• ℹ️ Heads up...

    This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.

Ride Access Pass Systems and Disabled Access (pre 2024)

Status
This topic has been locked. No further replies can be posted.
skyscraper said:
What were operations and queues like back then? could that be a reason why people are abusing the system more now?
Click to expand...
Operations were probably similar. The queues for Nemesis were much bigger than they are now, say 45 mins average, and Air being the flagship new coaster would draw 90-120 mins upwards easily on busy days, so I don't think it's that.

I think @BarryZola is on the money with this one actually. More awareness of both conditions that entitle people to use the RAP system and also the RAP system in general.
 
Alsty said:
How and when did the RAP system change?

Back in the early 2000s we used to get the occasional disabled guest with a red wristband and up to two minders with blue wristbands wait at the ride exit. We'd load them onto the next train. After they'd got off it would probably be about 5 minutes before another disabled group would arrive. There was none of this queuing that you see now.

I'm not sure what the criteria was but it seems like it was more strict in those days?
Click to expand...
The actual change happened over the 10/11 closed season, that was when the introduced the time card and got rid of the blue bands.
 
skyscraper said:
Technially Alton's system uses a virtual queue, as at each ride you get a time for your next one based on the current queue time. Seriosly though, a fully virtual, hard-to-abuse system is much needed, not to mention overdue.
Click to expand...
There is a virtual queue aspect built into it, but it's not used in any meaningful way.

Alsty said:
Yes, but that's my point. In 2000 there were no rules. You could reride immediately, yet the scale of abuse is now significantly worse?
Click to expand...
There are two types of abuse though, people using the system in a way that abuses it and people accessing the system in order to abuse it. I think both are more prominent now and also the reasons that people use the system are now better understood.

Edit: what @BarryZola said
 
At legoland today, the virtual que system does seem like a massive improvement as there isn't a massive ride access pass que or 1/3rd train reserved straight for ride access. Any idea how long it will be before roll out elswhwere ?
 
Doublethink said:
At legoland today, the virtual que system does seem like a massive improvement as there isn't a massive ride access pass que or 1/3rd train reserved straight for ride access. Any idea how long it will be before roll out elswhwere ?
Click to expand...
The deployments and guest requirements of them are very different, I am not sure Qbot is a good fit for any of the RTPs but who knows... there is plenty of options coming out of Accesso and their competitors that could be an improvement.
 
Doublethink said:
At legoland today, the virtual que system does seem like a massive improvement as there isn't a massive ride access pass que or 1/3rd train reserved straight for ride access. Any idea how long it will be before roll out elswhwere ?
Click to expand...
I suspect it will be rolled out at THORPE next as they are using access passport scanners to scan rap cards, this is not to limit times at the moment however .
I'm personally hoping all parks move to using the rap photo I'd only with the system treating them like a year(or 2) long qsmart pass.

Sent from my Swift 2 Plus using Tapatalk
 
Call me old fashioned, but I've had massive anxiety issues for decades. All on my medical records, I also take medication and have treatment for it when it gets out of hand.

Yet, until reading this thread, I had no idea I could simply go and get myself a RAP as a result. Nor would I want one either.

I hate queues, I get anxious in a number of social situations. Yet all I've ever done is used my own internal mechanisms to cope with this or avoid certain situations all together when I am feeling unwell. I would never describe myself as "disabled", not in a million years. I'm just individual and that's what helps me live a relatively normal life, I learn to live with it and get on with it.

So I would say there must be a massive problem with people's sense of entitlement more than anything. It's never crossed my mind to run off and claim a RAP to skip queues. I just don't have that mentality. So it's clear that the only way for this to be stopped is for Merlin to stop giving out RAPs like sweets, which then ruins the experience for genuinely disabled people who need them.
 
And because of the ridiculous popularity of the RAP the park had to section off a side of the RBO exclusively for it, and it has like 10 counters. Even then, the queue gets massive. How do genuinely disabled guests cope waiting to obtain one?
 
skyscraper said:
If only they'd listen to genuine users (like us) and work with them to make the system better.
Click to expand...
But how can you define a genuine user? Sorry I don't mean personally, just in general? I've just read through all the recent posts and it's been suggested that only those with physical disabilities should get the pass, is this what you mean?

Personally I think one thing they can do is only allow one person to accompany the disabled person. Families come in all sizes, so I think we ought to get rid of the idea that the whole family can ride with a disabled guest.
 
speedy said:
But how can you define a genuine user? Sorry I don't mean personally, just in general? I've just read through all the recent posts and it's been suggested that only those with physical disabilities should get the pass, is this what you mean?

Personally I think one thing they can do is only allow one person to accompany the disabled person. Families come in all sizes, so I think we ought to get rid of the idea that the whole family can ride with a disabled guest.
Click to expand...
Would be harsh, but would potentially curb the number of groups misusing it. Good idea. :)

By "genuine user" I mean both people who absolutely need to use the system (e.g. wheelchair guests and those who cannot walk far) and people like myself and @ihaveaspergers who need to use it when the crowds are busy.
 
Last edited:
skyscraper said:
Would be harsh, but would potentially curb the number of groups misusing it. Good idea. :)

By "genuine user" I mean both people who absolutely need to use the system (e.g. wheelchair guests and those who cannot walk far) and people like us who need to use it when the crowds are busy.
Click to expand...
I feel a bit weird discussing this, but here goes. I think it's tricky because you can't have a clear cut "people that can queue" and "people that can't", unless you restrict it to wheelchairs only (I'm not calling for that, just playing devils advocate). Maybe you could say those with conditions x, y, z can have a RAP, but you're going to exclude some (undiagnosed) people and include some that don't actually need it.

