The Brexit Thread

[speedy]

Wow calm down...when did I say I wanted to rid this land of foreign people?
What's "hyper morality'?
Why cant I also have a a genuine issue with the EU and the current brexit strategy?

REALLY, listen to yourself, going on about how I, personally, deserve nothing and will go down in history as a bad person...holy s**t man!


The basis of the argument seems to be that this post, proves I am racist...

All i was saying, is that I don't believe that the NHS issue, is caused mostly by white people...
(Also, c'mon...the phrase "effectively released into the wild" is obviously, a figure of speech...)

You've been presented evidence that your belief was wrong yet carried on spouting it and as a result you're coming across as racist.

 

[IanSR]

Everything is so black and white for you liberals isn't it?

 

[Britford]

I fail to see how being wrong makes someone racist...

 

[Sauron97]

The fact is that leave voters, generally speaking, have a low IQ.

That is just a fact, and it is reinforced by the fact that I'm yet to meet a leave voter who makes a coherent argument for leaving.

Insulting people who voted for something they didnt understand and then attack those who are sceptical as being unpatriotic "remoaners" is hardly illogical.

Ah, ok mr neuroscientist. I'm sure it took a tonne of peer reviewed evidence to end up coming out with that fantastic IQ theory. I'm sure scanning the brains of all of them has taken up vast swathes of your spare time. No offence as I don't know you personally, but it doesn't reflect well on you to group up large numbers of human beings as thick.

People voted remain and leave for a number of reasons. Yet people like you are bought in to to the media image that all Brexit voters are white male immigrant hating boomers. Yes, on social media, you get the vocal numbers of people "get muh country back" (not that it suggests they are less intelligent. less educated perhaps because of the lack of opportunities and huge divide in our education system which has been suggested as one of the reasons for the Brexit vote by numerous economists and political scientists) and some of the slogan based stuff, but people voted leave for numerous reasons. Do I dismiss all Remain voters as london snobs or 'the middle class elite'? No, because there's no way that 48% of the population all had such a narrow minded singular way of thinking; lots of people voted remain for their own reasons and concerns also (so yes, the use of 'remoaners' is just as toxic). People are skeptical of the way that the EU operates, I've put paragraphs of criticisms of the EU even on this forum right down to how EU directives stifle small businesses trying to get a hold inside markets dominated by corporations who heavily lobby the EU. Other people have made valid criticisms too. It should be about respecting both sides of an incredibly controversial issue that has split families and businesses across the country.

Of course, rather than listen to some of our concerns and put some thought in to it, it's easier for you to just sit back and dismiss huge numbers of people as thick like the all seeing eye that you clearly are.

 

[rob666]

The fact is that leave voters, generally speaking, have a low IQ.

That is just a fact, and it is reinforced by the fact that I'm yet to meet a leave voter who makes a coherent argument for leaving.

Insulting people who voted for something they didnt understand and then attack those who are sceptical as being unpatriotic "remoaners" is hardly illogical.

Offensive generalisation.
Just a fact.
No.
Provide detailed evidence for this prejudice please.

Plenty of nutters on both sides, don't resort to offensive generalisations for people who disagree with you.

 

[Benzin]

To be fair, based on some of those who were interviewed the last few days on the BBC it's not difficult to understand why such opinions as low IQ have come to the fore.

Especially when you start seeing things posted like the sign in Norwich flats.

Unfortunately people never like to admit they're wrong, and in a post fact world admitting you said something due to a lie is something that shows weakness. Hence a lot of doubling down with little actual explanation as to why.

 

[AstroDan]

I'm no fan of nationalism.

There's too much of it going round at the moment.

Let's try and keep the debate as kind as possible within the context of the disagreements.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[RoyJess]

I see that Boris took on my advice

Why not just hire a man to hit a gong, would be more fitting to how I feel about Brexit

"Boris Johnson banged a gong to mark 11pm"

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/inside-the-pms-brexit-party-dominic-cummings-broke-down-in-tears-as-britain-left-the-eu-while-boris-johnson-banged-a-gong-to-mark-11pm-and-celebrated-with-£350-wine/ar-BBZyjTP?li=BBoPRmx&ocid=mailsignout

Roy

ps..however, someone should have told Boris that in show business, that the golden bong is the equivalent to the BGT buzzer, it whats you use to gong/buzz off something that is rubbish

 

[Alsty]

I think the news article that @RoyJess linked to shows there will certainly be a percentage of Brexit voters who will be disappointed. Immigration won't be stopping if that's what they wanted.

 

[Dave]

Everything is so black and white for you liberals isn't it?

No not everything, but some things are just simply a moral question and dehumanising other cultures and race is morally wrong.

I mean if you think otherwise then please elaborate on why.

 

[Dave]

I fail to see how being wrong makes someone racist...

I think you missed the bit where Rick quoted your previous suggestion that the EU allowed “illegals” to come to the uk and “effectively released into the wild”.

But seriously look in the mirror and ask yourself what your reasoning for Brexit was. If your heart says it was because you didn’t want foreign people from war torn countries coming then not only will Brexit increase illegal immigration but you have picked a pretty sinister reasoning.

 

[Alsty]

It's being reported today that Boris Johnson is to tell the EU that he won't accept close alignment with EU rules and regulations.

