Why has the Labour Party struggled so much in recent UK elections?

[BigT]

But as I said England hasn’t voted for a left wing government for 50 years and that’s unlikely to change anytime soon.
The reason Biden got in was more to do with the Anti Trump movement than any of his policies.

 

[Benzin]

Things won't change unless FPTP system is gone.

That won't happen because the Tories know it would never result with them being in charge.

Quotes from people in Hartlepool blaming Labour for removing of police stations and other local services. That is the best tactic the Tories have done, bang the drum about Labour's failings when they haven't been in charge for 11 years.

 

[shakey]

Also, I don’t necessarily think that Britain is a right-leaning country that would never vote for a left-wing Labour Party. The USA is arguably quite similarly politically leaning to Britain, and they recently voted in a very left-wing president in Joe Biden (at least, a number of Biden’s policies are very left-wing, anyway). Even with Biden’s left-wing policy, he still has a reasonable approval rate (well over 50%) 4 months into his presidency.

Left in America would still be considered to be on the Right here. In political terms Biden probably sits to the right of the Tories because the USA is an extremely capitalist country with very little social responsibility.


I think it will be very difficult for a left wing party to win another UK election. Blair won because he moved to the middle ground and persuaded the Tory voter to switch to Labour.

Blair also bought the Scottish vote in 1997 with the promise of devolution. But this effectively shot the Labour party in the foot and has now handed the SNP the vote in Scotland, therefore making it increasingly difficult for Labour to return to power.

I think there is plenty of evidence that socialism doesn't work, but if you look at America then full on capitalism isn't the answer either. The answer is capitalism with a social responsibility, or in other words centrist politics.

I just had 2 very long days on election duty. And to my surprise only one person came into the poling station without a mask on, and I could hear him breathing 100 yards away so I didn't even bother asking if he was exempt!

The count was as drawn out and laborious as ever but nice to get out and meet people.

Glad its over now

 

[Matt N]

But as I said England hasn’t voted for a left wing government for 50 years and that’s unlikely to change anytime soon.
The reason Biden got in was more to do with the Anti Trump movement than any of his policies.

But Biden still seems reasonably popular; most Americans seem to approve of his left-wing agenda, based on the polls.

Left in America would still be considered to be on the Right here. In political terms Biden probably sits to the right of the Tories because the USA is an extremely capitalist country with very little social responsibility.

In fairness, Biden has recently unveiled a very radical COVID recovery plan, and he also has some other more left-wing policies. The Democrat Party has also tried to pass some more left-wing policies in the past, such as free healthcare and stricter gun laws. I’ll admit that America is perhaps somewhat more politically polarised than Britain, though, and their right is perhaps further right than our right (if that makes any sense?).

I have another theory as to why Labour could be struggling; could it be because the Conservative Party has moved further to the left in recent years? With some of the policies in his manifesto and his COVID response, amongst other things, you could almost argue that Boris is a Labour politician in blue, to a certain degree. He seems to be really driven to put money into public services and local communities and let the benefits trickle up, and his manifesto talks a lot about “building back better”, and “levelling up local communities”, which sounds to me like bottom-up economics, whereas right-wing leaders tend to usually focus more on top-down economics, where they fund large infrastructure projects and let the benefits trickle down to the community.

While he certainly isn’t as left-wing as the likes of Jeremy Corbyn and his allies in the Labour Party, I’d certainly argue that Boris is centrist, possibly even centre-left, to a certain degree. As much as he did spearhead Brexit, which is rightly or wrongly considered a right-wing policy by many, he has quite a lot of more socialist policies.

 

[emmerse2891]

I don't vote Tory, but must admit over time they have shifted more socially left/central - I don't believe they are as racist/homophobic as people make out anymore.

Also many people in the UK and US are financially conservative - they may be quiet socially liberal, but vote for their businesses, livelihoods, think about their kids futures etc.

Labour need to do the same - move a little more right/centrally - as they have got a bit extreme or 'perceived' extreme! The anti-Semitism accusations and issues didn't help either!

