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2021: Opening date & Tickets Onsale

jon81uk said:
Drop the weekday day tickets to £20/25 (so only £2 less than the current price with a. 2for1) and put the single park annual/season pass back up to around £100 as it was 3-4 years ago.
£25 a visit is more than reasonable price, so a £100 season pass would be fine.
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Why are we arguing for such a steep price hike?

The park was recovering well until Covid. The season pass price was working.
 
Matt.GC said:
I'm advocating an increase in guest experience and an end to discounting rather than just jacking up prices. I've already said that I think variable pricing is a good idea. But surely the recent passholder ticket scandal has shown that the park relies more heavily on non passholder attendance than we previously might have thought for a decent income?

It's undeniable, as Merlin were a PLC, that they discounted and cut themselves into a corner. It's my personal opinion that they need to strike a value balance. Commercial decisions around pricing and operational expenditure are based on projections in which consumer opinion is also taken into account. If you ask someone, as so many Merlin feedback surveys do, if they think they've paid a fair price, of course they're going to say no and would probably say so until the park is free entry. It's a bit like asking most people if they think they get paid enough by their employers, hardly anyone says yes.

With places like Oakwood charging £35 to get in, I bet you most people think a trip to Towers is more expensive than it actually is. If they can't fill the park up without selling £55 season passes then their park clearly has problems that are nothing to do with pricing.

They've ripped people off in other ways. As gate prices have remained broadly flat, BOGOFs are found everywhere and season passes have been offered for £55, they've closed attractions, closed food options, decimated entertainment, slashed opening hours and operating days and opened an up charge attraction.

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Ripped off? Those closed attractions (after the Smiler crash) have, largely, reopened.

We've had new rides too, Entertainment and events have improved recently too. Operations and reliability are very decent.

Yes, I've been to Europa Park and it's brilliant. However my friend who did it with me (not a theme park geek) enjoyed Alton Towers Oktoberfest just as much.

I think what you are arguing for will lead to less park hours, more closed park days (off peak) and much higher prices for the user.

Keep it as it is and we get a major coaster every 4/5 years, at least one new thing every year and a park that's been getting better the last few years.
 
I think there will be a significant passholder drop off in 2021 as people can't be bothered with all the pre-booking covid restrictions so the poster who want a reduction in passholders will be their wish without putting up the price of the pass to £100.
 
Mikw said:
Why are we arguing for such a steep price hike?

The park was recovering well until Covid. The season pass price was working.
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Because the park is worth more than £55 a season, as raised by others already in this thread.
No other non-Merlin UK park offers such a cheap pass. Blackpool is £110 on a special offer at the moment. Back in 2016 it was £120 for an Alton Towers annual pass.

Matt.GC said:
But I hope this whole passholder scandal of 2020 highlights the issue of filling your theme parks up with passholders who you've sold a pass to at a bargain basement price, rather than trying to create higher quality experiences that can command a higher day ticket or pass price.
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BarryZola said:
I reckon they might wanna lay off the cheap single park 'season passes' in future. Long before Covid it was remarked by several people on here that they were way too cheap and when Covid came around it only added to the issues of trying to book a day to Towers as there must have been a significant number of 'season pass' holders on top of Merlin pass holders. This is coming from a Merlin pass holder who was considering getting a Towers 'season pass' instead next season. Not sure if I'd rather they just get rid of the cheap passes though and just pay more for the Merlin pass but get a better experience. Obviously not sure if I'll be getting anything yet though. Depends what their booking system will be like next year.
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Matt.GC said:
I get the argument for wham bam thank you mam, £55 to whore a stellar aging coaster lineup as many times as you want on a rainy April day between 10 and 4 but it's hardly a long term sustainable business model is it and this isn't a Six Flags park. I could quite easily argue with the quality of Towers actually but that's off topic and is fairly well discussed on other threads.