I assume this is mostly political posturing, but I do wish he'd be more honest with the electorate. If you want to leave by the end of the year then you'll need to accept close alignment. If you don't want close alignment then leaving at the end of the year isn't realistic. Tell us which one is the lie.

 

[Benzin]

It's posturing, because any company (so most companies, be it manufacture or transport) that wants to produce products to sell in the EU will have to fulfil their requirements anyway.

 

[D4n]

People have requested that I source my claim that better-educated people tended to vote remain so here goes:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...leave-eu-remain-voters-educated-a7881441.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...im-that-better-educated-voted-remain-pollster

https://ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-voices/

I am not suggesting that *everybody* who voted leave is an idiot. However, it is an absolute fact that those who wanted to leave were generally less educated than those who wanted to remain. Judging by the people in the pub on Friday night celebrating, a lot of them shouldn't be trusted with tying their own shoelaces, let alone a constitutional decision as big as this one.

Even the most sensible of leave voters seem to want to take every opportunity to gloat about their "victory", then wonder why people with the opposing view still feel a bit hacked off about it.

 

[bluesonichd]

so those with higher education are better than those with lower...
I'd like to see the country function if 100% of the population were uni graduates...

 

[Dave]

so those with higher education are better than those with lower...
I'd like to see the country function if 100% of the population were uni graduates...

Where did he say that?

 

[IanSR]

I mean if you think otherwise then please elaborate on why.

I'm a strong believer in free speech, I may not agree with someone's view, but I will defend their right to express it. If I don't like what they have to say just don't respond, it's that simple. After all, it may be you one day who finds themselves on the wrong side of the thought police and cancelled as a result, for oh perhaps, say, quoting Shakespeare to someone?

I saw nothing illegal in what was said, the person said they felt the NHS had been in effect, brought to it's knees by the influx of immigrants that had entered this country since we opened the doors and invited everybody in, but if you listened to the media the official narrative was that the NHS had been bought to its knees by bitter old white men living longer, calling this out is not racist, it may be a strong, and in some people's eyes a bigoted view, but it is not racist. If you think it is, I suggest you look up the official definition of racism, and by that I mean the real one, not the make believe leftiest definition, at no point was any claim made that the immigrants had damaged the NHS because they were inferior to the native white people who were a superior race solely due to the color of their skin, now that would be racist.

Of course, if we were to take the viewpoint that racism is anything that calls out a particular group or just anything that offends a person, then by that definition the constant insulting of leave voters, calling them idiots and posting photos of a people with no teeth accompanied by poorly spelled catchphrases in an effort to group all leave voters into a group of "idiots" as evident in this thread, is just as racist as saying the NHS has been bought to its knees by a massive population growth fed by immigration.

But alas, I don't see you getting outraged at that "racism" because to you its just an amusing "sock it to the leavers" meme rather than anything offensive and in need of cancelling, like the opinion expressed about the NHS.

...and before you take to Twitter to stir up the mob to hunt me down and dead name me, or whatever it is you do to people whose opinions you don't like, read, then re-read what I have said, at no point have I said I agreed with the viewpoint, just that he, or she, is just as entitled to express it, as you are to disagree with it. My personal opinion is the NHS is at its knees due to decades of under investment that predates us inviting in the rest of the continent in to use it, but that hasn't helped either, and that's not racist either, it's fact.

I am not suggesting that *everybody* who voted leave is an idiot.

To take the point of view of others, yes, you did, or rather, you did not say this originally, so therefore you did suggest it by default.

See how easy it is to twist a persons words, or something they don't say, into something it's not?

 

[delta79]

I keep reading about 'them foreigners'. It does get on my nerves when it is used so widely. From illegal entrances into the uk to 3rd/4th generation uk citizens.

It is used by some elements of brexit to hide their racist view. These people are great for selling news. And is unfortunately tanting the brexit voters as a whole.

Yes we need to control illegal entry into the uk. And hold the asylum seeking rule of requesting it at the first safe country.

The agreement was to share the load across the EU. So we get asylum seekers though correct channels. Not across the channel in unsuitable boats.

I think official asylum seekers can be good for the country.
We have 4 chip shops owned by a older gent ( and he is one) that came as a official asylum seeker 30 ish yrs ago.

The 3rd/4th generation of non white british are British. We have a wonderfully diverse culture in the uk. And we should be proud of that, and show the union flag in a multi cultural way.

Sent from my SM-J600FN using Tapatalk

 

[rob666]

D4n, I'm afraid you are confusing IQ and levels of education.
IQ is fixed, and a life gift.
Education is a resource, provided to some people more freely than to others.
The better off tend to do better in education overall.
Specifically the upper and middle classes.
So the more educated were more likely to want to remain, not the more intelligent.
Big difference.
Now show me the statistics on IQ.

 

[Britford]

Just to put this ridiculous argument to bed, no I am not racist...at no point have I said that immigrants are lesser because of race, I simply stated how I don't believe that the NHS issue has nothing to do with immigration, this is mostly due to how the media likes to protect migrants from any form of responsibility, despite them causing genuine issues (grooming gangs and non intergration for example)...I don't care if you disagree...

Now can we stop with such serious (potentially life ruining) false accusations!