Humans are inherently selfish and will look out for their own interests first, either the short or long way round..... and it's working with that, and semi acceptance of that which is key instead of battling it bitterly.

 

[AstroDan]

When you hear folks from Hartlepool on the news saying that they blame Labour for a lack of investment in Hartlepool - what can be done? 11 years of the Conservatives at National Government, cutting funds to local councils and a programme of austerity - yet people blame Labour in that area. It's incredible but that is the reality. Add in the tribalism created by Brexit across the UK, and you have a scenario where places like Hartlepool are going to go big-in for the Tories.

It shows the argument has been totally lost in places like Hartlepool.

Labour and Kier Starmer need to rise out of this pandemic with a picture of Britain and make it clear the damage that has been caused to public services since 2010. KS is a meticulous speaker - listening to him at PMQs and he carefully picks apart Boris and Co. with ease - but that doesn't resonate with the general public, who would probably prefer someone to go out all guns blazing attack.

I find it amazing that after a decade of austerity, the Brexit divide, a pandemic with some of the worst deaths in the world - people are happier to vote Conservative than ever.

Brexit has played into their hands just beautifully and will continue to do so for now at least.

 

[Ted]

It's to do with a lot of the youth vote as well. People under the age of 30 (possibly even 40 or 50) love Corbyn and genuinely supported him because of his policies. During the years Corbyn was the party leader, Labour increased their membership dramatically to around 500K (iirc) and in 2017 gain seats in uni towns like Canterbury and was vital in keeping some like Newcastle-Under-Lyme. The Tories meanwhile have a majority of elderly people in their group and were nervous about Labour's rise under Corbyn because of their strong relationship with the youth.

Starmer on the other hand, does not resonate with the youth in the same way. People my age just see him as a diet tory and sit on the fence and not tackle issues the same way Corbyn does. Also as others have mentioned, Starmer doesn't have a sense of direction and most people just see him as a genetic politician. At least Corbyn with his left wing views and policies did, whether you were a fan of him or not.

 

[AstroDan]

Thing is, Labour blew the last election under Corbyn - and they're continuing to blow council elections under Starmer.

It's not exactly a ringing endorsement of either right now.

Honestly - Starmer *has* to come out of this pandemic period fighting against the lasting effect Tory cuts have had on our public services.

 

[Ted]

Thing is, Labour blew the last election under Corbyn - and they're continuing to blow council elections under Starmer.

If anything this actually highlights the major divide in the party.

In 2019 they kept calling that election the "Brexit Election" and the Tories had their stance on leaving. Labour though tried to please everyone by promising a 2nd referendum because the party had/has a strong mixture of remainers and leavers. In the end, it didn't please anyone and the leavers mostly voted Tory or Brexit Party because they were fed up and finally wanted guarantee that they would leave, and remainers had more trust in the likes of the Lib Dems or the Greens.

Put it this way, the party has so many demographics is difficult to get everyone on their own side and some people will go with their own principles.

 

[Rick]

Seems quite odd people talk about Labour as if it's an electoral force on par with the Tories, it's not. It's just the party most likely to get into power when people are intermittently bored of the Tories and they're offering a credible alternative.

Thatcher, Thatcher, Thatcher, Major, Blair, Blair, Blair, Cameron, Cameron, May, Johnson

 

[Vik]

The recent local elections, and the by election should be a wake up call for Labour. Usually around this amount time since a general election, any government usually takes a bit of a battering at the polls as a sort of protest vote, but that seemingly hasn't happened here.

Starmer has completely failed to bring the government to account time and time again, simply going along with what they want or abstaining on votes, thus giving them what they want. So the government get a free ride pretty much and failure to hold them to account means the general populous are blind to how much they actually get away with.

Labour usually have a losing battle on their hands with a predominantly right of centre press, but instead of capitalising on using social media to their advantage and put out positive messages, instead we have had years of cheap petty insults and negativity pretty much demeaning anyone who isn't a labour voter as nothing short of Satan.

