What Next?

[Secret Weapon]

I don't remember hearing JW's comments regarding Horizon... (other than telling Lift Hills and Thrills that it "could be" SW9)

Regarding the surf coaster: I'd assumed that it was a family-type ride that may have been better suited to Chessington or Legoland, but perhaps I am wrong.

I wish in hindsight that the 2012 B&M wing coaster had been built at AT rather than Thorpe Park because (A) I think it would have been a better fit for AT's woody terrain, and (B) JW seemed enthusiastic about the idea of building a wing coaster at AT in his book, whereas he (and B&M) said in Making Thorpe Park that building one at Thorpe Park was a bad idea.

If Thorpe Park had built Hyperia instead of The Swarm back in 2012, then it would've given AT the opportunity to build Britain's first wing coaster* in either 2013 (instead of The Smiler) or at some point afterwards (instead of Wicker Man, or perhaps an additional new ride after COVID).

(*In my alternate history, Mandrill Mayhem never would have been built)

 

[JAperson]

Regarding the surf coaster: I'd assumed that it was a family-type ride that may have been better suited to Chessington or Legoland, but perhaps I am wrong.

It's very much not, It's B&M's modern take on a stand up coaster, the 'seats' move slightly and they're launched (although I'm sure they'd sell you a lift hill version if you really wanted one). Only one currently open is Pipeline at SeaWorld Orlando. RCDB: https://rcdb.com/20042.htm

I wish in hindsight that the 2012 B&M wing coaster had been built at AT rather than Thorpe Park because (A) I think it would have been a better fit for AT's woody terrain, and (B) JW seemed enthusiastic about the idea of building a wing coaster at AT in his book, whereas he (and B&M) said in Making Thorpe Park that building one at Thorpe Park was a bad idea.

Towers might have lots of land, but it also has lots of restrictions, a main one being really old trees that cannot just be removed. Wing coasters have massive clearances, because of the really wide trains, and so to make a good layout you'd have to remove lots of trees at Towers which just wasn't going to work. I suppose you could have created a decent launched wing, but it would still have to be relatively short.

If Thorpe Park had built Hyperia instead of The Swarm back in 2012, then it would've given AT the opportunity to build Britain's first wing coaster* in either 2013 (instead of The Smiler) or at some point afterwards (instead of Wicker Man, or perhaps an additional new ride after COVID).

Whether Thorpe should have just built the UK's tallest earlier is probably arguable, but I think it would have been a more sensible pick than spending so much money on Ghost Train (which was far more expensive I believe?). But, 2012 was a bad year for theme park attendance across the board, with Camelot closing at the end of that season too.

In terms of Towers, you have to remember that people expect, and Towers need to deliver, far more unique experiences and brands than what they can get away with at Thorpe especially. This doesn't necessarily mean a ride has to be a world first, but it can use clever thematic elements, particularly looking at Wicker Man here. It had what Nick Varney apparently used to call the 'killer image' in that you could look at it instantly, with big bob in the centre, and go wow. It was, I believe, an incredibly good idea marketing wise. Towers have lots of future options in this regard, they don't have to use new protype ride systems, or new worlds first elements to get their unique image.

 

[Secret Weapon]

Wing coasters have massive clearances, because of the really wide trains, and so to make a good layout you'd have to remove lots of trees at Towers which just wasn't going to work. I suppose you could have created a decent launched wing, but it would still have to be relatively short.

This might sound strange, but could you argue that Oblivion is kind of a wing coaster of sorts, given that some of the riders hang off the edge of the track (although obviously not as much as in a 'true' wing coaster)? - see photo below

I remember hearing that John Wardley developed the concept for Air after seeing Nemesis in action and wondering whether the riders could be tilted further back, and so it wouldn't surprise me if the wing coaster concept came from observing Oblivion in action

(I myself have felt in the past that the outer seats function as a de-facto wing coaster of sorts, after having ridden both)

https://www.altontowers.com/media/pdkiv2mx/1.jpg

 

[JAperson]

This might sound strange, but could you argue that Oblivion is kind of a wing coaster of sorts, given that some of the riders hang off the edge of the track (although obviously not as much as a 'true' wing coaster)? - see photo below

I get what your saying, but not really, wing coasters have you exposed, nothing beneath you or above you, making you feel entirely exposed, that sensation is not given by Oblivion, it doesn't even have floorless trains like lots of newer dives.

I remember hearing that John Wardley developed the concept for Air after seeing Nemesis in action and wondering whether the riders could be tilted further back, and so it wouldn't surprise me if the wing coaster concept came from observing Oblivion in action

I think it was more that Wardley wanted to create the sensation of flight, and we know he worked very closely with B&M on that. He did also work with B&M, although I suspect less closely on their first wing coaster at Gardaland https://rcdb.com/9309.htm
This wasn't the first wing coaster ever though, just the first B&M, more perfected version, with Intamin (https://rcdb.com/3430.htm) and Arrow/S&S building 4D wing coasters before (https://rcdb.com/750.htm).
I really don't think we will see a wing at Towers though, in any form, as the clearances would mean it would just not be a very good ride. I think we are more likely to see something totally different, Merlin do like working with B&M so we could see another protype, that wouldn't shock me, but it will be something else.

 

[Secret Weapon]

One minor point to bear in mind: John Wardley said in his book that people like working with B&M because their products are excellent, and - also - they enjoy working with their management.

However: he wrote this before the B&M founders had retired, and so I'm not sure whether this applies?

Regarding Air: I always thought that Nemesis was the essential breakthrough that enabled Air to become possible, as it meant that riders could be positioned beneath the track for the first time (which is essential for a flying coaster to work properly).

 

[JAperson]

However: he wrote this before the B&M founders had retired, and so I'm not sure whether this applies?

