WanderingNortherner
TS Member
There’s another at J11 of the M1 being built, and now being built above ground so quicker to build
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[🌎 Universal GB] General Discussion
WanderingNortherner
TS Member
The Core Zone is subject to major archaeological works at the moment, can't see it being a quick process!
In terms of actually building the resort, its not due to start until the end of 2027.
We're in Enabling works and Grading now, Infrastructure Works to start later this year. With some Utility Connections to start in Q2 2026
Yea, but it also includes the West Gateway Zone and the Lake Zone. I can see the Lake Zone area taking the longest, the area is huge and they won't be in a rush to excavate.
Bowser
TS Member
The always popular with TS ThemePark WorldWide has made a video on how he thinks Universal will change the UK theme park industry.
One thing he suggested was the impact would likely be positive for other theme parks in the industry (as long as they invested and marketed appropriately). HIs main case for this was citing experiences in Florida visiting multiple parks. I've always disagreed with this as Florida is a unique destination people visit specifically for theme parks. It's like suggesting that people would visit multiple casinos if they were built in London just like they do in Las Vegas but i think enthusiasts sometimes get caught up in the bubble of their own hobby.
The other case he put forward was how Parc Asterix has grown since Disneyland Paris was built. I can only find attendance figures going back to 2006 but they appear somewhat stagnant until the late 2010's where they begin to accelerate till present day (excluding Covid obviously). That correlates with what i believe has been significant investment to the park but it also lines up over 20 years after Disney opened so i'm not sure it supports the argument that Universal will bring more visitors to UK parks. Asterix is also relatively close to DLP whereas you'd be very lucky to get from Universal to another theme park in 90 minutes, which further reinforces my belief that multi-park UK trips for tourists will remain a niche experience.
I do wonder how the next 5 years will play out. On the surface, it seems Paulton's and Chessington are investing the most currently. Whether that is to combat Universal or simply one another who can say. Who knows, perhaps we'll see Minecraft advertising in Bedford to entice people away...
From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11vhf3Wv_Zs
One thing he suggested was the impact would likely be positive for other theme parks in the industry (as long as they invested and marketed appropriately). HIs main case for this was citing experiences in Florida visiting multiple parks. I've always disagreed with this as Florida is a unique destination people visit specifically for theme parks. It's like suggesting that people would visit multiple casinos if they were built in London just like they do in Las Vegas but i think enthusiasts sometimes get caught up in the bubble of their own hobby.
The other case he put forward was how Parc Asterix has grown since Disneyland Paris was built. I can only find attendance figures going back to 2006 but they appear somewhat stagnant until the late 2010's where they begin to accelerate till present day (excluding Covid obviously). That correlates with what i believe has been significant investment to the park but it also lines up over 20 years after Disney opened so i'm not sure it supports the argument that Universal will bring more visitors to UK parks. Asterix is also relatively close to DLP whereas you'd be very lucky to get from Universal to another theme park in 90 minutes, which further reinforces my belief that multi-park UK trips for tourists will remain a niche experience.
I do wonder how the next 5 years will play out. On the surface, it seems Paulton's and Chessington are investing the most currently. Whether that is to combat Universal or simply one another who can say. Who knows, perhaps we'll see Minecraft advertising in Bedford to entice people away...
From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11vhf3Wv_Zs
Matt N
TS Member
It’s an interesting thing to ponder.
I agree with you somewhat on the point of foreign visitors descending upon the Merlin parks @Bowser. I don’t think London is a city that people associate with theme parks in the way that Orlando is, so outside of enthusiasts, I don’t see foreign tourists visiting the existing parks in large quantities. I guess the London parks could see a residual benefit depending on how Merlin capitalises, but I can’t see Alton Towers getting much of this benefit at all. There’s no way that huge quantities of foreign tourists are going to put up with patchy trains to Uttoxeter or carve their way through the country lanes of Staffordshire in a hire car.
One way in which I think the existing parks could possibly benefit, however, is from renewed interest in theme parks among the domestic market. The theme park industry has taken a battering in this country over the last decade or so, with the Smiler crash and the like turning the public mood very negative. With Universal being a really exciting development that will inject some positivity into the industry, I think the existing parks could benefit from the domestic market regaining an interest in theme parks, in the same way as Year of the Rollercoaster grew the industry in 1994.
Primarily, though, I think Universal’s effect on the existing parks depends most strongly on how Merlin responds.