I'm not a Tory voter, but when I see repeated messages belittling anyone who does vote for them or belittling anyone who had concerns over the EU and the direction it was taken as little Englanders it comes across as having simply lost the battle and given in, and makes politics a toxic subject. It certainly makes it less likely I would consider voting for Labour in the future, and there are very few other options available which could make a difference under our current voting system.

Corbyn had some good ideas, but I think he became to much of a cult like figure and that distracted from what the Labour Party stood for, and still does to this day. It also seemed to coincide with the negativity and belittling of people who aren't labour supporters, seemingly led by Momentum, and group which I like to some degree, but they really need to change their stance with their negativity and demonising people who disagree with them on social media and try to engage in a much more positive way instead.

Will Labour win again under our archaic FPTP system? Yes they will, but it will be another 10 years before they do, and only then if they change and challenge their efforts in to creating a more positive image of politics and left of centre ideas. It can be done, just needs a lot of hard work and patience. What we don't want is another Blair type victory which was the same old same old with some fancy packaging.

Sadly though, I see the continued use of social media to belittle and demonise people in an attempt to stifle debate rather than use it as an advantage. Other parties also use the same tricks too, but they have the vast majority of the press on their side too so can easily spin negativity in to something positive.

Bojo isn't going anywhere soon. There were suggestions late last year that he would probably leave sometime this summer before he is forced too and that he was too toxic for the Tory party, but with the recent local elections and the by elections success I think it is pretty clear he isn't going anywhere soon and will probably be leading us in to the next election too, with maybe the likes of Hancock being the sacrificial lamb for Covid.

 

[AstroDan]

After a decade of cuts caused by reductions to local authority budgets - my local authority, Cannock Chase District Council, has gone Conservative for the first time since its creation in 1973.

Unsure quite who people blame for cuts to services. Apparently not the Tories?

 

[emmerse2891]

I'm not 100% sure Labour would necessarily have done any better preventing cuts, its all a case of whose in power at a certain time, and I get so confused with the 'that was started in XYZ gov under XYZ leader and XYZ got the brunt of it etc etc.
the best we can do is pressure and petition whichever power is in Gov to rethink cuts etc etc

 

[emmerse2891]

It's to do with a lot of the youth vote as well. People under the age of 30 (possibly even 40 or 50) love Corbyn and genuinely supported him because of his policies.

Hmmm I know a lot of young(er) people who couldn't stand him including labor part members, or at least liked him to start with then went off him.... that was his problem really

Corbin was too extreme and Starmer like you say is too Tory-lite ..... we need a solid for-the-people mid-left leader.

 

[Matt N]

It would appear that Boris has certainly been galvanised by his recent victories; he’s aiming to stay PM for a decade or more, topping the 11 years Margaret Thatcher spent in power: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-eyes-decade-in-power-5p8hfd72p
EDIT: Here’s a non paywalled link: https://apple.news/A77b85kn2RtimrMC7DhPxJw

 

[Andrew]

The best thing the Labour Party could do is to split and have one side as the Left wing, socialist party and the other side the more centre, “modest” party.

As it stands, the party is divided. It has been for years and years.

The argument that Labour had gone too far left and had lost touch with “traditional” voters (using the term traditional loosely as I believe that’s just a cover up word for the Blair voters- Labour was and should be a left wing party imo) has been blown away as we’ve seen Labour council seats lost to the Greens, not the Tories.

Obviously there’s an identity crisis. A lack of strong leadership, not stance of Brexit and no clear direction of political ideology hasn’t helped this current Labour Party.

It’s been like this for a while. The UK is a right leaning country, hence why the Tories don’t have to do much work to win elections. I mean, they can cause the deaths of over 100,000 people and still win so that tells you everything.

Ah well... Standard austerity and poverty for us all yet again and it won’t change any time soon

 

[AstroDan]

It doesn't really matter what the Conservatives do, people are still voting for them.

