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Thorpe Park: General Discussion

Smiley said:
Can't imagine any testing until the stalled train has been microscopically inspected for signs of defect as to why it stalled. As well as a full track inspection. I'd give it a week.
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I don’t think it’ll take that long. Normally, stalls tend to be resolved within a few days at most rather than more than a week. Both of Smiler’s stalls in opening year saw the ride back open within a matter of days, and many other Merlin rides’ stalls have seen them open within a couple of days of the event rather than more than a week after.

I see no reason why Hyperia would be any different.

While it’s good not to be overly confident, I would be quite surprised if Hyperia has not reopened by the beginning of next week. I would not be too surprised to see it reopen tomorrow after a bit of testing.
 
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Matt N said:
I don’t think it’ll take that long. Normally, stalls tend to be resolved within a few days at most rather than more than a week.

While it’s good not to be overly confident, I would be quite surprised if Hyperia has not reopened by the beginning of next week. I would not be too surprised to see it reopen tomorrow after a bit of testing.
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Where do I send the chimp when your prediction doesn’t happen Matt? 😉 this is the 3rd weekend we’ve planned to go and she’s starting to lose patience 😬
 
Matt N said:
I don’t think it’ll take that long. Normally, stalls tend to be resolved within a few days at most rather than more than a week.
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Yes but you need to know the reason... Weather/wind, no problem. Failed wheel/bearing, no problem. Unknown (or even lack of ballast) - BIG problem. Assume they have a spare train in the shed?? Running on 1 train is going to be horrendous!
 
Smiley said:
Yes but you need to know the reason... Weather/wind, no problem. Failed wheel/bearing, no problem. Unknown (or even lack of ballast) - BIG problem. Assume they have a spare train in the shed?? Running on 1 train is going to be horrendous!
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Who's to say they don't know the reason already?

Voltron stalled the evening before it was due to open. It opened the next day, albeit without the stalled train. Now whether Thorpe would want to operate Hyperia on one train is a different matter altogether!
 
Alix said:
Where do I send the chimp when your prediction doesn’t happen Matt? 😉 this is the 3rd weekend we’ve planned to go and she’s starting to lose patience 😬
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I’m not claiming to be the authority on this matter by any stretch, or even that what I’ve said is fact! It’s simply a theory I had, that’s all.

Personally, I think that the prediction of another week closed is overly pessimistic. Normally, stalls tend to be resolved within a few days, and I don’t see any reason why Hyperia would be any different, but that is just my prediction.

I’ve seen on Twitter that the whole train is now gone and only a small scaffolding structure on the track needs to be removed, so this should hopefully pave the way for testing later or tomorrow.
Smiley said:
Yes but you need to know the reason... Weather/wind, no problem. Failed wheel/bearing, no problem. Unknown (or even lack of ballast) - BIG problem. Assume they have a spare train in the shed?? Running on 1 train is going to be horrendous!
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As @Rob said, they may already know the reason. They may not feel that it needs any kind of major intervention, in the interim at least; sometimes these things just happen. We have little evidence to suggest that this wasn’t the case with Hyperia, as this is the only time it has stalled thus far.

Running on one train is far from ideal, but I feel it would be the lesser of two evils compared to keeping the ride closed in this case. Whether Thorpe feels the same way is up for debate, but that’s just my thinking.
 
Bowser said:
Running it on one train sounds grim. They've already had 70 minute queues consistently for multiple other rides this week and whilst it will somewhat alleviate those it would likely be regularly at 3 hours all day, just as we're getting hot weather too.
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That’s true, but the question is; is it the lesser of two evils compared to keeping it closed?

I think it is, but that’s just my thought. The park may think differently.
 
Scenes when the other train also stalls.

People travelling purely for Hyperia should with all common sense wait (if they can) until it’s running consistently, which will eventually happen. At the moment only setting themselves up for disappointment.
 
