Existential Crisis? Towers and it's future

[Jb85]

It's basically confirmed that for anything new Chessie need to replace existing attractions. Hence why Wild Asia and Mexicana are both on the chopping block on their long term plan.

Doubt there's much land available beyond their current borders either.

It’ll be the zoo.

But ultimately a fully refreshed and refurbed Chessie with a few new coasters here and there doesn’t really need much more land.

 

[Jb85]

Chessington is never going to expand rapidly of the like you seem to be suggesting.

Yes, they’ll get investment, but there’s no way it’s going to become bigger or “better” than Thorpe/Alton.

Chessie is mostly for younger guests.

Thorpe is targeted at teenagers and young adults.

Alton is the mix between the two. Legoland is also a mix but with its IP it’s always going to market for the younger crowd over the families but it is actually an everyone can ride the rides together park.

Universal is touted as this holy grail that’ll end all other UK theme parks. It won’t happen. Universal tickets will be far beyond what we pay for a Merlin park. People will still buy MAP as it’ll be waaaay cheaper and a more rinse and repeat visit type of an affair. Universal will be a massive treat every few years type place (for anyone who routinely visits parks). Yes, it’ll most likely be amazing but it’s pricing won’t be accessible like the Merlin parks.

How do we know the business plan for Chessie
I can see it becoming a more all round park like Alton…..

 

[VerticalLoop123]

To preface this I am someone who does often complain about towers and their operations. I often feel entitled to an opinion on towers because of how long I’ve been visiting, the amount of my hard earned cash I’ve spent at the park over the years and I’ve got a brick in the entrance plaza (used to also have one share in Merlin until they floated)! Anyone who’s visited the park with me knows I’m fond to a grumble- often in a jokey way- often bringing in my brick into the argument. One thing that’s always drawn me to this forum is the un-sugar-coated look at towers and of course the lighthearted look at towers and its history.

I understand operations have been awful recently - I scrolled through some of the recent reviews on trip advisor and they are awful. All mentioning similar frustrations that we’ve shared on here. Ultimately I think the way towers has gone the people visit just to go on the big rides- unlike say Disneyland Paris where people visit for the whole experience, not necessarily the rides. The way the park has been skewed over the past 10+ years is to focus on the big rides, not the wider experiences, which is no wonder that people are frustrated when they queue 2hrs for a ride for it to break down with no compensation. The Aramark prison food also gets a lot of mentions on trip advisor as well.

However I do think we are missing some of the positive things that have been brought in recently.
- Oktoberfest is an excellent addition as has become my favourite event of the year. The entertainment is a laugh and the tent this year made it more weather-proof. Even though my wallet was crying after the very expensive pints i couldn’t fault the performers and the atmosphere on the lawns.
- The Curse of Alty Mans - reviving the rather depressing Duel into something with wit, charm and some solid effects. The atmosphere in this whole area with the actors has really brought something new.
- Bringing back Hex- yes I do think now the vault looks straight out of Blackpool but investing money into this well loved classic is a positive move. When I went on last (admittedly I did start it for the lols) but the vault sequence got a round of applause.
- Heritage Tours - sharing more of the fascinating history. The gardens have been looking better this year planting wise as well.
- New scarefest tents- I can see this bringing positive change into the next few Scarefest. The shows on the main stage as well are very well produced.
- Nemesis reborn- investing in retracking and elongating the life of this well- loved ride. One of my favourite things this year has been the buzz around the ride- seeing families taking their children on the ride and speaking about how much they loved the original. I understand the military theme may not be for everyone, but the themeing looks excellent - particularly in the dark with the searchlight and illuminated helicopter. The live actors in the area have breathed life back into area.

Yes, changes do need to take place, but I don’t think the place is on the downwards spiral. Just some of positives from this year from a self-confessed towers moaner! Now.. where’s my free fastrack?!

 

[AltonLover123]

To preface this I am someone who does often complain about towers and their operations. I often feel entitled to an opinion on towers because of how long I’ve been visiting, the amount of my hard earned cash I’ve spent at the park over the years and I’ve got a brick in the entrance plaza (used to also have one share in Merlin until they floated)! Anyone who’s visited the park with me knows I’m fond to a grumble- often in a jokey way- often bringing in my brick into the argument. One thing that’s always drawn me to this forum is the un-sugar-coated look at towers and of course the lighthearted look at towers and its history.

I understand operations have been awful recently - I scrolled through some of the recent reviews on trip advisor and they are awful. All mentioning similar frustrations that we’ve shared on here. Ultimately I think the way towers has gone the people visit just to go on the big rides- unlike say Disneyland Paris where people visit for the whole experience, not necessarily the rides. The way the park has been skewed over the past 10+ years is to focus on the big rides, not the wider experiences, which is no wonder that people are frustrated when they queue 2hrs for a ride for it to break down with no compensation. The Aramark prison food also gets a lot of mentions on trip advisor as well.

