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Blackpool Pleasure Beach: General Discussion

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Thameslink Rail said:
Regardless of what people want, by law the Big Dipper, Grand National and Flying Machines must stay as they are as they are listed buildings. I doubt that they could get permission to any form of GCI/RMC conversion on the woodies. I wouldn't be surprised if the river caves and ghost train are listed soon.
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I’d assume Coney Island Cyclone has some sort of preservation order on it, but they managed to allow GCI to conduct work on that.

Also, I believe there is some kind of clause within the listing of the rides that allows Pleasure Beach to remove them if they “fall beyond repair” or basically aren’t economically viable to keep going.
 
As much as people like to complain about them, Blackpool would be nothing without classics like Grand National, Flying Machines and Big Dipper (I very much consider Wild Mouse part of this equation too).

The main problem with the park is that their more modern additions have been, for the most part, extremely poor. Rides like Infusion, Steeplechase, Ice Blast and Sky Force are not good. In fact they're the kind of thing somebody would expect from any old tacky seaside amusement park (and we have plenty of those in this country). Icon and Valhalla were the exceptions to this (and of course The Big One has a solid reputation). As much as the park might be aiming to emulate Liseberg, the park just doesn't have the quality attractions of its Swedish counterpart.

So what really makes Blackpool stand out from the likes of Adventure Island, Fantasy Island and Great Yarmouth Pleasure Beach is its abundance of classic, historic attractions. These are rides that generation after generation have enjoyed and they have real heritage value.

The second you remove these rides from Blackpool, even if you replace them with something decent (and historically the odds are not good that they will), you lose one of the main appeals of the park. Furthermore, as I have outlined above, some of the more modern additions are utter dross and should be earmarked for removal a long time before replacing any of the heritage attractions is even considered.
 
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Do you think the rides would benefit from having footers installed and a more complex structure to remove rattle on the dipper I could see this making a drastic difference it’s a great ride but it’s rough if your smaller sized i.e kids


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I used to be all for keeping the heritage but in recent years the park have decided to get rid of a lot of classic rides which has changed my mind somewhat.

So get nash bulldozed and build something world class in its place! Or just build something that doesn't threaten to send you to A&E

I would be happy to see Dipper go too if it was replaced by a new woodie.











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I’m pretty sure if the rides wasn’t listed then they would of been knocked down in the future. End of the day we can all discuss what could be etc but the fact remains for the foreseeable future, unless something out of the ordinary happens then the rides and buildings are going no where. Noah’s ark, Flying Machines, Blue Flyer, Big Dipper and Grand National are all officially grade 2 listed and no changes can be done to the structures. I think tho yes it’s a burden on the future of BPB having to maintain the rides but it’s what makes the park diffrent to other seaside amusement parks.
 
Mr Pearse said:
I’m pretty sure if the rides wasn’t listed then they would of been knocked down in the future. End of the day we can all discuss what could be etc but the fact remains for the foreseeable future, unless something out of the ordinary happens then the rides and buildings are going no where. Noah’s ark, Flying Machines, Blue Flyer, Big Dipper and Grand National are all officially grade 2 listed and no changes can be done to the structures. I think tho yes it’s a burden on the future of BPB having to maintain the rides but it’s what makes the park diffrent to other seaside amusement parks.
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You can get consent to demolish a listed structure if there is no viable alternative.

What is considered "no viable alternative" I don't know, but suppose Nash becomes impossible to keep running due to cost of maintenance or perhaps there is a major incident that means it is unsafe to run. What happens then ?

Are the park expected to keep the ride SBNO forever ? or would they argue that the only viable option is to demolish it ?

Not sure if there are any other examples of a coaster being listed then becoming SBNO, but it would seem rather bizarre to have to keep a roller coaster standing when it can no longer operate.
 
shakey said:
You can get consent to demolish a listed structure if there is no viable alternative.

What is considered "no viable alternative" I don't know, but suppose Nash becomes impossible to keep running due to cost of maintenance or perhaps there is a major incident that means it is unsafe to run. What happens then ?

Are the park expected to keep the ride SBNO forever ? or would they argue that the only viable option is to demolish it ?

Not sure if there are any other examples of a coaster being listed then becoming SBNO, but it would seem rather bizarre to have to keep a roller coaster standing when it can no longer operate.
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think the park necessarily has to keep the rides if they are Grade II listed. It just makes them a lot more difficult to remove or modify.
 
Argument could be made about Noah’s Ark, they wanted to demolish it and create a new entrance and now that ideas been thrown out. Just a complete guess but i imagine the hassle and cost to remove the structure and to go through that process would just be too much time and cost consuming. From what history has shown us is that BPB likes to make rides disappear quickly without any fuss so having to apply to get a structure demolished would cause a lot of needless attention.
 
