merlin would likely add to support it with Universal. If I’m honest however, I think Thorpe will just transition to an amusement park (almost already is) and go for big wow rides to tempt the punters.

Thinking Towers will close because of Universal is a very south east centric view of the UK population, hopefully it kicks into gear and makes more effort but it isn’t at risk of closing, Merlin have known this is likely for 18 months now and they have been refurbishing rides left right and centre so I doubt their strategy is to drop AT.

I agree, Towers has its location and its surrounding as its biggest net positive imo whilst also being a bit of a drag. It’s unique.

Thorpe is a six flags and always has been.

 

[Ares]

Just a reminder to please keep this discussion related to Universal as much as possible. When we get into hypothetical improvements to Alton Towers, that's a discussion much better placed in the dedicated Towers sub forums.

As an aside, we'll have some changes in the coming days to split discussion down on Universal into a few separate topics. Nothing too major at this stage as we don't want to overly dilute discussion, but just to allow things to flow a little easier and for people to be able to follow the discussion elements they're interested in.

Sorry!

 

[Blackrock]

I'm from the North West for clarification.

Towers is a pain to get to for anyone south of Staffordshire with no direct public transportation, i.e the foreign visitors going to Universal Studios.

From a business background, Thorpe's proximity will work wonders. Discount mattress stores in the US are a great phenomenon of competitors setting up directly opposite or next to eachother to draw in more customers, plenty of studies and the same is seen here in the UK - DFS and SCS are always usually on the same retail park.

Most visitors would prefer to stay in a Hotel nearby and do both parks over 2 days.

Towers is isolated, not very close to a large population centre albeit being centred in the centre of the country pretty much. Which is neither here nor there.

From the South? Go to Universal, Thorpe, Chessington, Lego Land, Paultons Park.

From the midlands? You've got Alton Towers and Drayton Manor.

From the North of England or from Scotland? Flamingo Land, Blackpool Pleasure Beach.

Logistically speaking, if you're from anywhere above Lancashire going down to Alton Towers, you might as well drive another 2 hours on the motorway than the time you spend on back roads going to AT and get to Universal and Thorpe Park if you're already driving 3+ hours.

I love Towers, but if Merlin has to kill a park to save itself and go ALL IN on one thrill park, it's Thorpe over Towers every day of the week from a purely business POV.

Alton is unique with its surroundings, it’s something money can’t buy and Disney try to replicate but Alton get it for free and it’s real.

It’s really not that difficult to get to Towers from the NW, you just drop onto the M6 all the way down the Stoke and go from there.

Alton towers is the crown jewel in Merlin’s British portfolio and tbh I can’t see that changing. They have everything they need really, they just need to improve it.

 

[Ares]

Of the two major coasters we can see - the Green Coaster I would take a guess at being a B&M Hypercoaster? The flux capacicoaster I would assume is an Intamin Multi-Launch?

Alton is unique with its surroundings, it’s something money can’t buy and Disney try to replicate but Alton get it for free and it’s real.

It’s really not that difficult to get to Towers from the NW, you just drop onto the M6 all the way down the Stoke and go from there.

Alton towers is the crown jewel in Merlin’s British portfolio and tbh I can’t see that changing. They have everything they need really, they just need to improve it.

Yes its fine from the NW, the point I was making is if you're a tourist visiting Universal GB - you are 1000X more likely to just visit Thorpe nearby than a ballache trip of coaches, buses, multiple trains or car rental to visit AT. Too much friction to get there for a casual tourist vs Thorpe, therefore if one park was to benefit and receive more investment - it has to be Thorpe.

Anyway, back to Universal before I get a telling off.

Just seen this post on X, 100% Hill Valley with the Theatre and other unique building shape in the corner!

So excited as a HUGE BTTF fan.

 

[Blackrock]

Yes its fine from the NW, the point I was making is if you're a tourist visiting Universal GB - you are 1000X more likely to just visit Thorpe nearby than a ballache trip of coaches, buses, multiple trains or car rental to visit AT. Too much friction to get there for a casual tourist vs Thorpe, therefore if one park was to benefit and receive more investment - it has to be Thorpe.

Anyway, back to Universal before I get a telling off.

That’s fair enough but if you live next to Alton Towers like me going straight down the a50 to east midland and straight down the M1 to Universal it’s not that much of an effort to go in the opposite direction to something that’s not six flags.

Also lastly what I will say is a 2 hours drive for us here in the UK is a lot, to someone from the US or the continent it’s barely commuting.

 

[Dave]

Yes its fine from the NW, the point I was making is if you're a tourist visiting Universal GB - you are 1000X more likely to just visit Thorpe nearby than a ballache trip of coaches, buses, multiple trains or car rental to visit AT. Too much friction to get there for a casual tourist vs Thorpe, therefore if one park was to benefit and receive more investment - it has to be Thorpe.

Anyway, back to Universal before I get a telling off.

None of the UK parks bar maybe Lego will pull in international Tourist trade, if you want an example of how your logic is flawed everyone thought Thorpe would get a tourism boost from international visitors during the London Olympics, it ended up having a bad season.

Even with Universal the UK parks will still be depending on domestic audiences for the most part. And the Towers catchment area, historic brand identity and its distance from Universal position it better than Thorpe as far as I can see, so from a business sense other than Lego I doubt Merlin will be pushing getting secondary visitation from Universal international visitors.

 

[Danscott22]

Just announce the Flux Capacicoaster already.

I mean they've got Velocicoaster and Decepticoaster so this could end up becoming a reality if it is themed to Back to the Future

 

[DiogoJ42]

It's criminal that name hasn't been used already, when you think about it.

 

[BSwiss]

The BTTF ride should have 2 stations with the options to go right-to-left (1985-1955) and left-to-right (1955-1985). The left queue and station themed as 1955 with accompanying soundtrack, and likewise the right station and queue themed as 1985. Three trains can slingshot between the two

 

[Benjsh]

Marty Mcfly-ing coaster

 

[dazza4783]

None of the UK parks bar maybe Lego will pull in international Tourist trade, if you want an example of how your logic is flawed everyone thought Thorpe would get a tourism boost from international visitors during the London Olympics, it ended up having a bad season.

To be fair though, in 2012 people were coming specifically for the Olympics, not theme park related. If people are coming from far and wide specifically for a new theme park, they are more likely to want to Check out other theme parks aswell. Think of the amount of footfall Legendia had has pretty much solely off the back of Energylandia opening. If parks make smart investments with new additions to coincide with universal opening they may do well out of it.

 

[Dave]

To be fair though, in 2012 people were coming specifically for the Olympics, not theme park related. If people are coming from far and wide specifically for a new theme park, they are more likely to want to Check out other theme parks aswell. Think of the amount of footfall Legendia had has pretty much solely off the back of Energylandia opening. If parks make smart investments with new additions to coincide with universal opening they may do well out of it.

Has Legendia had such an impact from Energylandia?, Yeah enthusiasts have felt the tug from Energylandia and put Legendia into their itinary but has it had any broader impact? We should avoid putting the same logic an enthusiasts uses and apply it to the broader population.

If you are a casual visitor to the UK you will add universal to your trip, if you are European you might decide to visit the UK because you like Universal and want to visit. How many visitors are going to come for Universal and want to add a couple of mid-level local parks to their trip? Not many and those that would be inclined (geeks) will also be keen to ride one of the most iconic inverts in the world and take the effort to get to Towers as much as Thorpe, but that’s going to be a Vanishingly small group of people for either park.

 

[Benjsh]

I'd say the London based parks might see some extra trade from international guests.

Towers isn't a straightforward journey at all though and would require hiring a car in most circumstances.