Ryan said:
Using the lift hill as a vital source of momentum isn't a sensible solution - unlike a launch, lift hills are frequently stopped at any point along it's length, and they take time to get up to speed after this has happened.
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Pity they can’t run a Boost Mode on Hyperia like Tornado at Bakken where the lift hill flings you off at a ridiculous speed. That would be something (although the ride would probably be over in about 15 seconds)!
 
On a random side note; why is that harder wheel compounds that make a ride run faster also make it run rougher? In my head, that would go against everything I know about energy transfers in physics, but I’ve often heard it said that harder wheel compounds make a ride run rougher.

With my physics head on, surely a rough/rattly ride transfers energy into rattling the train, which would leave less energy left over to be transferred into kinetic energy and therefore make the ride slower when it runs rougher/more rattly? Energy is not gained or lost and can only be transferred to different energy sources, so with that in mind, surely energy being channelled into rattling the train would take away kinetic energy and make the ride slower, no?

Also, wouldn’t wheels made of a harder material be less prone to developing things like small fractures on the exterior of the wheel, which I know to be a common cause of a slightly more rattly ride?
 
Bowser said:
Running it on one train sounds grim. They've already had 70 minute queues consistently for multiple other rides this week and whilst it will somewhat alleviate those it would likely be regularly at 3 hours all day, just as we're getting hot weather too.
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Yes, that. It's a recipe for disaster given the hot weather coming. As much as I'd like them to re-open quickly, the need to know the reason. And if it's a failed wheel/bearing, they need to know why. If nothing wrong with the train, they have far more problems.
 
Matt N said:
On a random side note; why is that harder wheel compounds that make a ride run faster also make it run rougher? In my head, that would go against everything I know about energy transfers in physics, but I’ve often heard it said that harder wheel compounds make a ride run rougher.
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Like suspension in cars.... It makes the ride smoother, but it expends energy. You've answered your own question 😉 Of course it's never so simple. I don't see wheel compounds solving this problem.

Ultimately..... A coaster than can't get a functioning empty train around the track is a borked coaster. Let's see if there was an issue with the train or leaves on the line!
 
Matt N said:
On a random side note; why is that harder wheel compounds that make a ride run faster also make it run rougher? In my head, that would go against everything I know about energy transfers in physics, but I’ve often heard it said that harder wheel compounds make a ride run rougher.

With my physics head on, surely a rough/rattly ride transfers energy into rattling the train, which would leave less energy left over to be transferred into kinetic energy and therefore make the ride slower when it runs rougher/more rattly? Energy is not gained or lost and can only be transferred to different energy sources, so with that in mind, surely energy being channelled into rattling the train would take away kinetic energy and make the ride slower, no?

Also, wouldn’t wheels made of a harder material be less prone to developing things like small fractures on the exterior of the wheel, which I know to be a common cause of a slightly more rattly ride?
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A harder wheel decreases rolling resistance, you should know this Matt having just passed your driving test and why it is important to make sure your tires are at the correct pressure.

More rolling resistance = more energy is lost.
Less rolling resistance = less energy is lost.

A softer or less inflated wheel increases the rolling resistance, increasing fuel consumption as the engine has to work harder to maintain a set speed. The same applies to a bicycle too, ever tried riding one with under inflated tires? It requires much more effort, as more of the energy to put in, is being absorbed by the increased rolling resistance. Exactly the same principles apply to a coaster too, the only difference being in a car the momentum forward is from an engine, in a coaster it is from potential energy. But the energy lost through rolling resistance is exactly the same.

Harder wheels / tires absorb less shock, so make the train rattle. The energy used to create a rattle is far far less than the energy used by increased rolling resistance due to softer wheels. This is why it doesn't work the way you think it does. The rattle per say doesn't come from the potential energy either in the same way, it is more transferred, you go over a bump, that bump will transfer across and rattle the train, hard to explain. Think of it like going over a pothole, you haven't used any more fuel than normal to go over the pothole than what you would usually use, but the car has rattled like hell as you went over it. Similar principles.