A long season, with no closed days, decent opening hours, events and entertainment should be welcomed even if it means the end of heavily discounted entry.
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Mikw said:
Ripped off? Those closed attractions (after the Smiler crash) have, largely, reopened.

We've had new rides too, Entertainment and events have improved recently too. Operations and reliability are very decent.
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Submission and Ripsaw haven't been replaced. The Ice Age 4D show hasn't been replaced. The pirate stage show hasn't been replaced. Which closed attractions have re-opened?

Charlie and the Choc factory got replaced with a pay-extra attraction.

Overall there has been a loss of attractions over the last few years. The only area to grow is CBeebies.

Yes I agree 2020 has seen great improvements in seasonal entertainment, but except for CBeebies there is still no shows in the park (live or 4D).
 
Ethan said:
I'd personally set the day price at £40 and the season pass £120 that seems about right
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Well peak day tickets are already £38. Will be interesting to see what happens with season & annual passes next year. I think the 3 years we've had of the bargain £55 pass is gone.
 
jon81uk said:
Submission and Ripsaw haven't been replaced. The Ice Age 4D show hasn't been replaced. The pirate stage show hasn't been replaced. Which closed attractions have re-opened?

Charlie and the Choc factory got replaced with a pay-extra attraction.

Overall there has been a loss of attractions over the last few years. The only area to grow is CBeebies.

Yes I agree 2020 has seen great improvements in seasonal entertainment, but except for CBeebies there is still no shows in the park (live or 4D).
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I seem to recall Hex and a whole lot of the regular attractions closing after The Smiler accident, and the park was eerily quiet, and understandably it wasn't worth opening on days when it was forecast to be quiet.

And we got Wickerman, and the Dungeons and Walliams World, i think the current model of attracting people to come into the park without ripping them off on the gate is working well

Price hikes (and big ones as your proposing for season pass holders) will surely put people off, and that's not the way to run a theme park.
 
My only Merlin pass was the season after the smiler crash.
Hex, and all the other attractions opened, but many rides closed early on very quiet days, because of the lack of punters...a bit like Blackpool this autumn.
 
Mikw said:
I seem to recall Hex and a whole lot of the regular attractions closing after The Smiler accident, and the park was eerily quiet, and understandably it wasn't worth opening on days when it was forecast to be quiet.

And we got Wickerman, and the Dungeons and Walliams World, i think the current model of attracting people to come into the park without ripping them off on the gate is working well

Price hikes (and big ones as your proposing for season pass holders) will surely put people off, and that's not the way to run a theme park.
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Giving away your product for near as damn it nothing is not the way to run any business.

That becomes much much more obvious when outside forces limit your capacity so full paying guests cannot subsidise the ones coming in for nearly nothing. That's been the crux of the problem since reopening.

Pricing has to reflect the cost to the business. Assuming some level of restrictions on capacity will be in place in the medium term, the cost of a passholder turning up is a very real one when a it means another guest willing to pay to enter is unable to do so as the capacity is taken. The cost to the business each time that happens (having taken a couple of quid maximum for that entry, pro rata, but losing £35+ each time) is not sustainable.

Passes come with huge benefits, so they should come with a large price to reflect this. Sell fewer at a higher price, protect capacity, everyone is a winner. Apart from those currently getting something for nearly nothing, but those are people you can afford to lose.
 
Mikw said:
I seem to recall Hex and a whole lot of the regular attractions closing after The Smiler accident, and the park was eerily quiet, and understandably it wasn't worth opening on days when it was forecast to be quiet.

And we got Wickerman, and the Dungeons and Walliams World, i think the current model of attracting people to come into the park without ripping them off on the gate is working well

Price hikes (and big ones as your proposing for season pass holders) will surely put people off, and that's not the way to run a theme park.
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yes Hex did close for a refurb for a year and it probably was a mix of cost cutting, but it also got replacement speakers and some other work done.

