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Ride Access Pass Systems and Disabled Access (pre 2024)

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Blackhole_Sun said:
One shot on popular rides is the way forward. At Chessington today RAP queue looked much shorter and was cleared to the odd one or two coming down the queues for the last couple of hours.

Allowed the main queue to move nicely. There was one instance a woman in the RAP line went to the ops cabin to complain they couldn’t have a second ride, she help up the ride for 10 minutes. The main queue at the point she was complaining was 17……. With no stairs……

I am afraid that’s the way forward to allow everyone a fair chance at it from that queue. It also allowed us to get back row twice which we’ve never been able to do for obvious reasons.
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So you've never gone twice on a ride in a day?
 
imanautie said:
So you've never gone twice on a ride in a day?
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I have, but not on peak days normally. Possibly a maximum of twice. Then again whatever I do in the main queue is not going to affect RAP users. If anything a lengthy RAP line could impact my wait if they decide to run a full RAP train like they do on Vampire occasionally.

The point is, people in the RAP queue have been complaining regarding the length of waits. Now they complain about being limited. What is the solution? Wait longer or be guaranteed a ride?
 
Would it be less controversial if they said, "a typical guest will get on X rides today so you can use RAP a maximum of X times, but on any rides you wish"?
 
Alsty said:
Would it be less controversial if they said, "a typical guest will get on X rides today so you can use RAP a maximum of X times, but on any rides you wish"?
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Not really in practice as we all know merlin maths.
If they start checking rap photos, don't let people push staff to get them to admit without time out, enforce a strict you cancel and scan you get revoked unless management overrule (a known loQueue exploit) and a few other things, rap would go much smoother for all and the overall ride count would be accurate.
 
Alsty said:
Would it be less controversial if they said, "a typical guest will get on X rides today so you can use RAP a maximum of X times, but on any rides you wish"?
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Does not solve the problem as some parks people will all flock to one ride and you have complaints of big queues again.
 
RAP seems to be an issue in which there will always be someone dissatisfied. I think perhaps utilitarianism should be used here, though I know not how exactly.
 
Merlin lack the capability to develop and operate a genuinely need-based system.

This is not a criticism of Merlin, trying to do it accurately would be an enormous undertaking. As soon as you start trying to tailor the system to meet indvidual needs you're going to be dealing with a deluge of complaints from people who consider themselves miscategorised for whatever reason.

Means-testing is something the government has consistently proven themselves largely incapable of doing. Whilst it'd be somewhat amusing to see a theme park operator doing a better job of it I don't see it working out much better for them.
 
John said:
Merlin lack the capability to develop and operate a genuinely need-based system.

This is not a criticism of Merlin, trying to do it accurately would be an enormous undertaking. As soon as you start trying to tailor the system to meet indvidual needs you're going to be dealing with a deluge of complaints from people who consider themselves miscategorised for whatever reason.

Means-testing is something the government has consistently proven themselves largely incapable of doing. Whilst it'd be somewhat amusing to see a theme park operator doing a better job of it I don't see it working out much better for them.
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Conceptually it's what nimbus do with the access scheme!

From what I'm told Disney apparently do it via a "have a chat about needs"
 
The problem is coming back to Disney you also have:
  • A much more balanced theme park. Lots more entertainment, lots more food and retail options to keep people busy aside from just rides. People aren't just moving queue to queue wanting to get on a ride for something to do.
  • Rides with accessibility built into the main queue. This is much more difficult for Merlin to achieve with parks not built from the ground up on relatively flat land. The astronomical budgets for Disney's rides to build in that accessibility is on a whole other level too.
  • The technology in place to have proper virtual queues both for DAS and Lightning Lane for standard guests, and higher confidence from staff to deal with complaints/issues.
  • A higher level of staffing in place to manage DAS in the first place. Compare that to UK parks struggling to recruit even for basic park operations at present.
Obviously some of the above is in Merlin's power to resolve, but I don't think it's as easy as saying "Disney can do it, why can't Merlin" - it's a much more difficult problem to solve with the infrastructure they have in place at present. And going by what needs to be done to the parks as it is, I doubt the level of money will be available anytime soon.
 
Blackhole_Sun said:
If the queues are 5 minutes and you are able to walk ok round the queue lines then you have that option.
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Kinda makes a mockery of Chessington claiming it's a trial for peak only.
And not always, but it's besides the point if I personally could or couldn't do it, they are not actively discriminating against disabled guests who may need to use the disabled queues for whatever reason
 
imanautie said:
Kinda makes a mockery of Chessington claiming it's a trial for peak only.
And not always, but it's besides the point if I personally could or couldn't do it, they are not actively discriminating against disabled guests who may need to use the disabled queues for whatever reason
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OK, I don’t believe it’s discriminatory.

If they were limiting users to one shot purely because they have a disability then it would be discrimination. They are limiting RAP to one shot because there are too many going down those particular queue lines and RAP users are complaining that it’s taking too long to get on the ride when returning for their slot.

It doesn’t make much sense to limit to one shot on a non peak day, but if you mention the queues at Chessington a lot of the rides require use of stairs to get on/off. Vampire being one.

People who choose to use RAP on a non peak day who are able to walk and stand ok around the queue line just because they are entitled to it are part of the wider problem in my opinion.
 
Blackhole_Sun said:
OK, I don’t believe it’s discriminatory.

If they were limiting users to one shot purely because they have a disability then it would be discrimination. They are limiting RAP to one shot because there are too many going down those particular queue lines and RAP users are complaining that it’s taking too long to get on the ride when returning for their slot.

It doesn’t make much sense to limit to one shot on a non peak day, but if you mention the queues at Chessington a lot of the rides require use of stairs to get on/off. Vampire being one.

People who choose to use RAP on a non peak day who are able to walk and stand ok around the queue line just because they are entitled to it are part of the wider problem in my opinion.
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Sounds like someone forget ambulant wheelchair users are a thing
 
imanautie said:
Sounds like someone forget ambulant wheelchair users are a thing
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But they would come under the category of those who are not able to walk long distances and stand for even a reasonable amount of time.

Either way, as I said, with the rides at Chessington and the way they were designed in 90’s you would struggle anyway.
 
Blackhole_Sun said:
But they would come under the category of those who are not able to walk long distances and stand for even a reasonable amount of time.

Either way, as I said, with the rides at Chessington and the way they were designed in 90’s you would struggle anyway.
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There are people who need rap and would be less well off then their abled counterparts being restricted from using rap queues at this time, some who are perfectly safe and able to do the ride and evac if needed. (I'm trying to be vauge here as the specifics of someone's disability isn't the point I'm trying to make here).
 
imanautie said:
Kinda makes a mockery of Chessington claiming it's a trial for peak only.
And not always, but it's besides the point if I personally could or couldn't do it, they are not actively discriminating against disabled guests who may need to use the disabled queues for whatever reason
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When it comes to Merlin parks I really don't feel like anyone is being discriminated against these days. If anything they're trying too hard to cater for everyone. By shoveling all who are "disabled" under one category. I believe they need to differentiate between can't queue and doesn't like waiting in one.
 
RIPCorky said:
When it comes to Merlin parks I really don't feel like anyone is being discriminated against these days. If anything they're trying too hard to cater for everyone. By shoveling all who are "disabled" under one category. I believe they need to differentiate between can't queue and doesn't like waiting in one.
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They do, it's called do you need rap Vs do you not.
 
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