Ride Access Pass Systems and Disabled Access (pre 2024)

[RicketyCricket]

As mentioned already, back in the Tussauds/early Merlin days the queues would be huge, but you'd only get a few disabled guests coming through the exit every 15 mins or so. Usually someone on crutches with one person assisting them. Now it seems on busy days there is always a fairly big RAP queue at all times.

Where were all these people 10 years ago? In the main queue.

It's gone too far now and won't be reversed. Merlin wouldn't want to risk tabloid stories of discrimination against disabled people.

 

[Doublethink]

I still don't understand how if you don't require level access how people benefit from using the RAP?

A few years ago on here, it was argued that some people can queue in the normal queue but can't queue for no longer than 10 minutes hence using the RAP. Now the RAP queues are now overwhelmingly long, this argument undermines the can't queue for longer than 10 mins justification.

At the end of the day, a queue is a queue whether you are standing in the main queue line or the RAP queue line. You are still surrounded by people behind and in front of you.

Does the RAP queue actually move quicker than the main queue line? Surely it's like being in the front row queue line for Nemesis or Rita, the queue line might be smaller, but actually moves a lot slower than the main queue line as you are only loading 2 to 4 people (depending on which ride) onto the front row with each dispatch, and with RAP you are limited to back row (front in the case of RMT).

I usually have the last laugh when the main queue line is walk on and there is a long queue of people waiting in the RAP line, especially when they are still waiting after my 3rd re-ride.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but I'm just stating the facts here. As I've often said many times before, its not for me to say who is and who isn't entitle to use the RAP, but at the same time, if everyone uses it, then it becomes un-sustainable and completely undermines the system as well as the people that it was set up to help.

In theory rap should be fine I have been both ends of use as we sometimes take my SO's autistic adhd brother out (he could never manage a standard que) . RAP should just be the same wait to get on a ride but with a virtual que between rides. In my experience at Thorpe they never signed the card so 4x platinum fast pass.... I felt like trash for using it as it was one of the busiest days of the year....

 

[Deejay]

My wife works with early years education (pre school and starting schools ages) when she started years ago few and far between had any diagnosed conditions only few years back say 8 years these numbers start to increase and now a days there are far far more . My wife works across many sites and says now she can tell when she first meets the parents if the child is going to registered or not , she believes there is still a small genuine amount of cases but a lot are pushed for , one nursery she works at has 55 children and a staggering 51 are registered with a condition that would entitle RAP , all there’s parents are from one type of demographic, but just done the road at a private nursery which has 90 children only 4 are registered with a condition that would entitle RAP , these parents are more mixed but from a different demographic to the other nursery. From her experience parents are pushing and flaunting these conditions for all manor of benefits and instant rights , having said that a few are honest a genuine , ok i Joni’s I’m for sure going be hated for this!

 

[delta79]

We have said before it should be 1+1 but

By default it should be one to one.

With a seconded carer if the condition requires it. Maybe using a pre printed card that says 2 carers. The requirement is it should be on the specialist letter.

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[imanautie]

By default it should be one to one.

With a seconded carer if the condition requires it. Maybe using a pre printed card that says 2 carers. The requirement is it should be on the specialist letter.

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So more like the process for 1-1 2-1 for carers passes?

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[speedy]

Now, I don't personally think that the system should be changed too much, as I think it's good that Towers are being inclusive, but I think that they are almost being a little too inclusive at present, especially if the RAP queue is turning out as long as the normal queue.

The problem is; I'm not really sure how Alton could feasibly change things. As time has progressed, our knowledge of different disabilities has increased, so maybe the only reason for the increase is because of increased knowledge and diagnosis. I myself have autism, which was much more severe when I was younger, so when we first visited Alton as a family in 2009, my parents claimed RAP, and when I asked my mum whether she remembered long waits for things, she said that we walked on to everything. Since then, I've grown more accustomed to queueing, and even though I am probably still entitled to it (am I; I'm not entirely sure, as I think the system has changed?), I haven't claimed it since that 2009 visit as queueing no longer bothers me.

For an idea of the sort of conditions the Merlin RAP system now accepts, use my school reward trip to Thorpe last year as an example. As I was walking back to our school's meeting point, I met a girl from my year group. When I told her how many rides I'd done (2), she said that she'd done way more because her friend's dyslexia had entitled them all to RAPs.