Wickerman replaced the flume, Dungeons (a pay extra attraction) replaced Charlie, Gangsta Granny is a better attraction that wobble world, but still really a replacement. With the loss of many flat rides and shows there has still been an overall reduction in the number of attractions, with the exception of the CBeebies area.

I’m proposing a return to the single park annual pass price from 2016 rather than the recent super low price. Even at £120 you only need four to five visits to pay for it.
 
jon81uk said:
yes Hex did close for a refurb for a year and it probably was a mix of cost cutting, but it also got replacement speakers and some other work done.

Wickerman replaced the flume, Dungeons (a pay extra attraction) replaced Charlie, Gangsta Granny is a better attraction that wobble world, but still really a replacement. With the loss of many flat rides and shows there has still been an overall reduction in the number of attractions, with the exception of the CBeebies area.

I’m proposing a return to the single park annual pass price from 2016 rather than the recent super low price. Even at £120 you only need four to five visits to pay for it.
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Which is all well and good but the massive price hike wouldn't guarantee any more new rides
 
pluk said:
Giving away your product for near as damn it nothing is not the way to run any business.

That becomes much much more obvious when outside forces limit your capacity so full paying guests cannot subsidise the ones coming in for nearly nothing. That's been the crux of the problem since reopening.

Pricing has to reflect the cost to the business. Assuming some level of restrictions on capacity will be in place in the medium term, the cost of a passholder turning up is a very real one when a it means another guest willing to pay to enter is unable to do so as the capacity is taken. The cost to the business each time that happens (having taken a couple of quid maximum for that entry, pro rata, but losing £35+ each time) is not sustainable.

Passes come with huge benefits, so they should come with a large price to reflect this. Sell fewer at a higher price, protect capacity, everyone is a winner. Apart from those currently getting something for nearly nothing, but those are people you can afford to lose.
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How can you say "everyone is a winner" when some users would be priced out of going?

And less guests on quiet days would result in more closed days?
 
Mikw said:
How can you say "everyone is a winner" when some users would be priced out of going?

And less guests on quiet days would result in more closed days?
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Because those people 'priced out of going' bring little to nothing to the good of the park. Things have a worth, a value, people not able to recognise and realise that can't go, just like I can't go to Barbados for my holidays. If they can afford an AP they clearly can afford a day ticket, as that is the same or lower price, they just have to decide if that is worth it for them. They patently can afford a visit though.

Why would 'less guests' on quite days result in more closed quite days if the guests currently attending those days are not paying on the day to do so? The park doesn't make money if it's full of people who've got in for free*, so they should make an offer that's sufficient to turn a profit on ticket sales and is low enough to encourage off peak visits over peak times for some people. It's a really simple pricing concept used pretty much universally across leisure businesses.

*They do in some ways, by ripping off the people there with carparking and poor value upselling, those things should go.
 
Mikw said:
Which is all well and good but the massive price hike wouldn't guarantee any more new rides
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don’t think of it as a massive price hike. It’s the removal of a massive discount. The single park annual pass was £80-120 for years and years.

@pluk explains all the other reasoning behind sensible ticket prices. As they have said, a weekday full of pass holders does not make any money for the park.
 
But you can imagine the headlines in the Mail...
Towers increases prices by 100%, Overnight, in a Recession!!!
 
I bought a season pass last year for a two night stay on the resort, because it worked out cheaper than actually buying a multi-day ticket (I did not visit any other time of the year).

That should not be the case. A season pass should at least be 4x the price of a day ticket.
 
AstroDan said:
A premium MAP more £200-250.
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I thought the Premium MAP still was in that sort of price range? Mine cost £229 when I bought it in February.

How come people want the cheaper pricing removed, out of interest? 12 months’ admission with a day ticket is something that quite a few places do (for example, I went to the Black Country Living Museum yesterday, and they operate a similar thing), and people often used to complain that Towers’ prices were way too high, so I’m just wondering why people seemingly want the high prices back. Is it to do with the issues caused this season with reservations, or is it something else?
 
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