My personal stance is that Merlin would be best trying to draw a dividing line between themselves and Universal as opposed to trying to “compete”, as many would like them to. For this reason, I think Merlin would be fools to try and go premium. If Merlin ups the price point and goes for an upper-class premium product, that puts them directly in Universal’s firing line, and I think this is a battle they are almost guaranteed to lose. Universal has bigger bucks and bigger IPs, and as much as some may argue that “quality sells”, pulling power and brand appeal are also crucial, and Universal will have these in far greater quantities than Merlin could ever muster while also delivering a product of immense quality.
There are many guests, though, who can’t or won’t pay Universal’s prices. Make no mistake, Universal will be expensive. Day tickets will likely be in three figures, annual passes will likely be the better part of £500, and the parking fee alone is being mooted at £35. While this is substantially less costly for a Brit than airfare to Orlando, there are still many who can’t justify these prices, or at very least can’t justify them on a regular basis. This, I feel, is where Merlin comes in. If Merlin pitches at a lower price point and tries to offer excellent value for money, I think they could pull many people in with the proposition of a “major theme park” experience for a cheaper price point. People may not be able to justify Universal annually or regularly, but if Merlin offers a good experience and vastly cheaper prices than Universal, I think many consumers could justify visiting the parks on the grounds that they’re “way cheaper and still really good”. Price is a legitimate selling point and dividing line, and when Universal are bound to go top-dollar, Merlin could use this to their advantage.
And while people can moan about the parks, I’d argue they’re already doing this to an extent; the Merlin Annual Pass, particularly in the lower cost bands, offers quite incredible bang for buck. That pass offers 12 months of (almost) unlimited admission to 4 major theme parks and a great number of midway attractions countrywide, very often for less than £200 per person. In terms of raw visit quantity potential, that is quite incredible value for money that I don’t think Universal will come close to offering.
I agree with you somewhat on the point of foreign visitors descending upon the Merlin parks @Bowser. I don’t think London is a city that people associate with theme parks in the way that Orlando is, so outside of enthusiasts, I don’t see foreign tourists visiting the existing parks in large quantities. I guess the London parks could see a residual benefit depending on how Merlin capitalises, but I can’t see Alton Towers getting much of this benefit at all. There’s no way that huge quantities of foreign tourists are going to put up with patchy trains to Uttoxeter or carve their way through the country lanes of Staffordshire in a hire car.
One way in which I think the existing parks could possibly benefit, however, is from renewed interest in theme parks among the domestic market. The theme park industry has taken a battering in this country over the last decade or so, with the Smiler crash and the like turning the public mood very negative. With Universal being a really exciting development that will inject some positivity into the industry, I think the existing parks could benefit from the domestic market regaining an interest in theme parks, in the same way as Year of the Rollercoaster grew the industry in 1994.
Primarily, though, I think Universal’s effect on the existing parks depends most strongly on how Merlin responds.
My personal stance is that Merlin would be best trying to draw a dividing line between themselves and Universal as opposed to trying to “compete”, as many would like them to. For this reason, I think Merlin would be fools to try and go premium. If Merlin ups the price point and goes for an upper-class premium product, that puts them directly in Universal’s firing line, and I think this is a battle they are almost guaranteed to lose. Universal has bigger bucks and bigger IPs, and as much as some may argue that “quality sells”, pulling power and brand appeal are also crucial, and Universal will have these in far greater quantities than Merlin could ever muster while also delivering a product of immense quality.
There are many guests, though, who can’t or won’t pay Universal’s prices. Make no mistake, Universal will be expensive. Day tickets will likely be in three figures, annual passes will likely be the better part of £500, and the parking fee alone is being mooted at £35. While this is substantially less costly for a Brit than airfare to Orlando, there are still many who can’t justify these prices, or at very least can’t justify them on a regular basis. This, I feel, is where Merlin comes in. If Merlin pitches at a lower price point and tries to offer excellent value for money, I think they could pull many people in with the proposition of a “major theme park” experience for a cheaper price point. People may not be able to justify Universal annually or regularly, but if Merlin offers a good experience and vastly cheaper prices than Universal, I think many consumers could justify visiting the parks on the grounds that they’re “way cheaper and still really good”. Price is a legitimate selling point and dividing line, and when Universal are bound to go top-dollar, Merlin could use this to their advantage.
