• ℹ️ Heads up...

    This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.

Talbot Street Lock In

SW5 came alive in 2002, as Air took flight over Forbidden Valley, inviting guests to 'Assume the Position'.

With the new coaster providing an experience for all the family, at the other end of the valley Dynamo returned much to the delight of thrillseekers. The younger members of the family were also in luck, as New Adventure Land brought a plethora of new play equipment to the park.

2002.jpg
 
Last edited:
Matt N said:
What exactly do you mean by “more corporate”? Air was still a very impressive investment, and the park later went on to invest a huge amount of money into Splash Landings & Cariba Creek just a year later (coincidentally, Splash Landings and Cariba Creek opened the year I was born!), so I’d say that the 1990s momentum definitely continued well into the 2000s; from what I know, if I had to pinpoint a time where things slowed down and changed, I’d probably say somewhere around 2004-2005.
Click to expand...

I would say 2001 was probably the last year under Tussauds which the investment felt 'healthy' for the park/resort.

2004 was really when the problem hit home, but it was definitely already heading in that trajectory by 2002 and 2003 - both Air and Splash Landing (and several other additions in those years) have hallmarks of problems behind the scenes - both were very ambitious projects and show the creative desire to bring great attractions to the park but both were undermined by a very apparent lack of resources being made available from the corporate arm of the company.

With Air it was apparent with its massively scaled back theming. And with Splash Landings the inability to get it ready on time, which is forgivable, but then opening it anyway, which is not. The very act of opening an visibly incomplete hotel is a warning sign that someone in an office somewhere is calling the shots based on a spreadsheet... and that is why it felt more corporate.
 
Squiggs said:
With Air it was apparent with its massively scaled back theming. And with Splash Landings the inability to get it ready on time, which is forgivable, but then opening it anyway, which is not. The very act of opening an visibly incomplete hotel is a warning sign that someone in an office somewhere is calling the shots based on a spreadsheet... and that is why it felt more corporate.
Click to expand...
I think there is some truth in what you say there, we stayed at Splash in its opening weekend and there was no doubt that it was incomplete, but there are complexities with delaying the opening of a hotel when you don't have room elsewhere.

I don't care what the spreadsheet said, I was glad I had a bed for the night.

The moment Dynamo appeared on a map so lazily drawn is where the magic really started to wane for me.
 
Oblivion theme was also really scaled back much like Air's, even after the more detailed steampunk concept was dropped.

I think the park's change really began with Oblivion and was quite intentional going for that 'non theme park' cool image (also coincided with sale to Charterhouse), marketing hype over substance

But Ug Land, Hex and Cariba Creek were still great themes, kind of hangers on from previous era I guess. And even then, Ug Land was mostly second hand funfair rides and pay-to-play games, even though it was a very entertaining kids area
 
Squiggs said:
I would say 2001 was probably the last year under Tussauds which the investment felt 'healthy' for the park/resort.

2004 was really when the problem hit home, but it was definitely already heading in that trajectory by 2002 and 2003 - both Air and Splash Landing (and several other additions in those years) have hallmarks of problems behind the scenes - both were very ambitious projects and show the creative desire to bring great attractions to the park but both were undermined by a very apparent lack of resources being made available from the corporate arm of the company.

With Air it was apparent with its massively scaled back theming. And with Splash Landings the inability to get it ready on time, which is forgivable, but then opening it anyway, which is not. The very act of opening an visibly incomplete hotel is a warning sign that someone in an office somewhere is calling the shots based on a spreadsheet... and that is why it felt more corporate.
Click to expand...
I'd say 2004 was a bad year for all theme parks. Oakwood had the Hydro incident, Thorpe toned down Samurai's settings, Flamingo Land sold their indoor coaster and 3 flat rides. Chessingtons events weren't good. I don't think we need to mention Boneshaker, Dynamo and UG Land.
 
Thorpe toned down Samurais settings...nobody cared.
Mingo's coaster in a papier mache scaffold...nobody cared.
If it was left much longer, it would have demolished itself.
And we got Spinball, a decent family coaster, fun for all, except dipper dave.
 
rob666 said:
Thorpe toned down Samurais settings...nobody cared.
Mingo's coaster in a papier mache scaffold...nobody cared.
If it was left much longer, it would have demolished itself.
And we got Spinball, a decent family coaster, fun for all, except dipper dave.
Click to expand...
And Drayton got rid of 3 rides just to replace it with a painful rollercoaster that only lasted 13 seasons!
 
Rick said:
If Oblivion was 'the turning point' (I don't think it was), that's a pretty short period where there was a 'peak'.
Click to expand...
Yes, thats what I find really surprising how we nearly got a complete theme park with all great areas like some of the other greats in Europe, but the last few phases got exchanged for quick change marketing ideas instead, then sold by Pearson

It doesnt mean there was a single cut off point but Oblivion marked a big change and made Tussauds’ original vision for the park pretty short lived

Until then, Tussauds had been trying to build the theme park up as this fantasy place with its own identity, which was Nick Varney’s lead really. With Oblivion they deliberately went against that

Oblivion is a great ride but the first of all this world first sloganeering style of development thats meant Alton Towers hasnt really seen its full potential in the long run (in my opinion).

The Broome era a very different vision for the park too and pretty much all done away with by Tussauds’ redevelopment in the 90s
 
Last edited:
I think there's some truth in what you're saying. I don't think Oblivion ever felt like it had suffered at the hands of accountants or marketeers though, unlike the next two secret weapons (and a lot of the stuff that popped up between them).