My cycle rattles like hell when I have the tires inflated really high which you could liken to hard compound wheels on a coaster, but the bike is WAY easier to cycle, and it maintains a higher speed for much longer when I stop peddling.

EDIT: One more reply, I would say a harder wheel would be more prone to cracks as the energy isn't being absorbed and toning the force down. The very reason why large structures such as coasters, bridges and skyscrapers are designed to flex and move with the weather and from live loading forces applied to them, is so that they don't break and snap, causing catastrophic failures. Much better to move and absorb the energy and transfer or dissipate it in a more friendly way to the structure.

The most impressive video in action of this principle, is this video of HUGE skyscrapers swaying quite heavily in the 2011 Japanese earthquake. The buildings are swaying hugely to absorb the energy of the earth quake, they are designed to do this, if they did not do this, they would have collapsed out right - kind of like how a hard coaster wheel would crack over time due to not absorbing the energy. These buildings stand strong to this day. No structural damage occurred, whereas building that were designed to be more ridged and 'hard' have collapsed time and time again in earth quakes with half of the magnitude that this one in Japan had.

From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB2jgJJG2is
 
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Given that we’ve stalled in June and after a lot of running in, I don’t think wheel compounds would be enough to make this thing reliable year-round but hopefully I’m wrong and it is that easy to fix.

If not, bring on launch installation or re-tracking….
 
Tom said:
Given that we’ve stalled in June and after a lot of running in, I don’t think wheel compounds would be enough to make this thing reliable year-round but hopefully I’m wrong and it is that easy to fix.

If not, bring on launch installation or re-tracking….
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I think people are getting ahead of themselves a little bit, the coaster has not even properly run it yet. It will speed up naturally as components wear in. I bet that hasn't fully happened yet.

Not specific to you Tom, but it makes me laugh, the ride has stalled a few times, not an uncommon happening, and now the talk of the town across a large margin of people is that it needs a launch or a re-track....this is just another thing in a long list of events from this coaster that have amazed me and worried me about society at the same time. I do not mean that at all in a nasty way either.
 
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Matt N said:
On a random side note; why is that harder wheel compounds that make a ride run faster also make it run rougher? In my head, that would go against everything I know about energy transfers in physics, but I’ve often heard it said that harder wheel compounds make a ride run rougher.

With my physics head on, surely a rough/rattly ride transfers energy into rattling the train, which would leave less energy left over to be transferred into kinetic energy and therefore make the ride slower when it runs rougher/more rattly? Energy is not gained or lost and can only be transferred to different energy sources, so with that in mind, surely energy being channelled into rattling the train would take away kinetic energy and make the ride slower, no?

Also, wouldn’t wheels made of a harder material be less prone to developing things like small fractures on the exterior of the wheel, which I know to be a common cause of a slightly more rattly ride?
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i'll try to explain each pointy simply:
harder wheels are able to losse less energy as you aren't using energy to compress the wheel, for an extreme example think about it like a very deflated football, something that is very soft and if you try to kick it it will absorb alot of the energy like an air bag and not go far, but a much more inflated football will bounce and not absorb as much of the energy.

harder wheels crack more probably because they are more brittle and are less able to absorb the energy (if you drop a glass cup it will break, but a plastic cup can deform when it hits the ground then pop back, meaning it suffers no damage)
 
DistortAMG said:
Not specific to you Tom, but it makes me laugh, the ride has stalled a few times, not an uncommon happening, and now the talk of the town across a large margin of people is that it needs a launch or a re-track....this is just another thing in a long list of events from this coaster that have amazed me and worried me about society at the same time. I do not mean that at all in a nasty way either.
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With regard to the bolded; it has in fact only stalled once at this point in time, which would corroborate your argument further!

As for the physics explanations; thank you all for the in-depth posts. That makes a lot more sense to me now!
 
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