In my opinion, it's nice that Merlin are being so inclusive, but I'm not sure if they're being a little too inclusive.

I think your friend must have another condition that warrants a RAP, as that doesn't sound right!

I remember the disability support teacher at my school once said, something like 1 in 3 pupils had some sort of condition recorded by the school. I agree that awareness is far higher now (which is good!), and what went undiagnosed years ago is recognised today.

So with so many people having various conditions, how can Towers reduce the numbers using the RAP pass... ?

• Restrict it to only those that physically can't access the ride (too extreme, Imo)
• Allow RAP users to ride alone and only allow one +1 (I like this one)
• Stricter requirements (would be difficult to implement and subject to bad press)
• Switch to a Q-Bot system (if this would be better, I'm sure Merlin would have done it already)
• Keep the system the same as it is now
• Scrap fast track and VIP passes... ?

You will never have a foolproof system. I am entitled to a blue badge as I'm partially sighted but I don't need a RAP pass. Also what is clear from this thread is that not all autistic people/those with ADHD need it either.

So how to overhaul the system without cutting out people that need it?

 

[Poopoohead]

I’ve seen like 90% of the train taken up on the octonauts ride with a mixture of a large rap group and vip pass holders, it’s got to a point that it can ruin the day for “regular” guests and needs a dramatic overhaul badly

 

[Doublethink]

I’ve seen like 90% of the train taken up on the octonauts ride with a mixture of a large rap group and vip pass holders, it’s got to a point that it can ruin the day for “regular” guests and needs a dramatic overhaul badly

As I said in the Chessington post vampire was on 4 rows RAP and the standby que was moving at less than 100 per hour on my visit bank Holiday Friday.. .

 

[Skyscraper]

• Allow RAP users to ride alone and only allow one +1 (I like this one)

I like that one too but towers would never allow RAP guests to ride alone, whatever the disability, in case of evacuations (hence why if we use the main queue and they spot the wristband we get embarrassingly detrained).

 

[RoyJess]

she said that she'd done way more because her friend's dyslexia had entitled them all to RAPs.

How does Dyslexia stops someone from queuing? It's a condition that affects reading and writing? They may argue that they can't read the signs at the entrance to the rides, but then again how will they read the signs at the exit and their RAP time card? This is what you have a carer for

• Restrict it to only those that physically can't access the ride (too extreme, Imo)

I can also see a sudden increase in people bringing wheelchairs and walking stick to the park, anyone can purchase and use these.

Over the years of using the wheelchair viewing area at the Towers fireworks, we often over hear some of the wheelchair users saying that they don't need their chairs but only brought them along just to gain access to the wheelchair viewing area.

Also at the viewing area, the amount of people who haven't pre-booked and don't have a wheelchair trying to blag their way onto the platform saying that they have a condition which prevents them from standing for any length of time. Yet the platform won't be of use to them as there are no seating provided upon it, it's either you have a wheelchair or you stand up as a carer.

I think what ever system you have in place, someone some where will find a way to exploit it.

Merlin needs to find a way to close all the loop holes that people are exploiting it without affecting those that genuinely in need of using the RAP.

As for limiting Carers, I personally don't feel that the disable person should be penalised for not riding with family by restricting to 1 carer, but at the same time there should be a reasonable limit on numbers. 4 should be suffice, any more than 6 is taking the P

 

[evilcod]

What the solution is I have no idea but due to RAP and VIP this was an entire batch from the main queue on Go Jetters on my last visit....

Madness

 

[Poopoohead]

Absolutely detest the vip pass.

 

[speedy]

As I said in the Chessington post vampire was on 4 rows RAP and the standby que was moving at less than 100 per hour on my visit bank Holiday Friday.. .

I believe there is a system in place that means a RAP user must wait a length of time before being allowed back on the ride. If that's the case, surely the RAP users don't make any difference to the regular queue time? If they didn't have rows set aside for them they would just use the normal queue and you would be waiting just as long... ?

 

[Doublethink]

I believe there is a system in place that means a RAP user must wait a length of time before being allowed back on the ride. If that's the case, surely the RAP users don't make any difference to the regular queue time? If they didn't have rows set aside for them they would just use the normal queue and you would be waiting just as long... ?

In theory yes, in practice (from my own experience of RAP with my SO's autistic adhd brother) most staff don't sign the RAP card or don't put an accurate que time on it.

