2023: General Discussion

[QTXAdsy]

@QTXAdsy it's really fascinating & so many paths of 'what if' to take via that train of thought!

It does seem that a perceived lack of competition has played a part in the poor upkeep of many areas & attractions at Merlin parks; people are still going to visit just because it's AT or Thorpe or Chessy or Legoland (don't forget how accessible passes make all the attractions for families too - there isn't another pass offering what Merlins does!) without them having to focus money on smaller details.

Yeah, you have to wonder if Merlin had given up on Chessington or if the UK theme park scene had a legit competitor to Merlin's control then its fascinating to see how well Merlin could have coped with having to have a rival challenging them.

No, I don’t believe this was ever a thing. A few years ago they did an Alton council where several times a year chosen enthusiasts would bet with Alton management and discuss areas for improvement.

Didn’t last long from what I recall….

Huh, unless one of the areas of improvement was enthusiasts asking the taboo question of telling them to build the Cross Valley Woodie which triggered Towers and told them to take a hike. TBH, I'd likely have done the same if I was in the park's boots but all the same, wonder what caused things to break down?

Tbf youde be surprised on how many companies relay on volunteers to do some of the less glamorous bits
From jcb to most preserved railways

Yep, think I mentioned this already. If anything, big businesses actually welcome volunteers doing some of the work they don't want to do or care about. I honestly wouldn't mind clearing up the Alton Manor queue line with some gardening tools or clear up the Smiler pit...a nice working holiday in the lovely surrounding Staffordshire countryside would be fruitful for the mind me thinks.

 

[blackholes crow]

Yeah, you have to wonder if Merlin had given up on Chessington or if the UK theme park scene had a legit competitor to Merlin's control then its fascinating to see how well Merlin could have coped with having to have a rival challenging them.

Huh, unless one of the areas of improvement was enthusiasts asking the taboo question of telling them to build the Cross Valley Woodie which triggered Towers and told them to take a hike. TBH, I'd likely have done the same if I was in the park's boots but all the same, wonder what caused things to break down?

Yep, think I mentioned this already. If anything, big businesses actually welcome volunteers doing some of the work they don't want to do or care about. I honestly wouldn't mind clearing up the Alton Manor queue line with some gardening tools or clear up the Smiler pit...a nice working holiday in the lovely surrounding Staffordshire countryside would be fruitful for the mind me thinks.

The gardens maybe a bit of a headache as there apart of the manor grounds and fall under the grade restrictions (im ok with watermills but gardens..well im not sure lol

 

[QTXAdsy]

The gardens maybe a bit of a headache as there apart of the manor grounds and fall under the grade restrictions (im ok with watermills but gardens..well im not sure lol

I understand that the Towers and gardens require special attention which I can understand why they'd do that though actually now that I think about it...maybe this plan for enthusiasts to have some voluntary work on the park fell through was that we're all forgetting that with with a good number of enthusiasts around the park during the closed season, there will always be one idiot who will leak out images of something like a SW project that should not be out, leaking out legit information for future attractions and who knows what else. No wonder the park would get cold feet if they couldn't trust these guys if this happened.

 

[Dave]

No, I don’t believe this was ever a thing. A few years ago they did an Alton council where several times a year chosen enthusiasts would bet with Alton management and discuss areas for improvement.

Didn’t last long from what I recall….

They have done that a few times but never consistently. I was on it one year (2011).

They where pleasant and listened and a few things came from it, and it did give an insight into some of the restrictions they had from budgets and H&S so it was vaguely interesting from my perspective. You did get a feeling that everyone who we met cared about the place, but that they just didn’t have the freedom to do everything they wanted to.

Not sure Towers actually get anything they can’t get from reading forums and social media from a “facts” perspective. But it did make us see the management as human and take in their perspective, and hopefully made the management see that not all geeks are weird and could argue a valid point.

 

[blackholes crow]

When i comes to maintenance best leave it to the engineers / those who know same with running of the industrial estate,
As for cleaning/ keeping the place clean a voluntary squad is usually the answer
So a crew of volunteers (passionate of the heritage and of the history of the towers is the only way) its a simple way over the closure of a season for the engineers do there thing and volunteers do there thing

 

[DistortAMG]

When i comes to maintenance best leave it to the engineers / those who know same with running of the industrial estate,
As for cleaning/ keeping the place clean a voluntary squad is usually the answer
So a crew of volunteers (passionate of the heritage and of the history of the towers is the only way) its a simple way over the closure of a season for the engineers do there thing and volunteers do there thing

Sorry. I disagree. Merlin are a multi million pound company.

Volunteers are not the answer.

Besides, who's gonna pay for the specialist equipment, skills and cleaning fluids that will no doubt be needed to clean certain areas of Alton Towers. Giving someone a bucket, scrubbing brush and a mouthful of motivation simply is not possible for most of the areas and attractions at Alton Towers.

Paying for a proper job is the only way, as a world leading attraction operator should be doing.

 

[Mikw]

You quoted me saying "improve facilities...staff transport", and I know it is not the easiest place to get to, that's why I said "improve staff transport".
None of the recruitment issues are insurmountable, staff are worth investing in.

Indeed they are, but they would've have to pay a lot more to that they do to make it worth working there given the transport costs. I love the place, at one time really wanted to work there, but could get nowhere near making it work financially.