Ug Land and Hex were high quality themed attractions with effective marketing campaigns coupled to them. Since then the really high quality all-round stuff has been the exception (Mutiny Bay, Wickerman) rather than the rule...
 
WillPS said:
I don't think Oblivion ever felt like it had suffered at the hands of accountants or marketeers though, unlike the next two secret weapons (and a lot of the stuff that popped up between them).

Ug Land and Hex were high quality themed attractions with effective marketing campaigns coupled to them. Since then the really high quality all-round stuff has been the exception (Mutiny Bay, Wickerman) rather than the rule...
Click to expand...
As all things I think it's a slippery slope, rather than a cut off point, and I think it started with Oblivion choosing trendy style over substance (which actually dated quickly) and so many features cut that the area became just some cheap buildings and TV screens.

Although I do like the theme and the ride, I think it was a rash departure before Alton Towers' identity was really cemented. Ironically that X Sectory minimal style is now probably what most people think of when they picture Alton Towers. Which really puts the incredible setting to waste, one of the best settings for a fantasy theme park in the world!

The world firsts were still enjoyable, but the change of direction sidelined the park itself. Less and less to explore between the big headliners and a less 'themed' theme park. The park kept sliding down the slope until we ended up with Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Rita, Duel etc
 
If we look back, I’d personally argue that a couple of Tussauds’ installations during the “golden era” were marketing driven to a degree; for example, Cred Street/Nickelodeon Outta Control in 1997 was a move that I’d imagine was largely driven by marketeers.

Although to be fair, a number of these world’s firsts were built during the Coaster Wars, when the onus was very much on new attractions having some form of marketing hook or world record/world’s first in general. As Alton Towers is height restricted and restricted in terms of where they can build, they couldn’t really do records, so they had to opt for these firsts in their marketing. Besides, I’d say that all of the world’s firsts (as far as the SWs go, at least) were attractions that really bought something new and innovative to the table and were tremendously successful for the park.

I must say, this discussion is very interesting, and I think it warrants its own topic; I might go and make one!
EDIT: I’ve made a topic: https://towersstreet.com/talk/threads/when-do-you-believe-alton-towers-golden-age-ended.5464/
 
Last edited:
Matt N said:
If we look back, I’d personally argue that a couple of Tussauds’ installations during the “golden era” were marketing driven to a degree; for example, Cred Street/Nickelodeon Outta Control in 1997 was a move that I’d imagine was largely driven by marketeers.
Click to expand...
But that was just 1 year before Oblivion, so it just adds to the start of this steady slope I'm on about, towards short term development

Even so Air and Oblivion were much bolder than Smiler and Thirteen in my opinion. Hex would have been naff too had it not been saved. I guess what Im suggesting is there was no one year that all a sudden everything became bad, but gradually from the late 90s the vision for Alton Towers was dropped before it was really finished.

I think it's interesting and shows a lost potential. Still a fun theme park, but kind of laid the foundation for where the park ended up
 
So using that as a guide, then the “golden era” would really have been very short, as that would only really encompass 1992-1996 (I know Tussauds bought Towers in 1990, but they didn’t really begin making their mark until Katanga Canyon & Gloomy Wood were built in 1992, in my opinion).
 
Matt N said:
So using that as a guide, then the “golden era” would really have been very short, as that would only really encompass 1992-1996 (I know Tussauds bought Towers in 1990, but they didn’t really begin making their mark until Katanga Canyon & Gloomy Wood were built in 1992, in my opinion).
Click to expand...
Yeah in terms of development I suppose so. Although it doesnt mean suddenly the park stopped being fun, it was just the start of a different direction, the original vision short lived. Someone else might see it differently

Interesting to note that 92–96 period coincides with Nick Varney's involvement with the park's development too (he left 95, which would have included planning the 96 stuff)

My dream Alton Towers had it carried on
Haunted House, Katanga Canyon, Nemesis & Forbidden Valley, Ug Land with better rides, Hex, Toyland Tours (plus a better redevelopment of that area), Port Discovery & Black Hole, storybook land & the farm, a great wooden coaster, the gardens and the ruins, would have been incredible I think
 
See, I think that the park is still world-class and providing fantastic days out now. In spite of what many may say about Alton Towers, I think we still have something pretty special, and it’s still my 2nd favourite theme park I’ve been to all these years on (my favourite is Universal’s Islands of Adventure, for clarity). I’ve never had a bad day there, and I think that Merlin are still making some brilliant investments (Wicker Man was fantastic, and The World of David Williams should really revitalise an area that needed work, amongst others).
 
Matt N said:
See, I think that the park is still world-class and providing fantastic days out now. In spite of what many may say about Alton Towers, I think we still have something pretty special, and it’s still my 2nd favourite theme park I’ve been to all these years on (my favourite is Universal’s Islands of Adventure, for clarity). I’ve never had a bad day there, and I think that Merlin are still making some brilliant investments (Wicker Man was fantastic, and The World of David Williams should really revitalise an area that needed work, amongst others).
Click to expand...
Wicker Man was certainty a fantastic investment, that so that I struggle sometimes to believe that:
1.) Wicker Man and Smiler are in the same park with different theming levels
2.) How they can produce brilliant well themed rides but Sequoia Magic Loop exists!
3.) How they can do brilliant things like Hex, but let Duel fall into the low category
 
Hex would have taken years of planning and consultation. Duel was more or less a copy and paste of the 'upgrade' done at Chessington the previous season.

It's like comparing Oblivion or even Air to Rita.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top