I don't think they have retired but either way, I'm sure their service quality is still excellent, and despite some reports of 'rattles' with new B&M's I'm sure they'll figure out what it is, and get it sorted, as it's not great for their incredibly good reputation of smooth rides.

Regarding Air: I always thought that Nemesis was the essential breakthrough that enabled Air to become possible, as it meant that riders could be positioned beneath the track for the first time (which is essential for a flying coaster to work properly).

Nemesis wasn't the first B&M invert though, just the first outside the US. Although you are right that without the development of the invert, B&M would not have been able to develop the flying model. Anyway this is somewhat off topic, I think Merlin would be more than happy to work with B&M on a future Towers project, as they've had several incredibly success coasters from them, most of which are generally reliable, people eaters (if operated correctly). Merlin have worked with them recently too, even on what you could consider unique concepts, Mandril at Chessington being B&M's first shuttle coaster, as an example (and the first shuttle wing too I believe?).

 

[Ash]

Broadly speaking the variety seems to be able to come in multiple categories:

Seating position:
Sat above, sat below, sat alongside, lying above, lying below, lying alongside

Track:
Steel, wooden, hybrid, lift hill, launch, multi circuit, multi launch

Trick track:
Drop, spin, see-saw, tilt

Ride car:
Fixed, swinging, spinning

Layout:
Inverting, non-inverting, vertical

Given Alton are fairly well stocked in most of these, if I was to pick one direction for them it would be some form of laterally spinning coaster, yes I know there’s spinball but given we’ve seen the likes of Guardians of the Galaxy, Galacticoaster(s), Uncharted and likely Minecraft in recent times.

I’ve thought for a while this would have been perfect for project horizon, preferably with an original steam punk theme and multiple circuits. Afaik that would be a worlds first? I just cannot see the park letting such a rare planning application lapse in such an important area of the park.

I think the coaster wars as we knew them are broadly over and the future will be about the integration of multiple ideas to deliver experience/narratively for guests (see Wickerman) Alton could be in a good place to benefit from that if they pull their fingers out.

It’s not necessarily only what I think the park needs (high capacity rides, flat rides, indoor flat rides, shooter attraction, walkthrough attractions, shows and yes 4D & flying theatres) the park is crying out for, but the days of 2 attractions in a season feel long gone.

It’s worth adding, Plopsaland De Panne, a park with roughly 1.4m visitors are adding a new indoor bowling alley, flying theatre, new miniature train station and a large themed indoor restaurant. For one season.

Alas we will see I

 

[Maelstrom]

I think a Mack extreme spinner or the Intamin equivalent (the new fast and furious coaster at Universal) would be a model that Alton would go for- Could work within their height restrictions and unique in the UK, making it very marketable -launched spinning coaster that goes upside down.

However the fact the park are desperate for attractions that meet the family/ family thrill level this wouldn’t be right for the next investment, unless they add additional family attractions over next few years before the next major investment. Plus I think we still likely we will still see project horizon in some form as the next coaster project. I have often thought project horizon will be an Intamin multi dimension coaster but use the straddle style car trains which they offer for the ride. Ie a smaller indoor version of Universals Hagrids style ride. Setting it apart from Chessingtons new coaster.

 

[Secret Weapon]

For what it's worth, I've heard speculation that AT possibly can't have an LSM type ride until the power grid is improved

Intamin told Attraction Source last year (in their YouTube / Thorpe Park presentation) that hydraulic launches such as Rita were created in part because many parks couldn't handle the peak power required for an electric launch

 

[JAperson]

I think a Mack extreme spinner or the Intamin equivalent (the new fast and furious coaster at Universal) would be a model that Alton would go for- Could work within their height restrictions and unique in the UK, making it very marketable -launched spinning coaster that goes upside down.

However the fact the park are desperate for attractions that meet the family/ family thrill level this wouldn’t be right for the next investment, unless they add additional family attractions over next few years before the next major investment. Plus I think we still likely we will still see project horizon in some form as the next coaster project. I have often thought project horizon will be an Intamin multi dimension coaster but use the straddle style car trains which they offer for the ride. Ie a smaller indoor version of Universals Hagrids style ride. Setting it apart from Chessingtons new coaster.

I like this idea, and agree it could be very marketable. I think you are right though that the next major investment will be family thrill, and I agree that's probably the right direction. I do think however the next investment after that needs to be thrill, so that they can keep across both markets. Thinking back their last big thrill coaster was in 2013, and so by the time they get arrowed to it, it'll likely be 10 years. Whatever they do for their next actual thrill investment needs to be innovative (at least to at UK audience), and well marketed.

For what it's worth, I've heard speculation that AT possibly can't have an LSM type ride until the power grid is improved

Intamin told Attraction Source last year (in their YouTube / Thorpe Park presentation) that hydraulic launches such as Rita were created in part because many parks couldn't handle the peak power required for an electric launch

This could well be true, but if they were going to spend the money to add one I'm sure there are solutions. I imagine Towers themselves want to increase their usage of solar, things like that could well help with energy efficiencies, although not likely enough.
There are other options for launch technology though, and I do have a suggestion that would fit all the bars that have been mentioned recently.
Intamin hot racer
innovative and unique to the UK audience - we don't have a single rail in the UK at all
could be launched without using lSMs/LIMs - they seem to use tire preppeld launches which could well give an interesting sensation.
Could be duelling - something Towers could absolutely do with, and would be brilliant for them
Likely could get a two across version - I am sure Intamin would make a two across version if that is what the park wanted (absolutely would be the right decision)
Easy to market - surely something that would be seen as this unique could be marketed easily.
The original one of these is in Sydney, Australia: https://rcdb.com/18808.htm

 

[spotweld]

B&M will probably come crawling back. The sit-down family coaster would be awesome.