D4n said:
The main problem with the park is that their more modern additions have been, for the most part, extremely poor. Rides like Infusion, Steeplechase, Ice Blast and Sky Force are not good. In fact they're the kind of thing somebody would expect from any old tacky seaside amusement park (and we have plenty of those in this country). Icon and Valhalla were the exceptions to this (and of course The Big One has a solid reputation). As much as the park might be aiming to emulate Liseberg, the park just doesn't have the quality attractions of its Swedish counterpart.
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I agree that a lot of the modern additions don't stand out within the park, and many have come and gone very quickly (Spin Doctor and Bling). But Steeplechase? That to me is one of the classic unique attractions (at 43years old I wouldn't call it modern) and its only one of two of those models in the world.
I've not been up to Blackpool in years so haven't ridden Icon, but from what I've heard it continues that trend with Blackpool of newer rides not being "interesting" enough. Yes its better than other amusement parks, which Infusion, Air Race, Ice Blast aren't, but unfortunately it doesn't seem enough to compete well with Alton Towers. Although Blackpool has somewhat a better ride selection than Drayton Manor, if you exclude Thomasland.
 
Ice Blast was a pretty unique ride when it first opened as well, the 1st tower ride in the UK. Always seems pretty popular when visiting the park as well.
 
I mean the fact that you can't really access non-wheel seats means you probably will need A&E due to social distancing. It may be a classic ride, but it's roughness has gone too far beyond the point of comfort tbh!
 
There’s a few points to make here:

- The comparison to Liseberg is interesting. Whilst Liseberg is a good park, it has very little in the way of heritage rides and certainly nothing like BPB. Getting rid of BPB’s history would leave them with a very bland park.

- Why so many people even think the removal of historic rides is required for BPB to expand is beyond me. Despite popular opinion, there are a number of available sites to locate new rides if the park wanted to. It’s not a choice between demolishing Big Dipper and getting a new flat ride.

- The park has already lost a lot of its uniqueness and heritage in the last decade. Generally that seems to be in the interests of modernising. I would much rather see modernising also respect the park’s heritage. Big Dipper’s remodelled fountain is one of the few examples of a change which is both modern and reflects the park’s heritage. More of this and less white plastic would be good.

- I don’t consider retracking the woodies as modernising them. That’s just maintenance, unless it’s a new track profile or something else material changes. The first half of National would benefit from this. As too Big Dipper.
 
jon81uk said:
Given Noaks Ark is SBNO and the Wild Mouse site is sat empty I don't really see how these changes made the park any more modern?
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I've always thought they could make better use of the site formerly occupied by Black Hole as well. Noah's Ark may be heritage but the park could get a bigger and better entrance if they take out Noah's Ark! I'm sure @ScottPBE would agree!
 
If you look at league tables compiled by enthusiasts, family coasters generally don’t do well. Even the top family coasters like Big Thunder Mountain often come out surprisingly low down. I think the Steeplechase is a better ride than a lot of enthusiast polls suggest. It doesn’t have lots of g forces, but it’s a fun ride.

Black Hole was also an enclosed waltzer at Blackpool Pleasure Beach.
 
The type of change I’m describing to the woodies is something that would improve the comfort of the ride experience without removing the rides’ traditional charm. There are definitely ways in which this can be done, as there have been parks abroad that have proven this.

For example, I know that Roller Coaster at Lagoon received new custom trains from GCI in 2018. That ride was built in 1921, so is older than any of Pleasure Beach’s wooden coasters, and prior to this, the trains were a 3-row PTC affair not dissimilar to the ones currently on Grand National; there are some photos of the previous trains on the ride’s RCDB page: https://rcdb.com/196.htm

And here’s a video of the new trains, which are slightly modified versions of GCI’s Millennium Flyer trains:
From what I’ve heard, these trains track pretty well on Roller Coaster’s layout, so if combined with some retracking, I think something similar could substantially improve Grand National and/or Big Dipper, in my opinion. Even though it isn’t anywhere near as rough as the above two, even Streak could possibly benefit from this, although as I said, that one is far and away the most comfortable of Blackpool’s larger woodies, in my opinion.

I’m not advocating the removal of the older wooden coasters by any means, but I do think a change like this could really help them to appeal to a wider audience while retaining the rides’ unique charm and heritage. I think something akin to what Lagoon did with Roller Coaster might make the woodies appeal to a wider audience while still pleasing the preservationists; a nice compromise between preservation and evolution, for me.
 
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