What matters is how the Labour Party responds and what they say. Brexit has been a major headache for them. The Tories were quickly re-badged as the party of 'leave' for Boris' election, which has served them well - and continues to do so. C-19 is also a major headache for them - either just routinely attack the government, or attempt to work in some sort of national unity. Well, the latter didn't work did it.

People have short memories, too - hence why the massive cuts to services across E&W in the last decade no longer affects how people vote. Very few political parties should still be in power after 11 years like this, not least growing in popularity. My local council has just turned blue, in spite of the fact Westminster cuts have meant the council have had real budget issues over the past few years. But people don't care about that, or don't realise.

Interesting how Wales is so Labour, though.

 

[Matt N]

Another thing I find intriguing is how while Labour arguably used to be the party of the working class and the Conservative Party arguably used to be the party of the upper class, the tables almost seem to have turned in that regard. In recent elections, Labour has made gains in many more affluent areas, such as London and the South East, which you’d traditionally think of as prime Conservative areas, while the Conservatives have made gains in less affluent areas, such as the Midlands and the North, which were formerly Labour strongholds. Did Brexit really cause that much of a shift?

Politics can be so interesting!

 

[BigT]

It doesn't really matter what the Conservatives do, people are still voting for them.

What matters is how the Labour Party responds and what they say. Brexit has been a major headache for them. The Tories were quickly re-badged as the party of 'leave' for Boris' election, which has served them well - and continues to do so. C-19 is also a major headache for them - either just routinely attack the government, or attempt to work in some sort of national unity. Well, the latter didn't work did it.

People have short memories, too - hence why the massive cuts to services across E&W in the last decade no longer affects how people vote. Very few political parties should still be in power after 11 years like this, not least growing in popularity. My local council has just turned blue, in spite of the fact Westminster cuts have meant the council have had real budget issues over the past few years. But people don't care about that, or don't realise.

Interesting how Wales is so Labour, though.

The problem with saying people don’t care about budget cuts is what services are they not getting because of them?
My bins still get collected, my village street lights are still on, library and leisure centres are still open and schools are still taking in pupils even though the population has risen by over 5 million in the last 15 years.
For me I don’t see any difference so it must be a lot of money was being wasted before.

Also the problem for Labour is the “middle class” is now the largest proportion of voters so will always vote for a slightly right of centre party and not socialists, what was it John Prescott once said? “We are all middle class now”.

 

[AstroDan]

The problem with saying people don’t care about budget cuts is what services are they not getting because of them?
My bins still get collected, my village street lights are still on, library and leisure centres are still open and schools are still taking in pupils even though the population has risen by over 5 million in the last 15 years.
For me I don’t see any difference so it must be a lot of money was being wasted before.
.

You make a good point, as much as I think you are being naive.

I'll give you some examples. In Staffordshire, the council made the decision that they wanted to remove the Local Education Authority. As a result, pretty much every school in the county is now an academy - effectively out of LA control and extremely fragmented - even though the Westminster government made a U-turn on academies some years ago. But local councils are doing that bidding for them. Any schools that remain under the control of the LA are in the process of converting because the LA has no ability to support schools anymore. This sort of thing hasn't made much in the media, and so people don't realise it's happened. Other things include how some local parks have been sold off to the private sector, and the operation of many local services such as leisure centres, bin collections and more are now just contracted out - so you have public money going down into private enterprise. Private enterprise needs to make profit, or satisfy shareholders - so you have cash dipping out into shareholders pockets. You also see less litter collections. I wrote to the county council recently and have learned that, in recent years, the frequency of roadside litter picks have halved. Youth Centres and many SureStart centres have all closed in my area. And re: libraries - in my neck of the woods, many have closed (obviously some of library closures isn't just "cuts" - it's also changing habits). The Shire Hall Art Gallery has closed down in Stafford town centre. Car parks have been sold off to private companies like Euro Car Parks or Parking Eye. All of this kind of stuff is happening - but many are too naive to notice.