However I do think we are missing some of the positive things that have been brought in recently.
- Oktoberfest is an excellent addition as has become my favourite event of the year. The entertainment is a laugh and the tent this year made it more weather-proof. Even though my wallet was crying after the very expensive pints i couldn’t fault the performers and the atmosphere on the lawns.
- The Curse of Alty Mans - reviving the rather depressing Duel into something with wit, charm and some solid effects. The atmosphere in this whole area with the actors has really brought something new.
- Bringing back Hex- yes I do think now the vault looks straight out of Blackpool but investing money into this well loved classic is a positive move. When I went on last (admittedly I did start it for the lols) but the vault sequence got a round of applause.
- Heritage Tours - sharing more of the fascinating history. The gardens have been looking better this year planting wise as well.
- New scarefest tents- I can see this bringing positive change into the next few Scarefest. The shows on the main stage as well are very well produced.
- Nemesis reborn- investing in retracking and elongating the life of this well- loved ride. One of my favourite things this year has been the buzz around the ride- seeing families taking their children on the ride and speaking about how much they loved the original. I understand the military theme may not be for everyone, but the themeing looks excellent - particularly in the dark with the searchlight and illuminated helicopter. The live actors in the area have breathed life back into area.

Yes, changes do need to take place, but I don’t think the place is on the downwards spiral. Just some of positives from this year from a self-confessed towers moaner! Now.. where’s my free fastrack?!

Agreed. Also, the VIP track walks and Nemesis events were incredibly well received (apart from the first blip with the filming rules).

 

[PhalanaxOperativeA1127]

It's a shame what's happened this year; we, as a family, sadly won't be visiting next year and will be taking a year off for the 1st time since covid forced our hand, instead spending our money on a trip to Disney Paris.

Hopefully they can get things sorted next year, but after the last few months of the park quickly detoriating, it doesn't leave much willingness to want to visit.

I rather expect many others will be doing the same, and not coming back next year.

 

[Matt.GC]

I can't think of any other time that the experience has been as poor as it is now, and has been the last couple of years, with this season being even worse than last. It's abundantly clear that there's plenty of attractions and infrastructure reaching end of life in the next decade or so, and that it's a battle to stave off that decline as it is at the moment.

Although there are varying levels of acceptance of the decline, from embracing it to trying not to think about it, it's normalisation doesn't mean that it's not happening. A couple of steps forward don't cancel out the evidential 10 that have been taken backwards, no matter what kind of positive spin can be put on it.

Pain relief and certain exercises make my bad back feel a lot of better. But the lumbar disk is still knackered, and it's still going to get worse as I age.

 

[Matt N]

This year has been an interesting year, and perhaps quite indicative of the intentions of "new Merlin" under Scott O'Neil, Bianca Sammut and the like. The thing I find very interesting is that there seems to be a stark divide between CAPEX and OPEX; it's almost like talking about two wholly different companies in this sense.

Merlin, to be fair, have been quite forthcoming with CAPEX as of late. I don't think they've ever been overly bad at CAPEX (maybe aside from that lull in the late 2010s/early 2020s post-Wicker Man), but it does seem like the company is pumping quite a bit into its parks in terms of CAPEX lately. But OPEX is a wholly different story; towards the latter part of this season in particular, it seems as though OPEX has been cut to the bone. With staggered openings, various closures and other such cuts, it seems as though the OPEX budget is possibly spread thinner than ever in Merlin's parks.

I feel that this OPEX neglect could come to be highly problematic, and arguably already is in some regards. Based on anecdotal reports, ride availability at Alton Towers in particular has been worse than I've ever known it in the latter half of 2024, and the situation at Alton Towers over half term, if it is a sign of the long term picture from here on out, proves the current availability situation to be absolutely untenable. If something does not change in this regard, I think the park could be in real trouble in the years to come.

In some regards, I do think some of the issues are oversold on here at times. And to an extent, I think Merlin's CAPEX strengths could alleviate some of the issues through refurbishment or replacement of stock in the years to come, as has happened routinely for Alton Towers' whole life as a theme park. I do think that the numerous positive developments of recent years are worth noting. But I feel that ride availability is an issue where the negative discourse is wholly justified, and the OPEX cuts in general do paint a concerning picture going forward.

 

[Blackrock]

I’ll tell you what’s changed.
Universal

In general - Universal will bring visitors to the UK - no doubt. It’s likely those visitors will do ‘London’ - most will stay in London.

Thorpe is too small a footprint to really expand. Which leaves Alton or Chessie. Alton is a nightmare to get to from London.

So the logical investment to capitalise on additional London based visitors is - invest in Chessie

Ironic really considering four years ago it looked the most likely for the chop.
But I really do believe the rumours we heard not all that long ago of £100m for Chessie
I also think it’s now the most likely of the parks to see innovation in coaster designs which we used to see at Alton.