I say this because I reckon I could make a case for a RAP myself but I know I don't need it. And there will be people like me who don't need it, but get one anyway. But there will also be people like you, who do need it. How can you define "like you"? Making the rules stricter (say, physical disabilities only) would cut out those that don't need it, but it will cut out those that do as well.

Sorry if that came across as rude!!
 
Being unable to have a binary "Eligible" and "Not Eligible" is the root of the issue. You would inevitably encounter a scenario whereby an individual is of the opinion that they are, the park suggests you're not and the Daily Mail are all over it. To ensure this doesn't happen, the park give it to everyone who meets a very loose requirement (I don't blame them for that, but the demand now means that this is clearly an issue).

Physical disabilities is where the whole thing started and has grown to become more inclusive over time, as has the group of people who fit into the categories that the system is now designed to assist. The physical disability decision is also not entirely binary too, I realise.

Don't answer if you don't want to - but generally curious @skyscraper @ihaveaspergers - if you had the opportunity to go to a park that had amazing rides, with hour long queues for all of them and no RAP on offer. Would you...
  • Not go
  • Do your best to cope in the queues
  • Spend a lot on the Fastrack equivalent - if available
  • Something else
I do think some people who 'need' the system would soon not need it if the option was queue or not ride. Also, people who like parks must like other activities which create similar situations where there is no RAP equivalent - I can't believe that isn't the case.
 
Rick said:
Being unable to have a binary "Eligible" and "Not Eligible" is the root of the issue. You would inevitably encounter a scenario whereby an individual is of the opinion that they are, the park suggests you're not and the Daily Mail are all over it. To ensure this doesn't happen, the park give it to everyone who meets a very loose requirement (I don't blame them for that, but the demand now means that this is clearly an issue).

Physical disabilities is where the whole thing started and has grown to become more inclusive over time, as has the group of people who fit into the categories that the system is now designed to assist. The physical disability decision is also not entirely binary too, I realise.

Don't answer if you don't want to - but generally curious @skyscraper @ihaveaspergers - if you had the opportunity to go to a park that had amazing rides, with hour long queues for all of them and no RAP on offer. Would you...
  • Not go
  • Do your best to cope in the queues
  • Spend a lot on the Fastrack equivalent - if available
  • Something else
Click to expand...
I would happily pay a few hundred quid on fastrack if it meant I could actually go to the park.
Which is a problem considering my annual salary.....

Sent from my Swift 2 Plus using Tapatalk
 
Rick said:
Being unable to have a binary "Eligible" and "Not Eligible" is the root of the issue. You would inevitably encounter a scenario whereby an individual is of the opinion that they are, the park suggests you're not and the Daily Mail are all over it. To ensure this doesn't happen, the park give it to everyone who meets a very loose requirement (I don't blame them for that, but the demand now means that this is clearly an issue).

Physical disabilities is where the whole thing started and has grown to become more inclusive over time, as has the group of people who fit into the categories that the system is now designed to assist. The physical disability decision is also not entirely binary too, I realise.

Don't answer if you don't want to - but generally curious @skyscraper @ihaveaspergers - if you had the opportunity to go to a park that had amazing rides, with hour long queues for all of them and no RAP on offer. Would you...
  • Not go
  • Do your best to cope in the queues
  • Spend a lot on the Fastrack equivalent - if available
  • Something else
I do think some people who 'need' the system would soon not need it if the option was queue or not ride. Also, people who like parks must like other activities which create similar situations where there is no RAP equivalent - I can't believe that isn't the case.
Click to expand...
I would plan as the day goes on and cope with the queues.
 
That's the root of the issue really. You don't NEED it to access the rides, whereas someone in a wheelchair does. I'm not at all saying you don't deserve a pass, just that it's not clear cut. I want amusement parks to be as inclusive as possible, but on a super busy day would you be willing to forfeit your pass?

Worth noting that on my visits to Towers I never noticed a problem with RAP users taking too many spaces - I'm just going from what has been said in this thread
 
I still don't understand how if you don't require level access how people benefit from using the RAP?

A few years ago on here, it was argued that some people can queue in the normal queue but can't queue for no longer than 10 minutes hence using the RAP. Now the RAP queues are now overwhelmingly long, this argument undermines the can't queue for longer than 10 mins justification.

At the end of the day, a queue is a queue whether you are standing in the main queue line or the RAP queue line. You are still surrounded by people behind and in front of you.

Does the RAP queue actually move quicker than the main queue line? Surely it's like being in the front row queue line for Nemesis or Rita, the queue line might be smaller, but actually moves a lot slower than the main queue line as you are only loading 2 to 4 people (depending on which ride) onto the front row with each dispatch, and with RAP you are limited to back row (front in the case of RMT).

I usually have the last laugh when the main queue line is walk on and there is a long queue of people waiting in the RAP line, especially when they are still waiting after my 3rd re-ride.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but I'm just stating the facts here. As I've often said many times before, its not for me to say who is and who isn't entitle to use the RAP, but at the same time, if everyone uses it, then it becomes un-sustainable and completely undermines the system as well as the people that it was set up to help.
 
or just get rid of rap altogether and do as Gardaland advise their disabled guests
"
COME PREPARED

During your visit to Gardaland you will often find yourself queuing, in crowded, noisy places. Bring things with you to distract the person with a cognitive disability, such as games, tablets and headphones. Simulate the situations you might come across at the Park. Think about the problems you might have and how to deal with them."
 
Status
This topic has been locked. No further replies can be posted.
Top