=4* free platinum fast pass, sometimes with a quicker than fast pass Entrance que

Using a qbot like system removed this human error element

 

[Benzin]

Telling the staff to sign it would also help, only Wickerman did it last time...

But then that would require them to have a dedicated staff member on the exits so it won't happen...

That said, the access for wheelchairs on Smiler and Wickerman are badly designed, given you have to go through on-load again...

 

[imanautie]

Telling the staff to sign it would also help, only Wickerman did it last time...

But then that would require them to have a dedicated staff member on the exits so it won't happen...

That said, the access for wheelchairs on Smiler and Wickerman are badly designed, given you have to go through on-load again...

Which is where qsmart would help, it takes it out of the staff hands as it presumably gets the queue time info from attractions.io or related systems.

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[pluk]

The current system is a farce and needs fixing. It is clear that it is abused massively and is having a hugely detrimental impact on regular queue users days.

Seems to me it is abused both by people with no entitlement claiming one, and also by some people who might have some level of legitimacy to one claiming it when they don't really need it just because they can, and then further abused by some (many?) of all those who do have it by bypassing the wait system that is supposed to be in place, partly assisted by the poor implementation by the park and staff.

With the likely backlash against the park calling out anyone on their alleged 'disability' and entitlement there really is only one way to fix this... They need a system that leaves the user with zero advantage over those using the regular queue. Absolutely none. Those with a genuine need I'm sure will not mind; they only want equal access, not an advantage. Those currently claiming when they don't need to and abusing it would then have no reason to bother.

Exactly what that would look like I do not know, and it would need a bit of effort from the park, but that effort is absolutely required now. A couple of ideas:
- A waiting area at each ride for those using it. You enter, you get given a time to wait equal to the queue time and have to wait there. The advantage is space, seating and flat access, surely the only things needed, but no advantage in time or getting other things done while you are supposed to be queuing.
- Every guest is wrist banded. Regular band, you can enter the queue. RAP band, you can get a time and return but you can not enter a queue and you can not be served food while you have a time outstanding and should be queuing.

Sounds a bit extreme, but what is happening now can not continue.

 

[Doublethink]

Which is where qsmart would help, it takes it out of the staff hands as it presumably gets the queue time info from attractions.io or related systems.

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The current system is a farce and needs fixing. It is clear that it is abused massively and is having a hugely detrimental impact on regular queue users days.

Seems to me it is abused both by people with no entitlement claiming one, and also by some people who might have some level of legitimacy to one claiming it when they don't really need it just because they can, and then further abused by some (many?) of all those who do have it by bypassing the wait system that is supposed to be in place, partly assisted by the poor implementation by the park and staff.

With the likely backlash against the park calling out anyone on their alleged 'disability' and entitlement there really is only one way to fix this... They need a system that leaves the user with zero advantage over those using the regular queue. Absolutely none. Those with a genuine need I'm sure will not mind; they only want equal access, not an advantage. Those currently claiming when they don't need to and abusing it would then have no reason to bother.

Exactly what that would look like I do not know, and it would need a bit of effort from the park, but that effort is absolutely required now. A couple of ideas:
- A waiting area at each ride for those using it. You enter, you get given a time to wait equal to the queue time and have to wait there. The advantage is space, seating and flat access, surely the only things needed, but no advantage in time or getting other things done while you are supposed to be queuing.
- Every guest is wrist banded. Regular band, you can enter the queue. RAP band, you can get a time and return but you can not enter a queue and you can not be served food while you have a time outstanding and should be queuing.

Sounds a bit extreme, but what is happening now can not continue.

I think just making sure that the RAP cards are signed (or even better use a qbot style digital system) would cut down 90 percent of the problem even if some abusers would still que in the standby line during their virtual wait. This also would reduce the number of RAP users as it would remove the "free unlimited fast pass" attitude the abusers have towards it

 

[imanautie]

I think just making sure that the RAP cards are signed (or even better use a qbot style digital system) would cut down 90 percent of the problem even if some abusers would still que in the standby line during their virtual wait. This also would reduce the number of RAP users as it would remove the "free unlimited fast pass" attitude the abusers have towards it

It would so make it much more accessible to legitimate users.

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[Matt.GC]

People who struggle with queueing do have the same levels of access to the park as everyone else on quiet days when they don't have to queue. That's what I do. Can't cope with queues, don't visit on a busy day. It's just common sense surely?