I disagree. Foreigners love quintessentially British things like old buildings, old castles, stately homes.

They love it because Americans/Canadians etc don’t have them.

Alton fills this gap because what you’re seeing isn’t some paper mache castle, it’s a real old stately home set in stunning gardens.

They just need to get better with transport. From London to Stoke it’s only 90 minutes on a train, a quick/cheap taxi isn’t an issue.

If you’re driving you only have to go up the M1, down the A50.

Yes the roads past that are windy, country roads but it’s not the back end and beyond.

 

[Islander]

I disagree. Foreigners love quintessentially British things like old buildings, old castles, stately homes.

They love it because Americans/Canadians etc don’t have them.

Alton fills this gap because what you’re seeing isn’t some paper mache castle, it’s a real old stately home set in stunning gardens.

They just need to get better with transport. From London to Stoke it’s only 90 minutes on a train, a quick/cheap taxi isn’t an issue.

If you’re driving you only have to go up the M1, down the A50.

Yes the roads past that are windy, country roads but it’s not the back end and beyond.

I could be wrong, but I’d have thought that any visitors from abroad wanting castles, stately homes etc would very much look towards the National Trust and English Heritage, rather than a theme park.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

I could be wrong, but I’d have thought that any visitors from abroad wanting castles, stately homes etc would very much look towards the National Trust and English Heritage, rather than a theme park.

There are even, shockingly, some still used by actual royals (sadly). Buckingham Palace, The Tower of London, Hampton Court and Windsor Castle all within an hour of each other at most. Extremely, and conveniently located.

Merlin also happen, by chance, to also own many attractions near these American / Canadian honey traps too.

 

[Blackrock]

I could be wrong, but I’d have thought that any visitors from abroad wanting castles, stately homes etc would very much look towards the National Trust and English Heritage, rather than a theme park.

I’m talking about theme park fans.

You go to Disney you get the fake, you come to Alton you get the real deal.

Disney would kill to have something like Alton.

 

[Jb85]

I disagree. Foreigners love quintessentially British things like old buildings, old castles, stately homes.

They love it because Americans/Canadians etc don’t have them.

Alton fills this gap because what you’re seeing isn’t some paper mache castle, it’s a real old stately home set in stunning gardens.

They just need to get better with transport. From London to Stoke it’s only 90 minutes on a train, a quick/cheap taxi isn’t an issue.

If you’re driving you only have to go up the M1, down the A50.

Yes the roads past that are windy, country roads but it’s not the back end and beyond.

I live in an American tourist hotspot.
They spend a day round here then go back to London

 

[rob666]

I’m talking about theme park fans.

You go to Disney you get the fake, you come to Alton you get the real deal.

Disney would kill to have something like Alton.

Are you trying to say Merlin haven't?
Access to the actual Towers is pretty poor, as has the upkeep.
Locked out of the Towers and having them used for prop storage, not great.
Personally, I think disney might have done a better job of it.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

You go to Disney you get the fake, you come to Alton you get the real deal.

But you don't. You get a folly. The "stately home" was only in use for about 100 years, none of which is really relevant to the current theme park.

Whilst it is a real building, made out of brick and stone, it was every bit of a radical's fancy and folly to entertain and dazzle the masses, when it was designed and built by Pugin, as Disneyland.

"The real deal" stuff is the story we tell ourselves when we want to believe/kid that Alton Towers is better than Disneyland. It's the same "well it's every bit as good as Waitrose" crap you hear from Aldi shoppers.

 

[Islander]

I’m talking about theme park fans.

You go to Disney you get the fake, you come to Alton you get the real deal.

Disney would kill to have something like Alton.

They really, really wouldn’t lol.

Theme park fans will definitely find the ‘fake’ structures abundant at Disney far more immersive and captivating than the ‘real’ structure at Alton.

 

[Matt.GC]

Alton Towers is definitely an incredible place. I wouldn't love it as much if it wasn't. It many ways, it can't be any more representative of the UK as a whole:

Naturally beautiful, green and pleasant land.

Historic architecture.

Aging infrastructure.

NIMBY's.

Over crowded trains dating back to the 80's that fail to get you to your destination in a timely manner.

The stench of long-term decline everywhere.

Additional up charges creeping in on things that were once free at the point of use once you'd paid your dues.

Falling significantly behind international counterparts, with it's best days behind it.

Poorly run and suffering cuts for over a decade.

New regime in charge spending more money, but not enough investment cash coming in to fix it properly.

The pretence that it can it can still sit at the table with the big boys and girls, purely based on past glories.

Plenty of flag waving fans pretending otherwise.

 

[dave___]

I'd add Flambards onto that list as well. It's a smaller park but it's had an absolute train wreck of a year. I think they are a gonner.

PB has many problems but in the wider context they still have a decent lineup. One of the parks on this list will close in the next few seasons, it's inevitable.

Blaming you for today's announcement over in the Obscure parks thread...