And while people can moan about the parks, I’d argue they’re already doing this to an extent; the Merlin Annual Pass, particularly in the lower cost bands, offers quite incredible bang for buck. That pass offers 12 months of (almost) unlimited admission to 4 major theme parks and a great number of midway attractions countrywide, very often for less than £200 per person. In terms of raw visit quantity potential, that is quite incredible value for money that I don’t think Universal will come close to offering.
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I feel like the biggest proportion of visitors will be the foreign tourists. In particular the affluent Chinese, as they already come over en masse for all the London royalty tourism stuff and spend an absolute fortune on the designer things.. Also the seemingly endless Spanish school trips that you stumble over in London.
If Merlin were sensible they would price themselves at a more "reasonable" point however I can fully imagine the thought process of "well if they charge 3 figures, so can we".
If Merlin were sensible they would price themselves at a more "reasonable" point however I can fully imagine the thought process of "well if they charge 3 figures, so can we".
havaska
TS Member
I think having Universal will benefit the UK theme park industry in other ways people haven’t thought about.
There will need to be a lot of businesses available to support Universal; roller coaster and ride maintenance, theming etc.
This will mean either an expansion and increase in the skills of existing businesses or new ones to support this park.
These businesses will then have transferable skills and products available to the whole UK theme park industry.
There will need to be a lot of businesses available to support Universal; roller coaster and ride maintenance, theming etc.
This will mean either an expansion and increase in the skills of existing businesses or new ones to support this park.
These businesses will then have transferable skills and products available to the whole UK theme park industry.
jon81uk
TS Member
I don't see one day tickets being three figures. They will be more than other UK parks, but I think its going to be more like ÂŁ80. Universal Hollywood is $109 (ÂŁ79) to $154 (ÂŁ112) for a day ticket. Six Flags Magic Mountain is $55-65 (ÂŁ40-47), so a little more than the UK Merlin parks. I don't think Florida is comparable because its a multi-day resort.
So maybe we could see prices similar to Hollywood, getting over ÂŁ110 on peak days, but I do think a lot of people would be put off by prices that high, at least in the first season I can't see them going over ÂŁ100, then maybe introducing some higher peak days.
I doubt the foreign school trips would choose Universal as part of their trip, they come to see London and its history, so attractions which support it like Madame Tussauds make sense, but not something largely based on American films. There will be international visitors coming for the theme park, but I expect those tourists who are coming to see London are less likely to be bother about a theme park.
There's an opportunity here for the Parks to benefit from Universal, but it requires investment, time and effort. If Merlin actually stops thinking about expanding their range of Legolands and Midways and actually put some care into the UK Parks - they can take advantage of it. But that would mean going beyond another IP or new ride/attractions, it'll mean a complete glow-up of the parks, improved operations, improving the food options, bringing back entertainment etc etc.
But if they just do what they are doing now, they'll languish in mediocrity and will find getting out of that hole very difficult.
Paulton's have entirely the right way of going about this. They're not trying to make National waves with some big IP, they're adding and expanding and improving, but they're also doing everything else right. I can see Paulton's doing very well when Universal rock up.
But if they just do what they are doing now, they'll languish in mediocrity and will find getting out of that hole very difficult.
Paulton's have entirely the right way of going about this. They're not trying to make National waves with some big IP, they're adding and expanding and improving, but they're also doing everything else right. I can see Paulton's doing very well when Universal rock up.
Dave
TS Founding Member
I would guess the majority of the archeological survey will be geophysical, and just trenching areas of interest. Won’t take forever.
I think whilst parks should be wary of the competition, especially when it’s coming in the form of the giant that is Universal, it should make little impact to their decisions, just be the best version of yourselves, form your own reputations and the rest will fall into place.
Which is kind of what I think Paultons are doing, just continuing to grow on their own trajectory. Meanwhile, Merlin’s strong recent pivot to IPs potentially just suggest trying to change their identity as a response.
Which is kind of what I think Paultons are doing, just continuing to grow on their own trajectory. Meanwhile, Merlin’s strong recent pivot to IPs potentially just suggest trying to change their identity as a response.
Wandering Northerner posted a map of the archaeological areas and there is alot of excavation to be done. Let me go find it.
From: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid0a9gd17vNyYdRNRgheKo2rFevdGHGF9fkWwVQpRwUwLitRgf6QRzEuBch4Unw9Nkl&id=61557578305782