 

[blackholes crow]

I understand that the Towers and gardens require special attention which I can understand why they'd do that though actually now that I think about it...maybe this plan for enthusiasts to have some voluntary work on the park fell through was that we're all forgetting that with with a good number of enthusiasts around the park during the closed season, there will always be one idiot who will leak out images of something like a SW project that should not be out, leaking out legit information for future attractions and who knows what else. No wonder the park would get cold feet if they couldn't trust these guys if this happened.

The Towers, gardens and court (food court are grade 2 listed)....which is a whole headache in its own right! The surrounding areas are under merlin so those are the areas worth caring about under law. The 3 (gardens.towers and court) are under management of the heritage institute so cared for by government ie what they say you do, or heavy fines are summed.

I only know that as my mill was dropped a £15k bill as I dropped an oak beam and replaced it with a pine one ( picky as hell) i know! But i got away with an RSJ covered in an oak covering (Depends on who surveys you lol)

Sorry. I disagree. Merlin are a multi million pound company.

Volunteers are not the answer.

Besides, who's gonna pay for the specialist equipment, skills and cleaning fluids that will no doubt be needed to clean certain areas of Alton Towers. Giving someone a bucket, scrubbing brush and a mouthful of motivation simply is not possible for most of the areas and attractions at Alton Towers.

Paying for a proper job is the only way, as a world leading attraction operator should be doing.

There will be plenty of helpers if the right safety systems are in place

 

[blackholes crow]

Sorry. I disagree. Merlin are a multi million pound company.

Volunteers are not the answer.

Besides, who's gonna pay for the specialist equipment, skills and cleaning fluids that will no doubt be needed to clean certain areas of Alton Towers. Giving someone a bucket, scrubbing brush and a mouthful of motivation simply is not possible for most of the areas and attractions at Alton Towers.

Paying for a proper job is the only way, as a world leading attraction operator should be doing.

There will be plenty of helpers if the right safety systems are in place,
If that's your mindset then there would be nothing of the past remembered it takes passion for the present to shine through or it'll just rot in the past

 

[AT86]

The towers, gardens and court (food court,are grade 2 listed)....which is a whole headache in its own right!!!! The surrounding areas are under merlin so those are the areas worth caring about under law the 3 (gardens.towers and court) are under management of the heritage institute so cared for be government ie what thay say you do... Or heavy fines are summed)

Huh?

 

[Craig]

The possibility of volunteers has been raised many, (many!) times in the past. Not withstanding the practical limitations of insurance etc, as others have pointed out this is a multi million pound company. If they want to run an attraction, they should run the whole attraction. That doesn't just mean getting numbers through the gates, that means looking after it and ensuring it remains presentable. No matter what our passion for the place is, there is no way people should be volunteering at a company that's run for profit and charging people almost £70 for the privilege of visiting.

There's plenty of charities and not for profits that are crying out for volunteers. If you want to give your spare time to somewhere, please, give them a shout - not Merlin.

Anyway, we seem to be getting way off topic about what's going on at the park this season. I think we can leave the subject of volunteering now and get back to discussing what's actually going on at the park in 2023.

 

[Auribus]

Wish I had some words of encouragement for the optimists but as intimated in the Future discussion, turning a corner thread, I'm not holding my breath in respect of the state of the park.

The sad fact is British Management has almost always been a joke. Perhaps a mixture of short-termism and asset stripping. The British Disease as it were and with management at all levels -- in public and private. As famously highlighted countless times, this has been the case all the way back from British Leyland and British car manufacture. And our productivity still lags behind our European counterparts, despite Thatcher's trade union and labour reforms of the 80's. A cultural thing unique to Brits and their penchant to just shrug their shoulders?

 

[Dave]

Wish I had some words of encouragement for the optimists but as intimated in the Future discussion, turning a corner thread, I'm not holding my breath in respect of the state of the park.

The sad fact is British Management has almost always been a joke. Perhaps a mixture of short-termism and asset stripping. The British Disease as it were and with management at all levels -- in public and private. As famously highlighted countless times, this has been the case all the way back from British Leyland and British car manufacture. And our productivity still lags behind our European counterparts, despite Thatcher's trade union and labour reforms of the 80's. A cultural thing unique to Brits and their penchant to just shrug their shoulders?

I think it’s too soon to tell, Merlin have had a completely new team in the last 6 months and even if they are amazing it will take time to correct the rot.

That said I’m not holding my breath.

 

[ThemeParkOwen]

Something a bit new guys!

Not open yet but just testing it out! I also saw one outside woodcutters in fountain square...looks yummy!

 

[Rob]

Is it me or is that photo out of focus? Either way, looks like a re-brand of existing slush stands, with them also selling other cold drinks.

 

[Danscott22]

If they are frozen cokes and fantas like you get in the Disney parks then count me in. Love those (although not if they are over priced )

 

[ThemeParkOwen]

Yeah they are frozen coles etc I'll try and find out pricing

 

[Mhoowee]

Something a bit new guys!

Not open yet but just testing it out! I also saw one outside woodcutters in fountain square...looks yummy!

Sold
I think that will sell LOADS of product this year.

 

[jon81uk]

I'm guessing they have switched from Starslush (which is owned by Nichols who make Vimto!) to Frozen Brothers (UK distributor of Frozen Coke and Fanta).

Or do they still have Starslush on park too?

 

[Mhoowee]

I think they switched to Coke for it.